There are cartoons and cartoons. While there is nothing wrong with animes or manga per say, there are some that borderlines chauvinism or even pronography/paedophilia.

For example, there is nothing wrong with this wallpaper for example, although it is an anime too:

I'm sure you can see the difference in this and the "G4 Girl" or whatever she's called. While, I have nothing against the latter either, I do it's it's borderline, while there is nothing even close to borderline in the above image.

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The title of this thread is "Should such daily shots be allowed?" So, if this pic and others like it has been deemed acceptable for this site, then so be it, but in general, I truly believe we need to be more careful for the childrens sake. As an adult, pics like this do not bother me, but as an adult who works with children who have been abused in every way imaginable, the pic bothers me for them. What I mean is, I think our society has gotten very lax in what we expose our kids to from a very young age. I don't mean to say that we should jump up from our chair and switch the TV channel if something a little inappropriate comes on or cover our kids eyes if they should accidently see something, but I do think we should think about what we blatently display for children to see. Some of the kids I work with were exposed to "Cartoons/anime" (this is how the "conditioning" starts), then later to pornography and the kids are led to believe this is perfectly OK. I'm talking 5,6,7 year olds!! I've heard kids speak sexually explicit words no child that age should now and seen sexually expiciit drawings no child that age should be able to render. I have witnessed children during an emotional crisis regress and re-inact thier abuse. It's too much for an adults heart to bear!
That piece of anime may seem very innocent and "art" to us adults, but to a young child, it could be very stimulating and "conditioning".
Kids now-a-days are soooo differnet from when we were kids. They mature much faster, girls are wearing make-up and acting well beyond thier chronological age, girls and boys are becoming sexually active at a younger age, drug use, alcohol....the list goes on and on. Kids are not innocent any more. Why is this? It's because we (the adults) are becoming lax about letting kids be "kids". We are exposing them to too much adult stuff, and I think we as adults have been "conditioned" to think that that's OK. (im speaking in general terms here. I know there are a lot of good caring adults out there), What saddens me is is that I dont hold much hope of things getting any better for the children, because this is the way society has turned.
I know I have gotten off the original subject of this thread, and I'm sorry, but I just wanted to put in my two cents in general terms.
PS. BoXXI, this is certainly not a personal attack on you

Lady Crissy14, your message was well read. But, I must say that I totally disagree. I believe the problem is not that we are becoming to lax in letting kids be kids, it is that we becoming to lax in morality, discipline, and education. I mean, if girls are able to have babies at eight years old, then sexual education should begin at that age too. Girls are having babies at 8 yrs old! This is a fact, and I believe its a fact that we are running away from. Education is the key not hiding the kids eyes from it. Teach your children whats right and for what reason. The parents blame the school system, and the school system blame the parents. Truly, the parents are responsible in every way. They have stopped the school system from educationg children in every way regarding morality. No priests in public schools. NO morality speeches in schools. NO paddling for discipline in schools. Spare the rod and spoil the child is a fact. We didn't have children shooting children, 30 years ago.

Children are being conditioned to believe that nudity is bad. I believe this is so wrong. Nudity itself, is a very natural thing. Without the perversion, mainly added by our own preoccupation with sex, it is a beautiful thing. It is art.

When someone takes art, cute art, and starts to pervert it, then it becomes something bad. There is no nudity in that Anime. But, Oh My God, the yound girl depicted was cute and she had boobs. So, it is perverted by people who I believe have a serious problem.

I don't believe that there is anything wrong with nudity in art. I think Salvadori is a spectacular artist and he does a lot of nudity. Children see his art all over the world and no one objects to it. The reason being is that it is not being perverted. It is not being shrouded with sexual acts, as most websites depict nudity.

The problem is that society, maybe just American Society, is overly perverted. The internet is overly perverted. Heck, I can't even view Marvel comic art on some sites without being shown sexual acts. Do you think for a minute that our children don't see this? Instead of trying to cover their eyes, we should be teaching them the difference between art and perversion. Perversion is a very mature topic and I believe this is the reason we are afraid of it. But, it is perversion, an obsession with sex, that is causing this problem for our children. People who are so obsessed with sex, that they see it even when there is no nudity, or sexual acts whatsoever. People who are so obsessed with sex, that they have to show it with comic book art. This is what our children are seeing that is doing the damage to them. Children are being misled to believe that sexual acts are as natural, acceptable and as fun as the comic book art. We need to teach them that it is not a natural thing or acceptable for children. Sexual acts are performed by adults to make families. It is not something that babies themselves should be doing. It is wrong for babies to do these things. Babies hurt their parents very much when they do these things. And the babies need to tell their parents and teachers when anyone is trying to make them do these things.

Education is the key to prevention. Not perverting everything ourselves and becoming overly sensitive. I will take it one step further now. Anyone who sees anything sexual in that Anime picture is a pervert.

Now the lady over at AU that keeps posting nude pics of herself now those I feel are inappropriate so they've been deleted (so you guys don't bother running over there)

But these cartoons that stir ppl up of cleavage done artsy I don't see the problem? if you think your kids are not going to see such things in life on this earth you're definetly living in a fantasy of your own.

What Chas just said is true the key I "think" anyways is "explaining to them" since they are individuals sometimes all the explaining in the world won't even matter but you still do your job and be realistic about everything.

didn't wwII bomber planes have "pinup girls" painted on their noses?
strange that no one complained about those, and if you substituted the face of the g4 girl onto one of those images, it'd be no different.

don't get what the big problem is.

Can't believe this thread is still active...

The problem is the super conservative religious right thats imposed on people of the US (and heavily supported here obviously) causing images of (for lack of better description) "scantily clad women" to be BAD.The iconification and objectification thats rampant in the US is the main cause of such utter crap occuring over a "naked body".

Yes, I agree with you, that's not what I was saying really.

But hey, if it is "bad" to you, never pick up a foreign magazine or go to a foreign country with little children. You'll be covering their eyes and locking them away in your hotel room the whole time.

I hope you aren't addressing this part to me. It is not "bad" to me, I've been using the wall in question for years. I read foreign magazines, I have travelled the world, and I am not some conservative religious right person. dear god...

Like your blog, btw.

the yound girl depicted was cute and she had boobs

Therein lies the problem with anime. The 'sexual' depiction of a minor is illegal, and for good reason.

Anyone who sees anything sexual in that Anime picture is a pervert.

I guess the issue is that we are not going to be providing a breeding ground for such 'perverts' by hosting such images.

While parents 'may' be responsible for all the sins of the world, including those perpetuated by our offspring, having no controls what-so-ever on what is, or is not displayed on the site would be a continuation of this failing.

Sure, all sorts of 'nasties' can be seen elsewhere....and good luck to it/them....but they're not going to be seen here.

Just as your lovely, cute rug-rat may know more colourful language than you does not mean its use will be condoned here.

Sure, nudity is natural and healthy...we as adults exercise our rights to choose what 'sort' and how much of it we wish to see, but equally, as adults we are entrusted with the protection of our young [and that of others].

What one person may consider to be draconian repression of free-expression another equally legitimate opinion may be that even the current level of 'control' is too lax.

Generally it is wise to err on the side of caution.

So we do....

You know, when I applied that wall to my desktop, I didn't see a scantily clad female at all, ......really! I only saw the amazing skill of the artist that drew it. I thought it was a great idea, superbly executed. In fact, I have spent more time looking at the hair in that picture than anything else. I can't believe that such a simple image spawned such a complex discussion. Personally, I don't really want to discuss morality here, suffice to say, I have two perfectly adjusted children who live with these "immoral" images on a daily basis.

The thing with kids is, it's how you bring them up. Mine are doing o.k...........................

One other thing..... the first time my 12 year old son saw that picture he said: That's very clever, what program did he make it in?. So, if a 12 year old boy can notice the skill of the artist primarily, what does that say about the people who saw a disgusting image............? Upbringing? Then I feel sorry for them.
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Yes, Bryan....I kinda moved on to generalize about site policy, not that image at all....

Has there been a post removed (other than the one I put providing the link and a mystery one by DWatson) - did I miss the one where someone said the image was disgusting and should be censored ?

Alright Jafo, maybe its time I tell them to start sending Karma Girl the money.

I could be mistaken but I feel folks are coming at this from a lot of different angles and aren't even defining words in the same terms.

Try this and see if it makes sense.

For whatever reason, and we don't no exactly why, the question was asked if a screenshot was suitable for WC.

There's a variety of answers, much reading into of answers things that were never proposed, some backtracking for the sake of harmony etc. I'm fairly sure that the majority of us will start off from the same point - is an image one we feel confident does not lessen the value of children in society (I can only speak in relation to my own British one).

I look at the shot and I have no trouble, as others have, in defining the shot as one which has an overall feel of WWII noseart as seen on Bombers etc - your basic sort of pin-up pose. I do have trouble though being able to say for 100% that the figure without a shadow of a doubt is supposed to represent someone that is over 16rs old.

I don't say it isn't intended to represent someone 16+ its just that the nature of the style defies an absolute interpretation.


Okay why does this matter to me. Well unlike Chas I haven't actually thought of the terms in which he is, while the concerns about how hentai can be used are valid - I placed the question in context of the already conflicting messages we seem to be unable to come to terms with or take responsibility for as adults.

I will assume that most people accept that there are conflicting signals that exist in Western society - many of them simply by natural default as a result of trying to define limits for entire populations.

So we have to learn to somehow live within these mixed messages and yet somehow steer a course that keeps children as safe and healthy as possible.

I know that women have worked hard to redefine themselves and their relationship with Society and that it follows that girls must also learn anew how to prepare for the expanded roles and I suppose we have to learn how to accomodate that safely. I know and support the movement to enshrine in law the respect and rights of children. I am not quite so comfortable with the seeming re-defining of children as young adults.

I wasn't really happy when I saw a documentary with children about 8yrs old talking to each other about their body mass index etc. Although I know and accept girls in particular are traditionally more self aware and experimental, the imperitives seem to have intensified and become more threatening to a healthy Society.

Getting nearer now

We in Britain have a major catalogue store that tried a couple of years ago to sell a range of padded bras and thong sets aimed at an age range including 9yrs old. The link explains it more fully - I'm not sure how reputable the magazine is but from memory the article is pretty accurate.

http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/features/sex/40760

This to me seems a key event - I cannot for the life of me work out how and where the store got the message that this was how we as a Society wanted to start defining our 9yr old children, I am relieved to say that organisations such as Kidscape stepped in and the range was withdrawn. But someone, somewhere must have felt these were the messages society was giving. I can only assume that there are grey/undefined areas in which some people are seeing the opportunity for new markets and it is partly the allowing of mixed messages and a seeming inability to define what is reasonable today that is enabling this push.


Bringing it home now

I seem to be sensing that the present confusion in Society, the mixed messages, the consistent push to market increasingly adult ranges to increasingly younger children and the associative messages that is giving to children about how they should be perceiving themselves is beginning to cause an immense and increasing amount of distress, particularly as they go through their teens. I shan't fall back on statistics, they're unreliable at best I guess - but there does seem to be a recognised trend towards increased eating disorders, self harming etc. I recently attended the funeral of one young cousin who fell foul of feelings of loss of her own identity and threw herself off of a bridge. It wasn't a pleasant way to spend an afternoon.


So do I blame Boxxi for the destruction of our children nope and no-one has and for the record again I think it was in itself a well crafted drawing. No if you read the entire thread fairly you'll see no-one ever reproached Boxxi at all or even asked the image be removed. I myself provided a link - partly in order that people who wished the wall could obtain it from the source and in context.

I simply as an individual do what a previous poster has asked that we all do, I take full responsibility for my actions and don't look to others. I observe our Society and conclude that grey areas generally lead to pushing of barriers that go on to allow previously set limits to become the new grey areas. etc. So for me, as I cannot say for myself that I am 100% sure that the figure in the nose-art pose represents a clearly defined individual of 16+, I feel more comfortable when I choose to define it as a grey area and as such choose not to validate it.


In closing and for the record - I have 2 now grown up step-daughters, check my screenshot its been there for ages you will see I am not opposed to pin-up art. In fact I think that particular wall is titled ppp pick up a pin-up. I have absolutely no religion at all. I am ex Royal Navy (Radio Ops) so Hamburg, Lisbon etc are not a new concept to me and far from conservative when it comes to worrying about what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes, club or chandelier. On the other hand I have also worked for years with damaged, abused and disadvantaged young people and hate to see them placed in situations where they have to try and work out what the rules are for themselves as we as adults have chosen to abdicate our responsibilities. Particularly as increasing amounts of them seem to be failing to do so.

It didn't seem to reactionary a viewpoint.




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The problem is that we live on a dysfunctional planet!

Over here in the U.S. we have nudie bars, and I would venture to say in some over seas countries they have facey bars. Here in the U.S. pornagraphy is a billion dollar a year business, but only a few will every admit to buying pornagraphy. Makes you wonder how we even got here.

I think if women just went topless, it wouldn't be such a big deal and guys would lose interest to some degree...except when they saw a girl with a shirt on...then they would just have to see what they couldn't. Then we would end up with shirty bars. Put it on baby!
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Tell me about it - I remember a coming out of a pub 20 yrs ago and seeing a women leant against the lamp-post. I'd not travelled 10ft before I heard her voice wafting over the still, night-air.

"would you like sooooper sex" I heard the voice ask in a husky voice - well, like a fool I ordered the soup.....

mixed messages are a b**ch.
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MadPyro wonders why this thread is still up???

nothing wrong with that wallpaper except the fact that it is a good lookin girl thats all and some parents may be like WTH? but then again, parents dont understand half the things i do so

You'll be covering their eyes and locking them away in your hotel room the whole time.

even then it would have to be a sound proof hotel and no tvs..

Well, here is my personal opinion on the topic.
I am not in the least concerned about small kids viewing those kind of images, or even full nudity. What I am worried about are the men and the women. Let me explain:

Men: See it or not, admit it or not, those kinds of cartoons use the face of a child on a grown woman's full figure body.  After a while, through repeted viewing, we (men) become accustomed to such an unnatural combination and start to take it for granted.  Naturally aroused by the body, we start to develop a taste for extreme youthful faces, therefore leaning slowly and unperceptibly towards paedophilia.  This is classical conditionning, and it doesn't need to be debated, as it's a fact and it works. Pavlov's dog.

Women: well, I think that images showing women (or girls) as a sexual object is debilitating towards women.  Note that I have nothing against nude art.  In a nude artwork, women are not "posing" naked, or are seldom.  They are rather portrayed executing some routine activity (bathing, sleeping, etc).  Nudity is justified when it makes sense, not when it's the objective. Women are not nor should they be shown as sex toys.

Of course, this is my own personal opinion and I do not force it onto this site. If I personaly disagree with such an image, it is not against this site's policies.

WOW strong words from a smart man. i never thought of it like that...