Any PORT in a storm.....
Monday, January 17, 2005 by Jafo | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Seems there's a sub-culture of 'skinners' who look down their noses at anything vaguely resembling a 'Port'....as if those who do them are second-class citizens.
Porting is an essential part of skinning. Without ports there would be NO suites, as then there'd be 'just' a WB and no Winamp to match....or a DX theme and no WB, etc. Anyone not understanding the importance of porting clearly is ignorant about both the history and actual 'meaning' of skinning. Do a search for 'Heavy Equipment' in just about any gallery/skin proggy you can think of, and on any skin site you like....then you'll 'know'....
I think this vilification of those who 'port' should stop.
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Reply #22 Tuesday, January 18, 2005 8:56 PM
| At times I think people have lost sight of what skinning is all about |
fuzzy i couldnt agree more .. i remember when it was supposed to be fun
... not about what everybody thinks ... It seems that many have lost site of that. 
Reply #23 Tuesday, January 18, 2005 9:06 PM
This is a port...in fact both the Winamp and Litestep 'skins' are 'ports'.
97 images edited 'per-pixel' for the LS theme, some of which [27] are multi-state animations...... a further 25 involved with the Winamp skin.
Not one part of it is 'point-and-click'.
What happens is that people who dismiss ports as 'inferior' make value judgements which do not necessarily apply to all examples. Sure, some Skinstudio porting may be better executed than others .... and it may 'seem' like an unfair advantage in comparison to those who start with an original concept - from scratch.
But what do we do next? Differentiate between those who use SKS vs those who do it by hand?
How about those who use freeware graphic proggies vs those who shell out thousands on high-end Cad or Photoshop, Maya, etc?
The point is....everyone is a 'skinner'...either way....'original hand-made' can be 'shitty' just as easily as 'point-and-click ports can.
The LAST thing anyone 'should' want in this game is to discriminate through elitism and drive potential new blood away.
There was a time when EVERY skin was derived/ported from others...as there WAS no skinning 'tool' to make it easier for ANYONE.
Let's face it....is it all a case of jealousy that now there is a way to import/create skins which were once resigned to the realm of voodoo and dark science? And now everyone is/can be indoctrinated to the 'brotherhood'....
Reply #24 Tuesday, January 18, 2005 9:27 PM
Is a person that ports a skin a skinner or a porter? If they create the images then yes of course they are but if you use the images created by someone else to construct a theme, are they still considered a skinner?
I have to say no to that. A negative perspective would be to see them as second class citizens. A positive perspective would be to see them as porters.
I hope I made sense. No offense towards anyone at all. I got a headache.
Reply #26 Tuesday, January 18, 2005 10:01 PM
I'm speaking only for myself because I haven't a clue how anyone else thinks, nor do I want to. Snidely Whiplash is not a skinner, never has been nor will he ever be. Snidely ports msstyles to WB format using SKS and was using it long before most people knew anything about it. These ports were made because others asked for them to be ported, so Snidely did them. Snidely has tried to 'fine-tune' each port by adding WB features such as the logoff/shutdown dialogs, menu mouseovers, and such. There have been times when some images needed 'cleaned up'. There were times when some images were completely remade because the msstyle equivalent wouldn't work under the WB format. Some skins needed shellstyles to be added, but not many. There is no way the work done to include these features in a skin is comparable to the work done by others who create their skins from scratch and I've said that thousands of times to anyone who would listen.
Over a year ago, I fought very hard for the name 'Snidely Whiplash' to not be listed on the 'Top Authors' list because I felt him being listed there was disrespectful to skinners. So, if you think Snidely did ports for popularity, you're very wrong. Many ports done by Snidely have been posted on this site by others, also. Based on that fact, download counts never factored into it, either. I completely understand some folks' disenchantment with ports but before anyone starts thinking Snidely made ports to be popular ...... well, they don't know me. I get my joys from running youth sports programs, not from a download count of ports done by a cartoon character. Snidely does ports because he was asked to and because I know I have no artistic talent. You should see the half - completed (or less) skins I have sitting on my harddrives that will never see the light of day because they're so terrible. I have no talent and I admit it
People who make their skins from scratch have my utmost respect for their creativity and artistic talent. The skins they create may never be seen on my system because they just aren't my style, but they still garner my respect. You have to admit, there are some pretty bad Windowblinds skins out there, right?
Heck, a lot of them were posted by Snidely.BTW, Snidely and I (Pas) are not the same person. We are two completely different entities.
Reply #27 Tuesday, January 18, 2005 10:02 PM
Reply #28 Tuesday, January 18, 2005 10:07 PM
| 'original hand-made' can be 'shitty' just as easily as 'point-and-click ports can. |
Absolutely! I've made many myself
I've ported and created original skins. I do prefer to create my own, but I don't skin every application there is. So if someone approaches me and asks if they can port something I've made for an application I didn't skin I think it benefits all those people that use that application. Who cares who made it? As long as it isn't ripped - then I care.If someone converts a skin over to WindowBlinds from another format (with permission), doesn't that benefit WindowBlinds users?
Reply #29 Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:29 PM
regardless though, what i really want to know is, where can i get that wallpaper Jafo?
Reply #30 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 1:21 AM
Reply #31 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 2:49 AM
*overuses this phrase*
FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION!!
anywho I don't consider myself a skinner either, I make wallpapers and dock icons atm, and neither qualify as skinning imo, just customization.
Reply #32 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 2:49 AM
Instead I'm offering assistance, at least with WB skins. Anyone young or old, fresh or aromatic, porting a MSStyle or creating a WB skin from scratch, can and will get help if they visit The Workshop at Skinartistry, whether they need a SKS class, step-by-step help or just a bug check. Or you can contact one of the Admins there directly if you want to be more discreet about the help you seek.
Thanks to Butch for reminding me about why I wanted to be a part of the skinning community in the first place.
Reply #33 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 3:04 AM
Oh....I was told to add ....
That 'port' of treetog's WB Antares to Litestep Shell theme included 1629 lines of original configuration code in 11 resource files [eg theme.rc], none of which existed in the source [WB]....
Reply #34 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 5:29 AM
like butch said...this should be a community and there is no place for ego imo.
it's all about availability of skins.....if a WB artist has made a beautifull
theme, but only that and no widgets or wall or whatever, somebody will surely
make it themself either for personal use or to share. This will only increase
the popularity of the WB skin. Also permission is needed, so if you don't want
ports don't give it. If you do give your permission, make sure the port is done properly...this will all be benefitial to the COMMUNITY....
Reply #35 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 6:41 AM
That should be true, and it would be better for the skinning scene if it was, but it's like saying 'This is a big world and we shouldn't have wars'. It's a nice thought, but sadly it won't ever happen. As long as people can put stuff in the public domain, and receive those precious comments in return, ego will always come into it.
Reply #36 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 6:44 AM
And porting removes the incentive to improve your skills. How many porters out there have actually progressed on to making their own original skins? And how many still stick to porting?
I don't see porting as any kind of 'entry level' skinning or a foot in the door. I see making your own graphics and doing something new as being a better way in.
Reply #37 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 2:21 PM
By the way, "ego" is how it all started: "Look, I hacked WinAmp. Now give me some praise".
Reply #38 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 4:13 PM
1. Me is girl (I leave the making skins up to the men and then I rip them apart and make my own dresses)
2. No time, it clearly takes skill to make an original skin something that "some of us" don't have therefore we port
I only port window skins into pocket pc skins but that takes enough time to even do a quick port! you guys must really sweat behind your machines...
Reply #39 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 4:58 PM
| you guys must really sweat behind your machines... |
That's a different problem
Reply #40 Wednesday, January 19, 2005 9:36 PM
I see no point in minimizing or denigrating the work of someone who shares his/her product freely, whether original (hard to define, that), ported or updated. Sorry to hear this has even become an issue, actually.
Cheers,
Daiwa
P.S. Jafo - hate to take advantage of this to prod you, but I'm waiting on an email reply from you, too.
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Reply #21 Tuesday, January 18, 2005 8:34 PM
I have to agree with you there, if the time isn't spent finishing what SKS doesn't do. Snidely Whiplash's ports are the perfect example of how to do ports from Msstyles to WBA the right way. I really think though, the type of ports Jafo is referring to is porting to supporting apps and not the SKS One Button Approach