My response to Bant
Thursday, June 10, 2004 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Popular msstyle author, Bant, has taken his ball and gone home. Seems he's unhappy with the customization community. In particular, he says that TGT Soft and Stardock are a disgrace to the skinning community.
You can read what he wrote here:
http://bant.deviantart.com/journal/2601098/
Bant is the creator of about a half dozen very good msstyles and 1 very good WindowBlinds skin.
Here's my response:
That's odd, I remember back in 1997 when we were designing what would become WindowBlinds and I just can't remember seeing anyone called "Bant".
I remember when the first customization site, Customize.org got started, I don't recall seeing you there. And as the person who made the first skin that skinned the Windows GUI, I tend to think that this CEO of the "disgraceful" Stardock might have contributed something to the customization community.
Now, in the 7 years we've spent working on WindowBlinds, which we provide a free unlimited downloadable version of that works on Windows 95 through Windows XP, I really have a hard time seeing how Stardock is somehow a "disgrace" to the customization community. I see Stardock as a group of people who have spent many many years working very hard to make it easy for people to customize Windows. Before Stardock came along, there was no Windows customization as we know it today. Feel free to go on archive.org and look back as far as you can at customize.org and you'll see what I mean.
And of the software that we don't outright give away as freeware we sell for between $8 and $20 apiece Or about the price of a couple of pizzas.
I also have a hard time seeing how Stardock is a "disgrace" when it put together the GUI Olympics, a contest in which skinners will make up to $15,000 in it.
Or how about the freeware Stardock makes? BootSkin, ObjectDock, CursorXP, LogonStudio, and so on. Who makes more FREE customization software than we do that is anywhere near as widely used? We also pay for a website with no spyware, no popup ads that also supports our competitors. Hell, we host Samurize.com!
Do you think the "customization" community as you know it just sprung up randomly? If it was so obvious, why did it take WindowBlinds to get GUI skinning going (eFX came later). Why weren't there IconPackager-like programs before IconPackager (iconphile and e-icons came later). There's still no CursorXP equivalent. There's still nothing quite like DesktopX, which, btw, is a free download and uncrippled. There's no WindowFX equivalent (beyond a few programs that add a few shadows).
Stardock has worked very hard to contribute quite a bit to the customization community. It creates a ton of freeware programs and its non-freeware programs are priced trivially.
And Stardock, as a group, participates actively in the community (such as me here and on Neowin and dozens of other websites).
There are also skin authors now who are able to make a living creating skins.
But more to the point, the skins didn't come first, the software did. The software is there for fun. People (like me) make skins because we enjoy doing it. Just like they make levels for Counterstrike or maps for Warcraft III or mods for Neverwinternights. Most people don't sweat that some developer might make money on it. It's supposed to be for fun.
I'm sorry to see you go, I think you have a lot of potential as a skinner. But I take issue with you saying Stardock is a "disgrace".
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Reply #23 Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:41 PM
Next in line?
Reply #24 Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:46 PM
It's not so much that it matters but rather if you let a misconception fester it tends to become fact.
A couple of years ago a product was released that claimed that it, as if by magic, consumed "0 resources" in its "skinning". We didn't bother to respond to that for a long while since we thought that it was obvious that such a claim was absurd.
But then, over time, people started parroting that claim and to quite a few people now, they believe things like msstyles not consuming any resources to be true.
Similarly, there is already the kernel of belief with some that there was this big skinning community and then out of the blue these parasitic software companies jumped in and started cashing in on the hard work of artists. We can't let such an untruth fester because over time, it may take on a reality of its own.
The fact of the matter is that the skinning community as it exists today is because of a combination of commercial software developers and artists working together. Companies such as Stardock didn't jump into some pre-existing community, it was there at the very beginning when the "community" was so small that you knew every person in it by name (i.e. dozens of people).
Reply #25 Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:52 PM
Nip it in the butt...that''''s my motto
[Message Edited]
Reply #26 Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:53 PM
If the people in the community don't keep working to make it a community, but rather have the attitude that it's all a big corporate machine, who will be left to make it a community.
Sure, some people will give up and blame it on the software companies, but maybe that's just an excuse of not wanting to put the effort in.
Reply #27 Thursday, June 10, 2004 11:02 PM
Reply #28 Friday, June 11, 2004 8:24 AM
Reply #29 Friday, June 11, 2004 9:01 AM
Reply #30 Friday, June 11, 2004 11:56 AM
there is a degree of cooperation between Stardock and Microsoft, but msstles was a fully Microsoft development.
Reply #31 Friday, June 11, 2004 3:46 PM
Reply #32 Friday, June 11, 2004 5:08 PM
and well it looks like yet another one bites the dust, and most likely others will spring up in his place.
Reply #33 Friday, June 11, 2004 5:41 PM
Reply #34 Friday, June 11, 2004 5:42 PM
Sure Stardock is in it to make money, but who isn't working to make money. Open source and free software are nice ideas, but in the end it doesn't last without some money. Even so Stardock has done its share to support the community in ways that don't require money.
I think some people are so afraid of admitting they are wrong, that that is why they continue to spout off incorrectly about Stardock. If anything TGTSoft I think deserves anger to be shot towards it for charging for a hack that can be obtained freely. To me that is deceptive. However since there is a market out there apparently for the gullible, they survive.
... I too remember Neoplanet. It was a shame it died, it had some nice ideas. Perhaps it arrived at the wrong time, seeing as alternative browsers are much more in vogue now.
Reply #35 Friday, June 11, 2004 7:11 PM
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Reply #21 Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:28 PM