Only MY intellectual property counts..
A view from the glass house
Wednesday, December 29, 2004 by Frogboy | Discussion: Skinning
I've been observating (and participating) in some interesting..ahem..discussions with regards to Adam's article on using SkinStudio to import .msstyles files as WindowBlinds skins.
Some intersting "outrage" at the thought that some user, in the privacy of their own home, might run a skin that was originally in .msstyles format in WindowBlinds. That this was, somehow, a violation of the rights of the skinner.
Let's be clear: No one is suggesting that someone should be able to import in a .msstyles skin and then start being able to upload it around. You still need permission. The rights of the skin author should still be respected.
But we also have to have some perspective as well. .msstyles is MICROSOFT'S FORMAT. It's a format that NO ONE has legally licensed to make use of. And it gets worse - every single .msstyles on the net is a derivative of the Luna.msstyles. People either reshack luna.msstyles (or an existing derivative of it) to change the bitmaps and data in it or they use a $20 editor that is available that reshacks luna.msstyles with a prettier interface.
The reason WinCustomize currently does not have a .msstyles section is because of that issue: Can we condone the distribution of what is borderline pirated files? It's the same reason why we don't include Boot screens that are patched files of the NT kernal (we only support .bootskin and had to write a freeware program just so that we could have boot screens here). You can't just patch someone else's copyrighted stuff and pass it around. Believe me, I would love to have a .msstyles section here from a purely capitalistic point of view and if someone can rationalize it for me to have a section for them, go for it - I'm ready to believe. But like I said, we're talking pretty gray market stuff.
But let's get back - so then the people who object to the idea that WindowBlinds would somehow profit from the ability to make use of .msstyles. This is apparently somehow different than the commercial programs that have existed for the past 3 years that make use of .msstyles by patching uxtheme.dll.
And anyone who claims that hacking your system files to use .msstyles should explain to others why the main sites that promote patching uxtheme.dll do not have forums. Even the main NON-FREE developer of a uxtheme patching program removed their forums. The most popular .msstyles distribution site has no forums. Could it possibly be that it's because of the technical disasters it causes? I don't know. What I do know is how much tech support WE get from people who messed around with their files and blew away their default visual style or had problems when they applied a service pack or something else. In my opinion, anyone trying to claim that patching your system files (either in RAM or on disk) is "safe" is not telling the whole story.
Puttin that aside - there are already programs making a profit from .msstyles and have been for years. Where's the outrage? But because the handful of original msstyles floating around the net might be able to be added to the 3000+ existing WindowBlinds skins Stardock is the greedy one? Please.
Regardless of the format, the rights of skin authors need to be respected. They are artists. As the #6 most downloaded skin author on this site, I know something of the work that goes into skinning. But I also know where my rights end. When someone downloads my skin onto their own computer, my rights end. What they do with it on their own computer is their business. People have been downloading and modifying skins for their own use since day 1. And of all formats, .msstyles authors happen to be using a format that requires them to be using someone else's stuff without their permission in the first place.
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Reply #2 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 2:56 AM
Not in the least.
The user has a copyright on the portions of the file they created.
Since they don't own the underlying format (msstyle) they do not have the right to make such an EULA.
For instance, if I were passing around a patched copy of the NT kernal without permission, I couldn't say "You may not use this on Dell computers because I hate them."
Now, if someone made their own format or program or something then they would have more leeway on that. But that's one of the problems with msstyles in the first place: EVERY msstyle is a derivative of a Microsoft copyrighted file.
It's Microsoft's rights that are really being infringed.
Reply #3 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 3:01 AM
Reply #4 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 3:17 AM
Reply #5 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 3:40 AM
| The EULA would have perfect legal standing |
The EULA has no legal standing in JesseJ's example. You cannot claim ownership of a format that already belongs to another company. Just the same as if I were to put the same EULA within a *.wba file. That too has no legal standing. I don't own the file format, Stardock does. What the user does with the images within the file once downloaded is their business, so long as they don't redistribute the images, in any format, without my permission.
Moving away from skins for a moment...If I go out and buy a music CD, I can rip it to my PC, then load it into a personal device without the consent from the muscian. So long as I am not redistributing the muscian's works (file sharing) I am okay. I can even take songs from several artists' CD's and burn a compilation CD to listen to and I'm still in the right. Further still, I can use software to manipulate (re-mix) the songs for my personal taste.
Moving even further away from skins for a moment...I go out and buy a new H2 with my lottery winnings (I can pretend at least
) I can take it to a custom auto shop and have it pimped out without the consent of GM, though they own the H2 design. What I couldn't do is make copies of the H2 in my auto plant (hehe another pipedream) and sell them or give them away.The key in all of this is redistribution
Reply #6 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 3:42 AM
Reply #7 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 3:42 AM
i rarely wander away from WC anymore .. and now i remember why ...
a total shame.
Reply #8 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 3:43 AM
Nevermind, typo fixed.
Reply #11 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:30 AM
Reply #12 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:54 AM
Maybe I'll write an editorial explaining my position and get everyone at customize.org to agree with me, just like you've gotten everyone here to agree with you. Funny how that works. If you can't see my one point, I'm flabberghasted. It's about respecting skinners. That's all. Not about intellectual property, not about illegality, not about Microsoft, not about YOU.
I do take issue with this comment though:
"The reason WinCustomize currently does not have a .msstyles section is because of that issue: Can we condone the distribution of what is borderline pirated files?"
How can you condone porting THOSE SAME PIRATED FILES TO YOUR FORMAT?
Hmmm. Because it'll sell more copies Windowblinds, that's why.
Why not just report this piracy to Microsoft? Because you want in on it. Because Microsoft is busy being influenced by the msstyle skinners, many who call custo home, just like they were influenced by the WB skinners before.
I don't want to be your enemy Brad, not at all. But gee whiz, we were actually ignorant of the feature until your man came into the site and started posting all the "it's happening whether you like it or not" jive.
Have some respect for people man, you know how it stings when people shit on you, don't do it these skinners.
Not much else to say. Really suprised at this post here.
Reply #13 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:56 AM
thats just pathetic..an admin of a site blasting all the skinners of a specific app .. calling their works garbage...
and ive seen frosteds WA skins ...you guys smoke him....
Reply #14 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 5:11 AM
Reply #15 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 5:28 AM
Reply #16 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 5:31 AM
| Maybe I'll write an editorial explaining my position and get everyone at customize.org to agree with me, just like you've gotten everyone here to agree with you. |
Are you serious? As if Brad sent soem heavies round and forced me to agree with him! The only thing Stardock can do to influence my opinion of them is to provide value for any money I may spend on them.
| If you can't see my one point, I'm flabberghasted. It's about respecting skinners. That's all. Not about intellectual property, not about illegality, not about Microsoft, not about YOU. |
And providing a way for a skinner to extend their reach to the wider community with their permission is disrespecting them... how?
Very few of the WB skinners get any kind of payment for what they do. It's a community too.
I suppose you're also against authors of books having their work translated into other languages too?
I've wasted enough bandwidth on this.
Reply #17 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 5:50 AM
| Maybe I'll write an editorial explaining my position and get everyone at customize.org to agree with me, just like you've gotten everyone here to agree with you. |
he didnt have to i read the thread as it was happening ..
and i agreed with him before he wrote this thread....
Reply #18 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 5:57 AM
But still, too bad.
Reply #19 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:01 AM
Reply #20 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:21 AM
Using other people's work in way they did not intend to move more product is slimey. My opinion.
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Reply #1 Wednesday, December 29, 2004 2:54 AM