Any PORT in a storm.....
Monday, January 17, 2005 by Jafo | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Seems there's a sub-culture of 'skinners' who look down their noses at anything vaguely resembling a 'Port'....as if those who do them are second-class citizens.
Porting is an essential part of skinning. Without ports there would be NO suites, as then there'd be 'just' a WB and no Winamp to match....or a DX theme and no WB, etc. Anyone not understanding the importance of porting clearly is ignorant about both the history and actual 'meaning' of skinning. Do a search for 'Heavy Equipment' in just about any gallery/skin proggy you can think of, and on any skin site you like....then you'll 'know'....
I think this vilification of those who 'port' should stop.
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Sleeping Dragon
Reply #42 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 10:09 PM
Reply #42 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 10:09 PM
This reminds me of "Made by Native Americans". Where is the line and who is going to draw it. No one doubts that an anasazi pot that is dug up in New Mexico is native, but is the plastic trinket that is mass produced by a factory who has an owner that is 1/8 cherokee also native? There are an infinite # of points in between that have to do with quality of workmanship, method of workmanship, intention of the craftsman, bloodline, last name, .....
I guess if you like the piece, it doesn't matter. And if people want to admire the trinket, that's ok too. But it sure does get under the skin of a Chickasaw that kills his own deer to make his own bone beads to assemble his hand crafted mandella,
...when he sees a piece of junk in a novelty store that says "made by Native Americans".
Like I said, there are an infinite amount of points in between.
I guess if you like the piece, it doesn't matter. And if people want to admire the trinket, that's ok too. But it sure does get under the skin of a Chickasaw that kills his own deer to make his own bone beads to assemble his hand crafted mandella,
...when he sees a piece of junk in a novelty store that says "made by Native Americans".
Like I said, there are an infinite amount of points in between.
Corky_O
Reply #43 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 10:16 PM
Reply #43 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 10:16 PM
I prefer a Stout to a Port, but a Port will do in a pinch ... Oh! That's a brew issue. 
If I may, I would pose the question: "If one had no idea how to skin or create graphics, would one care whether the skin available were a port or an original?".
I think the answer is - "no".
I will admit that I do have a bit of an ego, so I would love to be able to create a complete skin from scratch (with a little help from SKS and my friends here at WC). This is indeed the path I shall endeavor to travel.
I have absolutely no issue with people who port or the fact that a skin is ported. If the skin works for me, then it works, and if it is a port, I recognize the original artists work as something I like and I am grateful to the person who took the time to port it.
Wow, look at all those "I's" in my comment, I must have an ego.
If I may, I would pose the question: "If one had no idea how to skin or create graphics, would one care whether the skin available were a port or an original?".
I think the answer is - "no".
I will admit that I do have a bit of an ego, so I would love to be able to create a complete skin from scratch (with a little help from SKS and my friends here at WC). This is indeed the path I shall endeavor to travel.
I have absolutely no issue with people who port or the fact that a skin is ported. If the skin works for me, then it works, and if it is a port, I recognize the original artists work as something I like and I am grateful to the person who took the time to port it.
Wow, look at all those "I's" in my comment, I must have an ego.
krazyone959
Reply #45 Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:35 AM
Reply #45 Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:35 AM
Why is that everytime somebody tries to contribute to the community ,somebody else is at their throats or complaining about it? Isnt porting part of the learning process? Like butch while he may be porting , he is also learning about skinning and eventually he will learn enough to make his own WB skins.Some have talent and some dont so they contribute to the community by porting. I couldnt care less if it was ported or not long as its a nice, useable skin and I like it. 
horiz0n
Reply #46 Thursday, January 20, 2005 2:15 AM
Reply #46 Thursday, January 20, 2005 2:15 AM
"I couldn't care less" or "I don't care at all" seems to be a re-occuring statement in this thread. Not sure if thats a good or a bad thing.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #47 Thursday, January 20, 2005 3:01 AM
Reply #47 Thursday, January 20, 2005 3:01 AM
| I couldn't care less |
I'm getting that way to. Perhaps it's time to retire from skinning and let the porters take over. That seems to be the way the 'skinning' community is going. There are a few notable skinners been lost in the last few months. Maybe our time is over 
Sleeping Dragon
Reply #48 Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:26 AM
Reply #48 Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:26 AM
Your time has just begun, when the community is emmulating you and your work.
butch123
Reply #49 Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:37 AM
Reply #49 Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:37 AM
I agree with Developer Sleeping Dragon Your time has just begun, if it was not for you where would we all be 
gooberbean28
Reply #50 Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:01 PM
Reply #50 Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:01 PM
Well it seems most people get to that decision "they dont care or couldnt care less" when all there is is bickering and argueing about a certain subject . We all belong to a skinning community, a community where we all should help and encourage others! Why cant we all just get along? 
Why cant we all just get along? 
Ande
Reply #51 Thursday, January 20, 2005 5:59 PM
Reply #51 Thursday, January 20, 2005 5:59 PM
The "Porters"are getting exactly the same kudos for a port as the "Skinners", who create their product from scratch. Is this fair compensation for time, creativity and effort expended? Now this site is a business. It is in the business of primarily offering product for programs, as well as other avenues. To me it is good business sense not to put a restiction of any kind on ports. And I am assuming that's not going to happen. Therefore what could be done to satsify all. (everybody will never be satsifed of course). One way I could suggest is that a port not be eligible to rate any higher, for example, than two and a half Stars. Now the crappy Ports and the Crappy oringinal skins will not rate high anyway. But a good oringinal skin will be able to rate 3 or 4 stars. Only an outstanding effort will rate 5.
Of thousands and thousands of people who visit this site I would venture to say "they don't care" if the skin is and original or port. If it looks good to them and they think it will jazz up their desktop they will download it irrespective. There definately not on the message boards offering suggestions.
Now keeping in mind the above is just a suggestion, a question arises, do the porters think they should eligible for the same ratings as original skinners??
Of thousands and thousands of people who visit this site I would venture to say "they don't care" if the skin is and original or port. If it looks good to them and they think it will jazz up their desktop they will download it irrespective. There definately not on the message boards offering suggestions.
Now keeping in mind the above is just a suggestion, a question arises, do the porters think they should eligible for the same ratings as original skinners??
kona0197
Reply #52 Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:02 PM
How about you actually do a port sometime? Porting takes work, sometimes hard work. Don't knock it till ya try it.
Reply #52 Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:02 PM
| Now keeping in mind the above is just a suggestion, a question arises, do the porters think they should eligible for the same ratings as original skinners?? |
How about you actually do a port sometime? Porting takes work, sometimes hard work. Don't knock it till ya try it.
butch123
Reply #53 Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:13 PM
Reply #53 Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:13 PM
do the porters think they should eligible for the same ratings as original skinners??
You bet...
You bet...
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #54 Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:31 PM
Reply #54 Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:31 PM
I think there needs to be a differentiation between types of ports.
Porting from one app to another: say someone wants to port a WB skin to a dx object - that's fine. The one porting deserves all due credit for the work involved, as does the original author for supplying the graphics/inspiration. Don't forget, not all skinners want to make skins for all the apps available. So porting is a good way of getting your work spread around.
Porting from one app to similar: say logonUI to logonXp or msstyle to WB - these should be ported by the original author. At the very least, if someone else ports the skin (with permission of course ), the credit, download count etc, should go to the original author, not the porter. Also any extra work required (msstyle upgraded to full WB functionality) should be to a high standard and compulsory - no 'five minute' jobs.
As has been said, the end user doesn't care as long as they get what they like. That's fine. But skinners should be allowed to retain pride in their workmanship and not have that pride devalued in any way.
Ande
Reply #55 Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:57 PM
Reply #55 Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:57 PM
Koana, it was just a suggestion, why don't you come up with somthing original instead of knocking.
kona0197
Reply #56 Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:01 PM
Reply #56 Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:01 PM
I disagree Fuzzy - A port is a port no matter what kind your doing. I'm very sick of the way msstyle porters have been treated and continue to be treated. In fact the reason I quit porting msstyles was because of the constant crap I got from the community.
If you do a msstyle port correctly then it's a lot more than "one click"
I'm very concered about the way porters are treated. All you people are doing is driving a nail into the community. I've thought about removing my ports more than once and leaving.
Bottom line: Any port is a skin. ANY PORT. As soon as people start treating porters better all this will end.
If you do a msstyle port correctly then it's a lot more than "one click"
I'm very concered about the way porters are treated. All you people are doing is driving a nail into the community. I've thought about removing my ports more than once and leaving.
Bottom line: Any port is a skin. ANY PORT. As soon as people start treating porters better all this will end.
horiz0n
Reply #57 Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:07 PM
Reply #57 Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:07 PM
The rate thing has some merit, but not if the skins getting rated in which affects the viewing and downloads. Like saying"do you deserve a 5 for someone elses work" maybe, maybe not, depends. But to the end user, is it worth the download, thats how the rating works. But even if the rating didn't affect anything, it wouldn't make sense or be fair really, besides at 2.5 stars that means a person that ported and did indeed do some work albiet in varying degree's would get at max half the rating that rippers could get.
I could also see not getting a download count for ports being a possible thing, but people looking for skins based on popularity would lose the option to find it.
All in all it simply comes down to the fact that, there really isn't any good ways to punish or restrict the people that port. Because there's no logical reason to punish, restrict, or shun a person that is doing you (the community) a favor.
So basically, what jafo said 57 posts ago.
I could also see not getting a download count for ports being a possible thing, but people looking for skins based on popularity would lose the option to find it.
All in all it simply comes down to the fact that, there really isn't any good ways to punish or restrict the people that port. Because there's no logical reason to punish, restrict, or shun a person that is doing you (the community) a favor.
So basically, what jafo said 57 posts ago.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #58 Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:25 PM
Reply #58 Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:25 PM
Is someone that ports a skin an artist?
horiz0n
Reply #59 Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:30 PM
Reply #59 Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:30 PM
"Bottom line: Any port is a skin. ANY PORT."
Absolutely true, yet a person that makes a calender for rainlender from a windowblinds theme has done two things, ported a skin from a different type of application altogether but in fact also made that particular item themselves.
Whereas as a person takes one thing, doesn't change the skin at all but just makes it work on basically the same app with a different name. It's not the porters creation, or his skin, and hence the credit should go to the person that made it, aka the original author.
I'm sure everyone would agree with me, that if I took all of Jairo Boudewyn's dock icons and wallpapers and ported them to misc icons/icon packager and bootskins, EVEN WITH HIS PERMISSION, that I would NOT deserve an instant 1.2 million downloads NOR deserve the credit for them.
and no, a porter is not an artist, yet many are capable of it and do plenty of art themselves often in the skins they do port, but a skinner doesn't have to be an artist.
Absolutely true, yet a person that makes a calender for rainlender from a windowblinds theme has done two things, ported a skin from a different type of application altogether but in fact also made that particular item themselves.
Whereas as a person takes one thing, doesn't change the skin at all but just makes it work on basically the same app with a different name. It's not the porters creation, or his skin, and hence the credit should go to the person that made it, aka the original author.
I'm sure everyone would agree with me, that if I took all of Jairo Boudewyn's dock icons and wallpapers and ported them to misc icons/icon packager and bootskins, EVEN WITH HIS PERMISSION, that I would NOT deserve an instant 1.2 million downloads NOR deserve the credit for them.
and no, a porter is not an artist, yet many are capable of it and do plenty of art themselves often in the skins they do port, but a skinner doesn't have to be an artist.
horiz0n
Reply #60 Thursday, January 20, 2005 8:02 PM
Reply #60 Thursday, January 20, 2005 8:02 PM
Here's a good quick look at the difference between a skinner an artist and a porter, keep in mind these are like extremes of each type, and most people that do one type of thing will often fit under more than one catagory in varying degrees.
Skinner: https://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?SkinID=703&LibID=29&comments=1
Artist: https://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?SID=1&SkinID=742&LibID=8&comments=1
Porter: https://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?SkinID=1057&LibID=2&comments=1
The guys that can do everything:
http://theskinsfactory.wincustomize.com/viewskin.aspx?SID=5441&skinid=3324&libid=1&comments=1&UID=685985
http://pixtudio.wincustomize.com/viewskin.aspx?SID=5403&skinid=368&libid=22&comments=1&UID=685985
Skinner: https://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?SkinID=703&LibID=29&comments=1
Artist: https://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?SID=1&SkinID=742&LibID=8&comments=1
Porter: https://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?SkinID=1057&LibID=2&comments=1
The guys that can do everything:
http://theskinsfactory.wincustomize.com/viewskin.aspx?SID=5441&skinid=3324&libid=1&comments=1&UID=685985
http://pixtudio.wincustomize.com/viewskin.aspx?SID=5403&skinid=368&libid=22&comments=1&UID=685985
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Reply #41 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 9:44 PM
I think the attitude towars msstyle porters is the one that needs to change.