Piracy and Unconventional Wisdom
Should be required reading for all developers
Tuesday, June 7, 2005 by Tarkus | Discussion: WinCustomize News
This is not a new article, but it's new to me, and it remains very relevant.
It's refreshing because the writer is a software developer, and yet he actually dissects the issue of piracy with logic, instead of emotion. That's rare. Heck, it's rare for anyone, let alone a software developer.
Perhaps there's nothing groundbreaking here, but I've never seen the issue so thoroughly and well laid out.
I wish every developer would read this with an open mind.
It's refreshing because the writer is a software developer, and yet he actually dissects the issue of piracy with logic, instead of emotion. That's rare. Heck, it's rare for anyone, let alone a software developer.
Perhaps there's nothing groundbreaking here, but I've never seen the issue so thoroughly and well laid out.
I wish every developer would read this with an open mind.
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Tarkus
Reply #3 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 5:27 PM
Reply #3 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 5:27 PM
I hope I didn't downplay it too much in my opening summary, because I agree with you guys that it's a great, great article. Certainly worth reading by anyone interested in the subject, particularly developers.
paxx
Reply #4 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 5:52 PM
Reply #4 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 5:52 PM
Well, it's one point of view, but I think that he is making some mistakes.
Also I don't understand his maths when he says:
There is a vice in the logic here. Spending the equivalent of $28,000 of sales in developing an piracy protection feature may save you from losing a lot more than 56 sales. I don't understand at all where he comes up with this figure...
Also, while I disagree with the developers who claim that every pirated software downloaded is a lost sale, the opposite is also wrong. This article suggests that no pirated software downloaded is a lost sale at all. The truth probably lies in the middle, nobody can know exactly how much, but I am certain that a lot of people would have indeed bought a given software if they couldn't download it for free.
Software piracy hurts business, and trying to argue the opposite is just hypocritical, or short sighted.
Also I don't understand his maths when he says:
| $28,000 is a lot of product! Let's assume your product is a higher end product and sells for $500. That's 56 products. Which is more productive - trying to sell 56 more products - or preventing 56 losses? |
There is a vice in the logic here. Spending the equivalent of $28,000 of sales in developing an piracy protection feature may save you from losing a lot more than 56 sales. I don't understand at all where he comes up with this figure...
Also, while I disagree with the developers who claim that every pirated software downloaded is a lost sale, the opposite is also wrong. This article suggests that no pirated software downloaded is a lost sale at all. The truth probably lies in the middle, nobody can know exactly how much, but I am certain that a lot of people would have indeed bought a given software if they couldn't download it for free.
Software piracy hurts business, and trying to argue the opposite is just hypocritical, or short sighted.
Tarkus
Reply #5 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 6:29 PM
Where does it suggest that? He said most people using warez sites would not have bought the product anyway. Only the most naive would disagree with that. Now exactly what percentage most represents is entirely up for debate.
Reply #5 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 6:29 PM
| Also, while I disagree with the developers who claim that every pirated software downloaded is a lost sale, the opposite is also wrong. This article suggests that no pirated software downloaded is a lost sale at all. |
Where does it suggest that? He said most people using warez sites would not have bought the product anyway. Only the most naive would disagree with that. Now exactly what percentage most represents is entirely up for debate.
paxx
Reply #6 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 7:10 PM
Reply #6 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 7:10 PM
Indeed he says "most"... But he makes it sound like the balance is negligeable, and I'm not too sure it's that negligeable. And while it's true that a lot of people use pirated copies of software because they can't affort it, I don't think it represents even a majority. I know plenty of people who use pirated software, not because they can't affort to buy it, but just because it's there and easy to get. "Why pay when I can get it for free?" is a more generalised argument than "I wish I could buy it but I can't affort it". There are just as many $20 pirated software downloaded than $500 ones. It's not a question of budget most of the time, but a question of availability. If it wasn't there for free, a lot of people would buy it.
thomassen
Reply #7 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 7:28 PM
$50 for an operating system? I can't say I share your point of view there. An operating system is such an complex piece of software, how can you expect it to be priced similar to an application? Dropping the prices to $50 would most likely decrease piracy of the OS, but the profit would also be alot less than with the pirates as it is now.
Reply #7 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 7:28 PM
| If Windows XP Professional were available for say $50.00 bucks a pop the pirated copies would be halved overnight! |
$50 for an operating system? I can't say I share your point of view there. An operating system is such an complex piece of software, how can you expect it to be priced similar to an application? Dropping the prices to $50 would most likely decrease piracy of the OS, but the profit would also be alot less than with the pirates as it is now.
Tarkus
Reply #8 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 7:54 PM
You may be right, but just because someone can afford something doesn't mean they would have bought it if it wasn't available for free.
IOW, someone might be able to afford Photoshop, but would never buy it. However, they might use it if they can get it for free. So affordability is only one factor.
Meanwhile, I'm still using Photoshop 5.0 LE that came with my scanner years ago.
Reply #8 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 7:54 PM
| Indeed he says "most"... But he makes it sound like the balance is negligeable, and I'm not too sure it's that negligeable. And while it's true that a lot of people use pirated copies of software because they can't affort it, I don't think it represents even a majority. |
You may be right, but just because someone can afford something doesn't mean they would have bought it if it wasn't available for free.
IOW, someone might be able to afford Photoshop, but would never buy it. However, they might use it if they can get it for free. So affordability is only one factor.
Meanwhile, I'm still using Photoshop 5.0 LE that came with my scanner years ago.
Corky_O
Reply #9 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 8:24 PM
Reply #9 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 8:24 PM
An interesting article.
Thanks, Tarkus.
Something that threw me off was his statement in dealing with an activation issue:
"It took 3 days for the problem to be resolved in a proper manner. If I had not resorted to other less desirable means, the computer would have been unusable for those 3 days until the vendor resolved it."
This left me wondering where his point of view is coming from, and whether it is indeed unbiased.
One thing the overall implications of the article brought to my mind:
One viable solution (or at least part of the solution) would be to use an authentication software similar to that which MS is planning to use for OS updates. If the software can detect any cracks, or duplicate keys, then it would solve a portion of the problem, leaving the pirate with a version of software that cannot be updated without an additional purchase.
Overall, I think the real question is, "Which side of the law do you want to be on as a consumer", and "What are you willing to allow people to do with your hard work"?
I am a consumer, and in regards to piracy, I use a saying that has been around for a while - "Just Say No"
Thanks, Tarkus.
Something that threw me off was his statement in dealing with an activation issue:
"It took 3 days for the problem to be resolved in a proper manner. If I had not resorted to other less desirable means, the computer would have been unusable for those 3 days until the vendor resolved it."
This left me wondering where his point of view is coming from, and whether it is indeed unbiased.
One thing the overall implications of the article brought to my mind:
One viable solution (or at least part of the solution) would be to use an authentication software similar to that which MS is planning to use for OS updates. If the software can detect any cracks, or duplicate keys, then it would solve a portion of the problem, leaving the pirate with a version of software that cannot be updated without an additional purchase.
Overall, I think the real question is, "Which side of the law do you want to be on as a consumer", and "What are you willing to allow people to do with your hard work"?
I am a consumer, and in regards to piracy, I use a saying that has been around for a while - "Just Say No"
Tarkus
Reply #10 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 9:28 PM
You're welcome.
I can't speak for him, but I know when I changed my motherboard, I had to reactivate, and I was having a hard time finding my original Windows CD. I was offered a cracked version, and would have accepted -- without guilt -- if I hadn't eventually found my original CD.
Another time I lost my internet connection for a few days, and wasn't able to use some software from Pegasys that I had paid for, and wasn't a happy camper.
Meanwhile, it's trivial to find both Windows and Pegasys software that have no such restrictions.
And that's much of his point, that the good guys are punished, while the bad guys continue to use the software for free. And when you screw with the good guys enough, you only create more bad guys.
Reply #10 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 9:28 PM
| An interesting article. Thanks, Tarkus. |
You're welcome.
| Something that threw me off was his statement in dealing with an activation issue: "It took 3 days for the problem to be resolved in a proper manner. If I had not resorted to other less desirable means, the computer would have been unusable for those 3 days until the vendor resolved it." This left me wondering where his point of view is coming from, and whether it is indeed unbiased. |
I can't speak for him, but I know when I changed my motherboard, I had to reactivate, and I was having a hard time finding my original Windows CD. I was offered a cracked version, and would have accepted -- without guilt -- if I hadn't eventually found my original CD.
Another time I lost my internet connection for a few days, and wasn't able to use some software from Pegasys that I had paid for, and wasn't a happy camper.
Meanwhile, it's trivial to find both Windows and Pegasys software that have no such restrictions.
And that's much of his point, that the good guys are punished, while the bad guys continue to use the software for free. And when you screw with the good guys enough, you only create more bad guys.
dj_cityboy
Reply #11 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 10:46 PM
Reply #11 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 10:46 PM
well i have to admit ...i thought that was a wicked article and i can only hope that hackers and software developers take all these things in consideration.For the most part i agree with all the things he says in the article! on top of that i also dont think Photoshop CS2 should cost me $1300
as well, And honestly i think if i had the money for it i would actually buy it... but dont get me wrong like Wizop Paxx said there are just as many $20 programs hacked as well which i agree with.
I think for me honestly price is one major factor for me that keeps me going back to torrent sites..i dont know about most people but i really think that paying over a $1000 bucks for software is unreasonable and silly and can tell you that i will never fork out that much loot for a program...(thats a lot o friggin loot) i mean really it is and these corporations really cant expect people to pay that for programs or can they?? and also they have newer version ever year "that you'll have to buy as well just to be up-to-date" i mean i think it really is silly! the product is fantastic dont get me wrong i just think there price tags are not
cityboy
as well, And honestly i think if i had the money for it i would actually buy it... but dont get me wrong like Wizop Paxx said there are just as many $20 programs hacked as well which i agree with.
I think for me honestly price is one major factor for me that keeps me going back to torrent sites..i dont know about most people but i really think that paying over a $1000 bucks for software is unreasonable and silly and can tell you that i will never fork out that much loot for a program...(thats a lot o friggin loot) i mean really it is and these corporations really cant expect people to pay that for programs or can they?? and also they have newer version ever year "that you'll have to buy as well just to be up-to-date" i mean i think it really is silly! the product is fantastic dont get me wrong i just think there price tags are not
cityboy
Jafo
Reply #12 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 11:57 PM
Reply #12 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 11:57 PM
| paying over a $1000 bucks for software is unreasonable and silly |
I bet you paid that much for the hardware to run that software though.
So, what's good enough for the PC manufacturer is not good enough for the software manufacturer.
There are always LEGAL alternatives....my PS Elements came bundled with hardware....no 'real' charge at all....and good enough for most situations...
unckle fester
Reply #13 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 8:44 AM
Reply #13 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 8:44 AM
i read about half the article for now, i have home work before school, and i found a few lines that stuck out...
1. "Locks keep honest people honest."
2. "being blind does not make things disappear."
3. "When a plague exists, you do not hold back the antidote because there might be some
recipients with negative reactions".
1. "Locks keep honest people honest."
2. "being blind does not make things disappear."
3. "When a plague exists, you do not hold back the antidote because there might be some
recipients with negative reactions".
Jafo
Reply #14 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 8:49 AM
Reply #14 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 8:49 AM
UserID: 322330
Real Name: Jack Ass
Email: [email protected]
Member Since: 7/27/2002
Last Visited: 5/27/2005 10:14:07 AM
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Please change your nick.
Thanks.
Kuruus
Reply #15 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 8:50 AM
Reply #15 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 8:50 AM
I've always found it interesting that Microsoft can sell OEM versions of their software for half (and less than half) the price of their "full blown" software. I buy reasonably priced software (Stardock is a fine example) but stay away from the ritzy priced stuff. If you look around long enough you can usually find reasonably priced alternatives. Unfortunately with Microsoft you don't have much of a choice - which is why I buy their OEM versions!
Pirates will never be totally wiped out. But companies that follow the excellent suggestions that are made in this article will find that their customer base will be broader and loyal. And they won't mind at all paying a reasonable price for the product.
Pirates will never be totally wiped out. But companies that follow the excellent suggestions that are made in this article will find that their customer base will be broader and loyal. And they won't mind at all paying a reasonable price for the product.
Ka806
Reply #16 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 9:00 AM
Reply #16 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 9:00 AM
I myself am a software engineer but its for a military contractor. I think it would be safe to assume the government doesnt pirate my software =P
Of course if I was a store clerk and I saw someone stealing my merchandise. I would be 
I think software is different however. Why software developers are mad about people stealing their software is beyond me. Software is not something that explicitely belongs to them. Heck if this notion of intellectual propery exsisted 40 years ago we wouldnt be anywhere near where we are now. Software development simply involves the manipulation of algorithms, makeing it just as stupid to claim ownership of software as it is to claim ownership of calculus. I will hate the person who pirates my software as much as the guy who invented 1's and 0's hates me.
However many software developers (myself included) do feel that their services are manifested within the software. But hey in the software world, its a perfect economy and if people feel they shouldnt pay for a certain software then oh well. I have full confidence in my abilities to know that my software is as good as it could be, has reasonable security measures implemented, and is of some worth to the general public. It'll be the marketer's and vendor's fault that it is be pirated on a large scale.
If someone told be that my software was being pirated, I would say that those business guys f'ed up (they do need some blame at some point). Software developers usually dont see any financial hits from piracy, so they shouldnt take a personal on.
Anyways that is a very nice article though
And congradulations to me after almost a decade, I finally bought a music album (Common Sense - Be)
Of course if I was a store clerk and I saw someone stealing my merchandise. I would be
I think software is different however. Why software developers are mad about people stealing their software is beyond me. Software is not something that explicitely belongs to them. Heck if this notion of intellectual propery exsisted 40 years ago we wouldnt be anywhere near where we are now. Software development simply involves the manipulation of algorithms, makeing it just as stupid to claim ownership of software as it is to claim ownership of calculus. I will hate the person who pirates my software as much as the guy who invented 1's and 0's hates me.
However many software developers (myself included) do feel that their services are manifested within the software. But hey in the software world, its a perfect economy and if people feel they shouldnt pay for a certain software then oh well. I have full confidence in my abilities to know that my software is as good as it could be, has reasonable security measures implemented, and is of some worth to the general public. It'll be the marketer's and vendor's fault that it is be pirated on a large scale.
If someone told be that my software was being pirated, I would say that those business guys f'ed up (they do need some blame at some point). Software developers usually dont see any financial hits from piracy, so they shouldnt take a personal on.
Anyways that is a very nice article though
And congradulations to me after almost a decade, I finally bought a music album (Common Sense - Be)
starkers
Reply #17 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 10:17 AM
Reply #17 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 10:17 AM
On the subject of activation, it can be a right royal pain in the butt when every attempt made promptly fails. I had one such experience with some DVD software that required online activation and the entering of the CD key. No matter how many times that CD key was correctly entered it was rejected as being invalid. Subsequent contact with the company was completely dissatisfactory and did not resolve the problem. Hence, the software was returned to the store as faulty and replaced with a rivals equivelant
doctorx
Reply #18 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 6:44 PM
Reply #18 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 6:44 PM
I bought all my OS's up until XP. Why? f***ing activation. I will not tolerate it. I have no problem paying for my software, however there are a few things that really erk me. 1. Software licensing. When I pay for a piece of software... I own it.. not license it. The entire notion that I dont own what I pay for is ubsurd. The loan exception is Object Dock. But it is priced reasonably. 2. you cannot return open software. Money is a precious commodity for me. I refuse to pay $100's for the chance it does not work or screws up my computer and I cannot return it. I expect the same treatment for software as a TV or a piece of hardware. 3. I refuse to buy software or use software that ties my hands on how to use it. Hardware locks and activation ties me to my computer. I rebuild my system every 6 mo or so.
I totally disagree with #7 above.... You haven't heard of linux have you? Linux can be downloaded for free. I think $50 to $75 is perfectly fine for an OS.
With all this said... i think the article was the most balanced that i have read to date.
I have said enough...
Doctor X
I totally disagree with #7 above.... You haven't heard of linux have you? Linux can be downloaded for free. I think $50 to $75 is perfectly fine for an OS.
With all this said... i think the article was the most balanced that i have read to date.
I have said enough...
Doctor X
Kyhlwch
Reply #19 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 9:16 PM
Reply #19 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 9:16 PM
Interesting article. It reminds of the Baen Free Libary. Link
Baen is one of the largest and most important publishers of science fiction in the US. They offer a selection of books free for viewing online or with e-reader type software. You can download and read offline if you prefer. New books are added a couple times a year.
Baen says that libraries are an enormous boon to authors because they create word of mouth and introduce new readers to new authors. Baen feels that whatever they might lose in sales by offering a free online book is more than made up by the free exposure. It's certainly true that I hadn't read some of those authors before seeing them at Baen.
Not a perfect analogy, of course but I think it's an interesting experiment. I'm all in favor of finding new ways to approach the piracy issue.
Baen is one of the largest and most important publishers of science fiction in the US. They offer a selection of books free for viewing online or with e-reader type software. You can download and read offline if you prefer. New books are added a couple times a year.
Baen says that libraries are an enormous boon to authors because they create word of mouth and introduce new readers to new authors. Baen feels that whatever they might lose in sales by offering a free online book is more than made up by the free exposure. It's certainly true that I hadn't read some of those authors before seeing them at Baen.
Not a perfect analogy, of course but I think it's an interesting experiment. I'm all in favor of finding new ways to approach the piracy issue.
Jafo
Reply #20 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 11:02 PM
Reply #20 Wednesday, June 8, 2005 11:02 PM
| Software development simply involves the manipulation of algorithms, |
Yes...and Shakespeare, the US Constitution, the Dead Sea Scrolls, et al are just manipulated words.....so it follows they cannot be copyright or have exclusive content.
What drivel.
| When I pay for a piece of software... I own it.. |
No you don't.
When you pay for a CD you do not own the music, either.
You purchase rights to 'use' it.
Tangibly you 'own' the plastic on which it's printed....eg...the CD itself.
What is on it is intellectual property, covered and protected by International Property Law....[Copyright].
In some [not all countries] that includes a 'right' to duplicate or transfer the content to alternate media...aka...make backups.
This presumption that programs, data, etc are somehow a lesser entity than 'your house is your castle - property of substance, etc' is bunk.
OK, so you do not hold a gun to someones head and jack their car when you steal this sort of 'property'....but if you DID NOT PAY FOR IT WHERE PAYMENT WAS 'REQUIRED' IT'S CALLED "THEFT".
You can call it 'borrowing, acquiring, obtaining.....'it fell off the back of a truck', 'bloke gave it to me in a pub', etc' but wake up and smell the roses.
Real people call it theft.....it's less confusing when you abstain from attempting justification bs...
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Reply #1 Tuesday, June 7, 2005 2:19 PM