Subscription Drive: Status report
We're not going to make it..
Thursday, October 13, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
If you click HERE you can see WinCustomize's traffic details. Most sites keep this kind of thing secret but we tend to operate as transparently as possible.
The key figures are: 788,000 visits per day average. 5.5 MILLION visitors this past week.
13 days into the WinCustomize subscription drive, we have a total of 345 people who have re-subscribed or subscribed new. Quite a few of them are individuals who re-subscribed long before they needed to or bought a subscription for someone else. That means a very small number of people are doing a lot of the heavy lifting for the site. 345 subscriptions means $6,900 in revenue (thank you to those who have subsribed).
As you can imagine, running a site that gets 5.5 million visitors every week is very expensive. Especially when it's on a download site. For instance, Kol's VistaXP skin has been downloaded about 2,000 times today. It's a 2MB file. That means 4,000 megabytes (4 Gigabytes) of bandwidth were used just for that one skin. So as you can imagine, the bandwidth costs of this site are immense. Moreover, as skinning gets more popular and more users interact, we need full-time people to code and manage the site. Thank goodness we have volunteers who actually run the site and a day to day basis or else there'd be no WinCustomize.
Which brings us back to the start of this news item. WinCustomize costs probably around $300,000 a year to run. That's bandwidth + salaries. Anyone in the Internet business will tell you wer're running the site on a shoe-string. A site in the top 3000 or so most popular in the world would typically cost far more. deviantART, for instance, has around two-dozen employees working just on that site.
So what happens to WinCustomize when October 31 comes and we're not even close to our goal? Well, for skinners, subscribers, and SD Customers the answer is, not much. Skinners and subscribers are going to get new stuff -- we have a Halloween skin in the works for instance and there will be subscriber-only content made in the future.
For regular users it's going to be a different story. Users are going to have to start creating accounts to access skins made that month. We'll also have to put in some code to make it more difficult for someone to simply create a duplicate account. This will likely drive away some users -- which will be part of the goal.
In the midterm, the site will begin focusing more and more on the community with the community defined as people who care about WinCustomize. That would be the skinners, the subscribers, and SD customers. People not in that category will still be able to do many things on the site, but it will be much more restrictive.
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CDOB
Reply #122 Saturday, October 15, 2005 3:21 PM
Reply #122 Saturday, October 15, 2005 3:21 PM
I want to subscibe to wincustomize...but Iam saving up for the new windowblinds 5 I will see if I can do both I do love all that is offered
Biglee1
Reply #123 Saturday, October 15, 2005 3:22 PM
I'm not sure what you mean. But remember the point of the thread is to throw some ideas around to try and help WC provide the excellent services it does now. I'm not saying i'm right just trying to help!
Reply #123 Saturday, October 15, 2005 3:22 PM
| One idea (other than introducing a tiered subs package) could be to "tax" really popular skins. So say once a skin reaches a 1000 downloads in a set period of time you could add a cost to download that skin. Maybe you could share any monies made by the download with the author. That way you wouldn't alienate skinners, but you get something back for the bandwidth used by that skin. It would'nt need to be big money, maybe something like $1.50 per download. Remember that it is artist's work and his efforts which made a skin popular. Some skins even take months to get finalized so how can other's work can be used for making profits and if a person pays $20 for supporting WC then asking addition $$$ for using the high-rated stuff is completely un-justice with him/her. The ONLY purpose of this Subscription drive is to reduce the weight on WC and SD being caused by the freeloaders and by those who think WC as a Free HOT CACK available to every one ... !!!! |
I'm not sure what you mean. But remember the point of the thread is to throw some ideas around to try and help WC provide the excellent services it does now. I'm not saying i'm right just trying to help!
MSethWeisberg
Reply #124 Saturday, October 15, 2005 5:58 PM
Reply #124 Saturday, October 15, 2005 5:58 PM
This is my new idea on saving bandwidth/space for WC. Stop being a place for none Stardock products for downloads. No more downloads for kapsules/litestep/rainlendar/screensavers/screenshots/winamp/winmedia/firefox/etc..
Instead become a Stardock/WC hosting site only. Can you imagine what can be saved by removing those sections? Now I know that only a few months ago we all talked about expanding the sections to include IM programs and such but when push comes to shove....you have to make tough choices.
Instead become a Stardock/WC hosting site only. Can you imagine what can be saved by removing those sections? Now I know that only a few months ago we all talked about expanding the sections to include IM programs and such but when push comes to shove....you have to make tough choices.
BX
Reply #125 Saturday, October 15, 2005 6:26 PM
WC is NOT SD's Skins Gallery, it is a Skinning Community dedicated to let its community members to customize Windows in a safe and un-harm way ... !!!!
If those free-loaders would have gone, WC Community would be better served ...
btw thanks for idea ... atleast you are thinking
Reply #125 Saturday, October 15, 2005 6:26 PM
| This is my new idea on saving bandwidth/space for WC. Stop being a place for none Stardock products for downloads. No more downloads for kapsules/litestep/rainlendar/screensavers/screenshots/winamp/winmedia/firefox/etc.. |
WC is NOT SD's Skins Gallery, it is a Skinning Community dedicated to let its community members to customize Windows in a safe and un-harm way ... !!!!
If those free-loaders would have gone, WC Community would be better served ...
btw thanks for idea ... atleast you are thinking
_02
Reply #126 Saturday, October 15, 2005 6:34 PM
I don't like that idea at all. There are too many great skinners that make wonderful skins for these progs. It is an asset to be able to get the skins for the progs you mentioned along with those for Stardock. I for one would be very disappointed if that happened. That is one of the things that makes this a great site. Being able to download skins for all your needs, in one place is a great thing. Perhaps if they were skins that were seldom downloaded I could see it, but the skins you mentioned are a big part of this site. Let's not take away from those who are members so those who are not can continue to download for free. Cutting back on bandwidth use by whatever means is a far better idea as well as promoting memberships. When someone has a choice to download for free, there is no need to join. Take that away, and if they want the skins that are offered here then they can become members or go somewhere else for their needs. Although they won't find the same variety and quality everywhere, they will be able to get skins without using up non supported bandwidth here.
And lets all face it. Just because we buy the progs doesn't mean we bought the bandwidth to download the skins for them too. After all, do we get free gas when we buy a car, or free electricity to run the airconditioner we bought for our home? No, of course we don't.
Reply #126 Saturday, October 15, 2005 6:34 PM
| Stop being a place for none Stardock products for downloads |
I don't like that idea at all. There are too many great skinners that make wonderful skins for these progs. It is an asset to be able to get the skins for the progs you mentioned along with those for Stardock. I for one would be very disappointed if that happened. That is one of the things that makes this a great site. Being able to download skins for all your needs, in one place is a great thing. Perhaps if they were skins that were seldom downloaded I could see it, but the skins you mentioned are a big part of this site. Let's not take away from those who are members so those who are not can continue to download for free. Cutting back on bandwidth use by whatever means is a far better idea as well as promoting memberships. When someone has a choice to download for free, there is no need to join. Take that away, and if they want the skins that are offered here then they can become members or go somewhere else for their needs. Although they won't find the same variety and quality everywhere, they will be able to get skins without using up non supported bandwidth here.
And lets all face it. Just because we buy the progs doesn't mean we bought the bandwidth to download the skins for them too. After all, do we get free gas when we buy a car, or free electricity to run the airconditioner we bought for our home? No, of course we don't.
Kylhwch
Reply #127 Saturday, October 15, 2005 6:57 PM
Reply #127 Saturday, October 15, 2005 6:57 PM
My .02 - I'm a SD customer. I bought Object Desktop, Natural Desktop, & Object Dock Plus in the last few months. I'm not a subscriber.
1) I'd be more likely to subscribe if I knew the money was getting shared with the actual artists. I understand SD is providing the bandwidth - but if the artists weren't providing the free goods, it'd be game over. I'd be more likely to subscribe if I knew all the artists were getting even a little something as well.
2) If I were King, I'd limit downloads to one free skin/wallpaper/widget/whatever a day. Maybe even break it up so every Monday there's a free Blind, Wednesday's Wallpaper Day, and so on. That would still be four or five free WB skins a month, for example. It would cut down the daily traffic but still encourage non-subscribers (ie - Future Customers) to come back on a regular basis. You'd need a customer/subscriber account to access the site and go hog wild.
Honestly, I think Wincustomize's open policy is the exception, not the rule. I would think most people on the net would understand perfectly if you only offered limited access to non-subscriber.
Oh - you know what else would be fun for subscribers? A Collector's limited edition, subscribers-only skin. Have a collector's skin each year debut on Jan 1. Then retire the old one each year and never offer it again. So that regular subscribers can build up a collection of WB skins just for themselves. Well I think it would be fun, anyway,
1) I'd be more likely to subscribe if I knew the money was getting shared with the actual artists. I understand SD is providing the bandwidth - but if the artists weren't providing the free goods, it'd be game over. I'd be more likely to subscribe if I knew all the artists were getting even a little something as well.
2) If I were King, I'd limit downloads to one free skin/wallpaper/widget/whatever a day. Maybe even break it up so every Monday there's a free Blind, Wednesday's Wallpaper Day, and so on. That would still be four or five free WB skins a month, for example. It would cut down the daily traffic but still encourage non-subscribers (ie - Future Customers) to come back on a regular basis. You'd need a customer/subscriber account to access the site and go hog wild.
Honestly, I think Wincustomize's open policy is the exception, not the rule. I would think most people on the net would understand perfectly if you only offered limited access to non-subscriber.
Oh - you know what else would be fun for subscribers? A Collector's limited edition, subscribers-only skin. Have a collector's skin each year debut on Jan 1. Then retire the old one each year and never offer it again. So that regular subscribers can build up a collection of WB skins just for themselves. Well I think it would be fun, anyway,
Bash2cool
Reply #128 Saturday, October 15, 2005 8:15 PM
Reply #128 Saturday, October 15, 2005 8:15 PM
you know i actually read this whole article and said to myself.....:
1. Why not take out the exiled users....
2. lower the prices....
3. i don't know...
1. Why not take out the exiled users....
2. lower the prices....
3. i don't know...
CerebroJD
Reply #129 Saturday, October 15, 2005 8:52 PM
They are exiled for a reason. Besides, thats MORE traffic, and one of the goals is to get LESS traffic.
I do like the idea of a 'downloads only' subscription for 10 bucks...
Reply #129 Saturday, October 15, 2005 8:52 PM
| 1. Why not take out the exiled users.... |
| 2. lower the prices.... |
Andy02369
Reply #130 Saturday, October 15, 2005 9:11 PM
I don't agree with that, the artists are using WC's bandwidth to transfer their skins and using WC's space to store their skins. If the artists wanted money for their skin(s), then the should get their own site and sell their skin(s) on it.
Anyway, I might subscribe after thinking about it. The only thing is that $19.95 is not too much money, but being 16, I can think of other ways to spend that money. Plus, I've never bought a subscription for a website before. I've been to this site for a very long time, and I've seen that it's a really good place to be.
Reply #130 Saturday, October 15, 2005 9:11 PM
| 1) I'd be more likely to subscribe if I knew the money was getting shared with the actual artists. I understand SD is providing the bandwidth - but if the artists weren't providing the free goods, it'd be game over. I'd be more likely to subscribe if I knew all the artists were getting even a little something as well. |
I don't agree with that, the artists are using WC's bandwidth to transfer their skins and using WC's space to store their skins. If the artists wanted money for their skin(s), then the should get their own site and sell their skin(s) on it.
Anyway, I might subscribe after thinking about it. The only thing is that $19.95 is not too much money, but being 16, I can think of other ways to spend that money. Plus, I've never bought a subscription for a website before. I've been to this site for a very long time, and I've seen that it's a really good place to be.
lgspence
Reply #131 Saturday, October 15, 2005 9:33 PM
Reply #131 Saturday, October 15, 2005 9:33 PM
Would be nice to have complete suite's for subscribers only,maybe would tempt people to get a subscription.
Threi
Reply #132 Saturday, October 15, 2005 9:36 PM
i dont agree with THAT, i agree that if the skinners stopped uploading skins then the future of this site would definately change
for another time i repeat: WINCUSTOMIZE IS NOT THE ONLY SKINNING SITE ON THE NET - KEEP THAT IN MIND PLEASSSSEEEEE
Reply #132 Saturday, October 15, 2005 9:36 PM
| I don't agree with that, the artists are using WC's bandwidth to transfer their skins and using WC's space to store their skins. If the artists wanted money for their skin(s), then the should get their own site and sell their skin(s) on it. |
i dont agree with THAT, i agree that if the skinners stopped uploading skins then the future of this site would definately change
for another time i repeat: WINCUSTOMIZE IS NOT THE ONLY SKINNING SITE ON THE NET - KEEP THAT IN MIND PLEASSSSEEEEE
Erk.
Reply #133 Saturday, October 15, 2005 11:29 PM
[I removed the capitals ...don't like to shout ...sensitive ears ]
...No it's not. You're correct in that statement. However, it is the largest collection of skins for multiple apps ~all in the one place.
I'd much prefer to visit 2 or 3 main sites for all my skinning needs, than to trawl all over the net looking for skins. Plus, apart from a few smaller sites [which are wonderful sites] [SkinArtistry, Skinning.net Skinbase, etc] ...this site also has a great community, which is somewhat of a rarity for such a large site.
Skinners won't ever stop uploading their skins here, because thats not the issue being raised in this thread. Skinners are contributing to the site, therefore justifying their being here.
Reply #133 Saturday, October 15, 2005 11:29 PM
| WinCustomize is not the only skinning site on the net |
[I removed the capitals ...don't like to shout ...sensitive ears
]...No it's not. You're correct in that statement. However, it is the largest collection of skins for multiple apps ~all in the one place.
I'd much prefer to visit 2 or 3 main sites for all my skinning needs, than to trawl all over the net looking for skins. Plus, apart from a few smaller sites [which are wonderful sites] [SkinArtistry, Skinning.net Skinbase, etc] ...this site also has a great community, which is somewhat of a rarity for such a large site.
Skinners won't ever stop uploading their skins here, because thats not the issue being raised in this thread. Skinners are contributing to the site, therefore justifying their being here.
MrDarkWolf
Reply #134 Sunday, October 16, 2005 3:53 AM
Reply #134 Sunday, October 16, 2005 3:53 AM
I have been a visitor of WinCustomize for the last 2 or 3 years. Every year I send off my money order to renew my OD subscription. Being handicapped, I don't get out as much as I like, so my computer is my means of expression. Without OD and WinCustomize ... I would not enjoy the many themes, WB Skins, etc that I have downloaded from this site.
Will I subscribe? Damn Straight I will. While cash is tight, I would help out someone in need when I can. WinCustomize has made my day a little easier to live with ... A little less pain... a lot more joy...
So people add your subscriptions ....
Will I subscribe? Damn Straight I will. While cash is tight, I would help out someone in need when I can. WinCustomize has made my day a little easier to live with ... A little less pain... a lot more joy...
So people add your subscriptions ....
Steve Grenier
Reply #135 Sunday, October 16, 2005 9:49 AM
Reply #135 Sunday, October 16, 2005 9:49 AM
The best of luck to WC not only for this subscribtion drive but for the future as well. I will do my best to help keep the community growing and supporting the site as best as I can. It would be a shame to see this site go down.
OzGirl
Reply #136 Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:49 PM
Reply #136 Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:49 PM
I was not going to make any more comments in the forum for more reasons than one, but I have a new vigor in like after a break from hectic work. So I have to say and that what sells the product these days is GOOD Marketing skills. I have been to a lot of sites on the web to a lot of them you are in connection with but haven't seen any advertising for your memberships here. If you did advertise it just was not good enough to catch my eye.
You also need to put out a good package with future plans for emprovement and what people are going to expect from you. The products are there just need to be put out to public in a different exciting way. Have a good slogan so it brings people to this site even more and you should have your site marketed as well in a bit more stand out way in all the other sites you are in partnership or what ever. Most of them are just normal writings in little boxes. Must improve on that to be able to sell. You really need a good slogan for starters with a good SS of your products.
You also need to put out a good package with future plans for emprovement and what people are going to expect from you. The products are there just need to be put out to public in a different exciting way. Have a good slogan so it brings people to this site even more and you should have your site marketed as well in a bit more stand out way in all the other sites you are in partnership or what ever. Most of them are just normal writings in little boxes. Must improve on that to be able to sell. You really need a good slogan for starters with a good SS of your products.
Hippie
Reply #137 Sunday, October 16, 2005 8:13 PM
Reply #137 Sunday, October 16, 2005 8:13 PM
I gotta say, I bought the subscription, and nothing has changed. It didn't give me anymore than I already had.
joetheblow
Reply #138 Sunday, October 16, 2005 10:49 PM
Reply #138 Sunday, October 16, 2005 10:49 PM
2 things:
One is that I am very interested as to how many will actually subscribe by October 31
Two is, sad to say, that there will not be enough subscribers so what will happen then?
I have disagreeed many times about not allowing people to freely see stuff because how do I or anybody else get seen if no one can see it?
But it is obviuos that many of the people drifting by are really doing nothing but drifting by.
So, I think it is time to turn the site into a subscriber only place. 3 levels; unsigned-in, signed-in and subscriber.
Unsigned in can't do much excpet view and maybe download... maybe... depending on the gallery. How about only the first 10 items on any given page?
Sign in and you will still see ads, but you can download stuuf up to 30MB.
As i said previously about this, i just hope the site is redesigned to take advantage of the new 3 teir structure. People who can't download anymore should be told about the other skinning sites out there or to subbscribe. Sub_sites data can only be downloaded from the main front page leaving galleries to view only.
One is that I am very interested as to how many will actually subscribe by October 31
Two is, sad to say, that there will not be enough subscribers so what will happen then?
I have disagreeed many times about not allowing people to freely see stuff because how do I or anybody else get seen if no one can see it?
But it is obviuos that many of the people drifting by are really doing nothing but drifting by.
So, I think it is time to turn the site into a subscriber only place. 3 levels; unsigned-in, signed-in and subscriber.
Unsigned in can't do much excpet view and maybe download... maybe... depending on the gallery. How about only the first 10 items on any given page?
Sign in and you will still see ads, but you can download stuuf up to 30MB.
As i said previously about this, i just hope the site is redesigned to take advantage of the new 3 teir structure. People who can't download anymore should be told about the other skinning sites out there or to subbscribe. Sub_sites data can only be downloaded from the main front page leaving galleries to view only.
joetheblow
Reply #139 Sunday, October 16, 2005 10:53 PM
I agree. WinCusto has a few volunteers, but hwat would be cool i they had one who is experience in marketing. I know this site can not be paid by advertising alone, but as far as I am concerned, it could earn way more than it does.
Reply #139 Sunday, October 16, 2005 10:53 PM
| I was not going to make any more comments in the forum for more reasons than one, but I have a new vigor in like after a break from hectic work. So I have to say and that what sells the product these days is GOOD Marketing skills. I have been to a lot of sites on the web to a lot of them you are in connection with but haven't seen any advertising for your memberships here. If you did advertise it just was not good enough to catch my eye |
I agree. WinCusto has a few volunteers, but hwat would be cool i they had one who is experience in marketing. I know this site can not be paid by advertising alone, but as far as I am concerned, it could earn way more than it does.
Autumnmist
Reply #140 Monday, October 17, 2005 1:17 AM
Reply #140 Monday, October 17, 2005 1:17 AM
Even though I'm a college student, I'd subscribe... but I only download a few skins from here a month and none of the premium suites you've ever released for subscribers are skins I'd used (no offense to the designers, just not my style), I don't want to use the Wincustomize browser since I only download a few WB skins a month at most and don't want/need to be able to apply skins from the browser, and I don't need unlimited downloads because I rarely download skins off of here.
So, it would be nice to see some sort of other benefit for subscribers--why not allow a WC subscription to give you 5% off your next SD purchase (off of OD, for example)? I already paid for WB, and I'm considering getting OD once WB5 is released for real. I'd be willing to consider a WC subscription as well.
I just have a hard time justifying paying $20 extra in addition to the $60 for OD for a sub to a site that I don't download off of all that often and for "benefits" that I don't want/need.
Even a measley 5% off OD would be enough to make me want to sub and buy OD together. Why not offer package deals like that?
So, it would be nice to see some sort of other benefit for subscribers--why not allow a WC subscription to give you 5% off your next SD purchase (off of OD, for example)? I already paid for WB, and I'm considering getting OD once WB5 is released for real. I'd be willing to consider a WC subscription as well.
I just have a hard time justifying paying $20 extra in addition to the $60 for OD for a sub to a site that I don't download off of all that often and for "benefits" that I don't want/need.
Even a measley 5% off OD would be enough to make me want to sub and buy OD together. Why not offer package deals like that?
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Reply #121 Saturday, October 15, 2005 2:56 PM
Thanks! Seems an odd way to denote the statistic, but your explanation sure makes more sense than a 3 second visit.