Only MY intellectual property counts..
A view from the glass house
Wednesday, December 29, 2004 by Frogboy | Discussion: Skinning
I've been observating (and participating) in some interesting..ahem..discussions with regards to Adam's article on using SkinStudio to import .msstyles files as WindowBlinds skins.
Some intersting "outrage" at the thought that some user, in the privacy of their own home, might run a skin that was originally in .msstyles format in WindowBlinds. That this was, somehow, a violation of the rights of the skinner.
Let's be clear: No one is suggesting that someone should be able to import in a .msstyles skin and then start being able to upload it around. You still need permission. The rights of the skin author should still be respected.
But we also have to have some perspective as well. .msstyles is MICROSOFT'S FORMAT. It's a format that NO ONE has legally licensed to make use of. And it gets worse - every single .msstyles on the net is a derivative of the Luna.msstyles. People either reshack luna.msstyles (or an existing derivative of it) to change the bitmaps and data in it or they use a $20 editor that is available that reshacks luna.msstyles with a prettier interface.
The reason WinCustomize currently does not have a .msstyles section is because of that issue: Can we condone the distribution of what is borderline pirated files? It's the same reason why we don't include Boot screens that are patched files of the NT kernal (we only support .bootskin and had to write a freeware program just so that we could have boot screens here). You can't just patch someone else's copyrighted stuff and pass it around. Believe me, I would love to have a .msstyles section here from a purely capitalistic point of view and if someone can rationalize it for me to have a section for them, go for it - I'm ready to believe. But like I said, we're talking pretty gray market stuff.
But let's get back - so then the people who object to the idea that WindowBlinds would somehow profit from the ability to make use of .msstyles. This is apparently somehow different than the commercial programs that have existed for the past 3 years that make use of .msstyles by patching uxtheme.dll.
And anyone who claims that hacking your system files to use .msstyles should explain to others why the main sites that promote patching uxtheme.dll do not have forums. Even the main NON-FREE developer of a uxtheme patching program removed their forums. The most popular .msstyles distribution site has no forums. Could it possibly be that it's because of the technical disasters it causes? I don't know. What I do know is how much tech support WE get from people who messed around with their files and blew away their default visual style or had problems when they applied a service pack or something else. In my opinion, anyone trying to claim that patching your system files (either in RAM or on disk) is "safe" is not telling the whole story.
Puttin that aside - there are already programs making a profit from .msstyles and have been for years. Where's the outrage? But because the handful of original msstyles floating around the net might be able to be added to the 3000+ existing WindowBlinds skins Stardock is the greedy one? Please.
Regardless of the format, the rights of skin authors need to be respected. They are artists. As the #6 most downloaded skin author on this site, I know something of the work that goes into skinning. But I also know where my rights end. When someone downloads my skin onto their own computer, my rights end. What they do with it on their own computer is their business. People have been downloading and modifying skins for their own use since day 1. And of all formats, .msstyles authors happen to be using a format that requires them to be using someone else's stuff without their permission in the first place.
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Reply #102 Tuesday, January 4, 2005 2:58 PM
You're 33 years old now so stop spewing hate about CUSTOMIZE.ORG and learn to listen to what others have to say. We the .msstyle authors don't want our works tampered with by your program without our consent. Each and everyone us are potential customers but we are turned off to your products by some of your comments. These same "kids" whom you seem to hate so much over at customize.org are all potential customers, learn to reach out instead of being hateful. If hate consumes you then nothing good can come of that in the long run.
-max
Reply #103 Tuesday, January 4, 2005 3:14 PM
Reply #104 Tuesday, January 4, 2005 3:16 PM
total hipocracy
Reply #105 Tuesday, January 4, 2005 3:47 PM
This is a fine example of your of your ignorances, in action.
You imply that there has to be an Idiot in the equation, or rather should I say, you want so desperately to prove that there is an Idiot. The truth of the matter is that Brad is right and you are wrong, and no matter what ancedotal evidences, you trot out, noone here will buy into your arguments, because your logic is flawed.
You Sir, are attempting to build a house on Sand.
Reply #106 Tuesday, January 4, 2005 4:00 PM
Wow, I never realized the pointing out hypocricy is the equivalent of "spewing hatred" and "cussing".
Let me make sure I have this straight:
Customize.org admins call Stardock "slimey" and say that "most skinners on WinCustomize.com "suck" and that we're "just about the money" because a free program Stardock makes allows users to convert .msstyles to be used by another program (WindowBlinds) that can be used for free. And the objection is that some percentage of people might possibly pay $20 to upgrade to the enhanced version of WindowBlinds.
And as a result, this is "exploitation" of msstyles skinners who did not upload their skins to Customize.org with the thought that people would have to pay money to use them.
And so when I point out that in fact customize.org's msstyles section recommends people to go to a website and pay $20 to make use of those msstyles that is considered "spewing hatred" and "cussing"?
If you want to see hatred, perhaps you should look to Customize.org, land of abusive admins and users who actually use profanity when describing the skins and themes provided freely by skin authors.
Reply #107 Tuesday, January 4, 2005 4:05 PM
1) There are msstyles authors who (freely) gave their permission to port their themes to WB and redistribute them here on WC. Those ports were available long before SK did have the ability to import msstyles.
2) There are msstyles authors who were asked and did not give their permission to port their themes. Those ports were never uploaded (or if the porter tries to, will be rejected by the admins/moderators here). No one here makes illegal ports of msstyles and distributes them.
3) In three years here at WC I have never seen or heard of a msstyles port that was sold for money or that did not work with the free version of WindowBlinds.
4) I often take the shutdown dialogue of WB files and use it to make a Rainy skin if no matching skin is available for download. I do not redistribute that skin, and I also have never heard of WB authors being upset by that. If I buy a CD by a music artist who does not want his/her stuff to be sold on the internet, I still can convert his/her songs to an mp3 format and upload it to my ipod, as long as I don't distribute the songs. I can download a bmp wallpaper from the net and convert it to a jpg to decrease the file size, as long as I don't distribute that file. I can take a WB skin and make a compact star-menu for it (if none exists already) but I can't distribute that file....... I could go on for another couples of pages here, but I hope you get the point.
..... so what exactly is the problem here???
Reply #108 Tuesday, January 4, 2005 4:16 PM
Reply #109 Tuesday, January 4, 2005 4:16 PM
Reply #110 Tuesday, January 4, 2005 5:06 PM
Reply #111 Tuesday, January 4, 2005 5:50 PM
', which indicated I was laughing at the comment's sense and logic [or lack of]....
Reply #112 Tuesday, January 4, 2005 10:09 PM
| If the option to hack .msstyles wasnt there, you guys would have complete reign over all. |
That's a bad thing? Actually using a program to skin windows that will not hack my xp system is a bad thing?
Reply #113 Tuesday, January 4, 2005 10:52 PM
I thought one of the (ahem) features of XP Stability, was that it allowed programs to think that, system files were being modified, but in actuality they simply let a program modify a dummy and replaced the modified version, with the original after install.
"Windows File Protection
Purpose
Windows® File Protection (WFP) prevents the replacement of essential system files installed as part of Windows. Applications should not overwrite these files because they are used by the system and other applications. Protecting these files prevents application and operating system failures.
http://tinyurl.com/67jsl [MSDN]
Reply #114 Wednesday, January 5, 2005 12:12 AM
Why use a hacked piece of code when you can use a program that does it for you safely?
People use programs for almost everything ranging from word processing to firewalls, what makes a VS the exception?
And cygnus: I do wonder why WFP hasn't kicked in and replaced the uxtheme....or is it because most also rename the uxtheme in the dllcache directory?
Reply #115 Wednesday, January 5, 2005 12:46 AM
| Frogboy you really need to hire a PR person. You dont see bill gates in forums yelling and cussing at "kids" who prefer linux to windows do you? You should act like the CEO of a company and just run your business! Act like a grown up instead of a baby who throws tantrums when things dont go his way or when others disagree with you. You're 33 years old now so stop spewing hate about CUSTOMIZE.ORG and learn to listen to what others have to say. We the .msstyle authors don't want our works tampered with by your program without our consent. Each and everyone us are potential customers but we are turned off to your products by some of your comments. These same "kids" whom you seem to hate so much over at customize.org are all potential customers, learn to reach out instead of being hateful. If hate consumes you then nothing good can come of that in the long run. |
HERE HERE!!
Reply #116 Wednesday, January 5, 2005 1:06 AM
| You're 33 years old now so stop spewing hate about CUSTOMIZE.ORG and learn to listen to what others have to say. We the .msstyle authors don't want our works tampered with by your program without our consent. Each and everyone us are potential customers but we are turned off to your products by some of your comments. These same "kids" whom you seem to hate so much over at customize.org are all potential customers, learn to reach out instead of being hateful. If hate consumes you then nothing good can come of that in the long run. |
Do as I say not as I as do? It's ok for the people at custo to speak poorly of stardock products and frogboy but when he defends his company and his products you attack him and then lock the thread. Talk about childish.
When you speak as the "we the .msstyle authors", you act as though you have some kind of authority or have a copyright on your work, but in all truth you are stealing MS work, changing parts of it, repackaging it, releasing it and calling it your own work. That be like me taking the Mona Lisa, changing the colors, maybe repositioning her head a little, change her smile, give her face a lift, change her hair style, and give the background a new look and then release it to the world and taking credit for it.
Reply #117 Wednesday, January 5, 2005 2:42 AM
1. This ability in SkinStudio increases the variety of skins that a WindowBlinds user has available to them without having to resort to using a system hack or manually attempting to convert the file themselves as the majority of users aren't skinners. This additional source for skins would normally mean that WindowBlinds users would start visiting sites that offer *.msstyles skins since WC doesn't. So at Stardock's expense...I'm pretty sure that Stardock's coding staff doesn't work for free...WindowBlinds users get a greater variety of skins at no extra cost, other skinning sites get more traffic at no extra cost and *.msstyles skinners gain a new audience at no extra cost.
2. The staff at Customize.org has done a fine job in defending their *.msstyles skinners skins from being automatically ported by the WC community through their use of behavorial modification techniques....ie. you've clearly made up my mind that I have no reason to waste bandwidth on visiting your site.
Reply #118 Wednesday, January 5, 2005 6:53 AM
Reply #119 Wednesday, January 5, 2005 2:48 PM
Reply #120 Wednesday, January 5, 2005 2:56 PM
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web-wc01
Reply #101 Tuesday, January 4, 2005 1:07 PM
Re every msstyles being a derivative of Luna.msstyles
This is a ridiculous analogy. That's like saying every WindowBlinds skin should be a derivative of say the Alienware skin from The Skins Factory because it's "efficient". If we made an msstyles editor, I can assure you that it could just as easily have been done without patching luna.msstyles to start with.
For your analogy to make sense it would be like loading up your "letter" and changing just the words you need to change rather than simply writing a new letter.