IMPORTANT: A Call To All Citizens, Apprentices, Scribes, Journeymen, and Admins:
Thursday, March 25, 2004 by macrobaye | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
THERE'S AN EPIDEMIC ON OUR HANDS!
Now before you go on thinking what I know you all are thinking, this isn't a rant about ratings or rejections. I'm calling all of you to go on a mission. I've noticed that there are a tremendous amount of skins that are accepted to this site that receive only 1 rating, which is the rating of the Admin, usually the default 6. THIS IS INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING! Even to me! Now most of my skins have been rated multiple times, so this isn't about me,
THIS IS ABOUT THE WHOLE COMMUNITY
WinCustomize is a thriving community, and as the most recent poll points out, this community is becoming more and more popular every day. This means there are new members, downloads, and skinners every single day. With this comes great responsibility on our parts. When a new member decides to upload something, he wants feedback, even if it's not as favorable as he/she had hoped. When they see the default rating appear upon it's uploading, and when they see that rating remain unchanged, there is a feeling of isolation... especially when the more well known users in this community end up with 15 or so ratings.
THE NEW WILL CARRY THE MESSAGE OF THE OLD
How can we survive if we do not show a sign of hospitality to the new members? We need to show as much consideration as possible. More ratings, both good and bad, are BETTER than fewer ratings, because it shows not only that we care about the new members' efforts, but also that there is much room and appreciation for improvement.
DON'T WORRY, CITIZENS, YOU CAN DO YOUR PART TOO!
Nothing says thank you like leaving a comment. I've noticed that there is a horribly large number of new submissions that go seemingly unnoticed, despite what may be a good number of downloads. If you like what you see, SHOW YOUR APPRECIATION! If you don't, tell them how they can improve! Because when members, both new and old, upload something that receives no comments, they either feel neglected, or they feel like everything is ok (when, and I shutter to think, things, i.e. the work, may not be).
With over 1,000,000 members and tens of thousands of skins available, the future looks bright for WC. But don't let things just roll along. You can feed this fire everyday...
SO I CALL OUT TO ALL CITIZENS, APPRENTICES, JOURNEYMEN, SCRIBES, AND ADMINS:
DO YOUR PART! RATE, COMMENT, AND SHOW YOUR SUPPORT! SHOW WHY THIS IS THE BEST COMMUNITY ON THE INTERNET...PERIOD.
Now before you go on thinking what I know you all are thinking, this isn't a rant about ratings or rejections. I'm calling all of you to go on a mission. I've noticed that there are a tremendous amount of skins that are accepted to this site that receive only 1 rating, which is the rating of the Admin, usually the default 6. THIS IS INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING! Even to me! Now most of my skins have been rated multiple times, so this isn't about me,
THIS IS ABOUT THE WHOLE COMMUNITY
WinCustomize is a thriving community, and as the most recent poll points out, this community is becoming more and more popular every day. This means there are new members, downloads, and skinners every single day. With this comes great responsibility on our parts. When a new member decides to upload something, he wants feedback, even if it's not as favorable as he/she had hoped. When they see the default rating appear upon it's uploading, and when they see that rating remain unchanged, there is a feeling of isolation... especially when the more well known users in this community end up with 15 or so ratings.
THE NEW WILL CARRY THE MESSAGE OF THE OLD
How can we survive if we do not show a sign of hospitality to the new members? We need to show as much consideration as possible. More ratings, both good and bad, are BETTER than fewer ratings, because it shows not only that we care about the new members' efforts, but also that there is much room and appreciation for improvement.
DON'T WORRY, CITIZENS, YOU CAN DO YOUR PART TOO!
Nothing says thank you like leaving a comment. I've noticed that there is a horribly large number of new submissions that go seemingly unnoticed, despite what may be a good number of downloads. If you like what you see, SHOW YOUR APPRECIATION! If you don't, tell them how they can improve! Because when members, both new and old, upload something that receives no comments, they either feel neglected, or they feel like everything is ok (when, and I shutter to think, things, i.e. the work, may not be).
With over 1,000,000 members and tens of thousands of skins available, the future looks bright for WC. But don't let things just roll along. You can feed this fire everyday...
SO I CALL OUT TO ALL CITIZENS, APPRENTICES, JOURNEYMEN, SCRIBES, AND ADMINS:
DO YOUR PART! RATE, COMMENT, AND SHOW YOUR SUPPORT! SHOW WHY THIS IS THE BEST COMMUNITY ON THE INTERNET...PERIOD.
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macrobaye
Reply #42 Friday, March 26, 2004 8:57 PM
This is perhaps the most important thing to insure the future of WC!!!!!!!
If we do not encourage new users, by rating skins, but most importantly (and unmentioned in your post, by the way) BY POSTING COMMENTS, WC will be a festering heap of banality, run by old farts and washed up skinners (ha ha, take it lightly)!!!
The futire lies in the hands of new members. Most skinners, when they start, are probably not very good.. it takes help from other members to boost their knowledge and determination to improve! This is perhaps the most important thread I've seen in a while, and certainly the only one desev-ed of being sticky (the other's were, once, but have been there for a LONG time!)...it's time for some rotation.
So please, if you're not gonna make this s sticky thread, then KEEP IT ALIVE! If you don't, I will!
Reply #42 Friday, March 26, 2004 8:57 PM
| #41 by Sir kongit - 3/26/2004 8:46:05 PM I don't think this should be a sticky thread. It isn't vitally important and mostly affects those who can rate. Most of the people that can rate have an understanding about ratings, and those thay don't understand can always ask. Additionally if those that can rate already do or don't give a flying rats ass. While good in intent I don't think this thread will make non-voters convert. Lastly I dislike sticky threads and wish that there were less than there are now. |
This is perhaps the most important thing to insure the future of WC!!!!!!!
If we do not encourage new users, by rating skins, but most importantly (and unmentioned in your post, by the way) BY POSTING COMMENTS, WC will be a festering heap of banality, run by old farts and washed up skinners (ha ha, take it lightly)!!!
The futire lies in the hands of new members. Most skinners, when they start, are probably not very good.. it takes help from other members to boost their knowledge and determination to improve! This is perhaps the most important thread I've seen in a while, and certainly the only one desev-ed of being sticky (the other's were, once, but have been there for a LONG time!)...it's time for some rotation.
So please, if you're not gonna make this s sticky thread, then KEEP IT ALIVE! If you don't, I will!
Koasati
Reply #43 Friday, March 26, 2004 9:25 PM
Reply #43 Friday, March 26, 2004 9:25 PM
Well, I wasn't going to stick it, simply because stickies seem to get overlooked, but hey........... there you go!
kongit
Reply #44 Friday, March 26, 2004 9:32 PM
Reply #44 Friday, March 26, 2004 9:32 PM
I think it is great that you are trying to make this site better, and I am all for getting people to post more and better comments and for more and responsible rating, however I question the usefulness of this thread being sticky. I think that stickies should be for ease of use and not informative purposes. Stickies should be made for threads that people either want to read or want to post in without the person having to go looking it for it. The desktops thread is a good thread. The only type of informative thread I can think of is one that is specifically about the board that it is in, addressing problems or rules for that specific board.
wstaylor
Reply #45 Friday, March 26, 2004 10:23 PM
What about the IMPORTANT: Wallpaper rejection thread? should that be sticky??
Reply #45 Friday, March 26, 2004 10:23 PM
| I think that stickies should be for ease of use and not informative purposes. |
What about the IMPORTANT: Wallpaper rejection thread? should that be sticky??
bluesman219
Reply #46 Saturday, March 27, 2004 2:44 AM
Reply #46 Saturday, March 27, 2004 2:44 AM
Ok everyone here it goes. I am not a skinner, but I enjoy and I am fascinated with this type of art. Yes I said art. I love this site and have been coming here for close to a yr., which by the way is about how long I've had my 'puter. I'm digressing.
I look at many different pieces of work here and comment/rate on occasion. Not being a skinner though does tend to make you hesitate sometimes on commenting, not that I don't believe I can't see quality,or artistry, but because I don't know how you do this.
That said, having been a musician and photographer over the last 30 odd yrs. and being around friends that are talented in different forms of art I feel I have a little something I can give.
I will make a concerted effort to either rate,comment or both more frequently.
I do agree with jortheblow, I don't like to rate or comment on something I don't d/l. although I do occasionally.
Ok, I'm done. Ifeel better now. Thanks for this thread macrobaye.
I look at many different pieces of work here and comment/rate on occasion. Not being a skinner though does tend to make you hesitate sometimes on commenting, not that I don't believe I can't see quality,or artistry, but because I don't know how you do this.
That said, having been a musician and photographer over the last 30 odd yrs. and being around friends that are talented in different forms of art I feel I have a little something I can give.
I will make a concerted effort to either rate,comment or both more frequently.
I do agree with jortheblow, I don't like to rate or comment on something I don't d/l. although I do occasionally.
Ok, I'm done. Ifeel better now. Thanks for this thread macrobaye.
Lord Doskias
Reply #47 Saturday, March 27, 2004 3:14 AM
Reply #47 Saturday, March 27, 2004 3:14 AM
i will also try to rate new files that pass through and we may all have our own style of rating, but that just makes this site even better.
when you think about it, we are all different and because of that, we are likely to all give different ratings for different reasons and that can only improve the site.
rating a file should not always be based on the way it looks. if you're talking about wallpapers, then yes, it should matter. but when you are talking about more complex things such as LiteStep, for example. things that can be customized. those things should be looked at more closely. to have a truely "good" rating, you need to experience the file in the fullest. 'how does this wallpaper show up on my desktop. i cant see my icons' 'how well does this shell work. does it have many glitches'
many of you seem to forget that there are 2, TWO, parts to rating a file. there is the rating itself, and the comments. i see a fair amount of ratings, but there are not so many comments is seems as ratings. and what i meant was meaningful comments. anybody can post a comment and say "this sucks" or "this totally rocks make another", but what is missing is the vital information that explains to the creator what you think is missing. how can anybody create something good if you dont tell them what you like? if you were all to do what macrobaye has called you to do, you would also read the comments as you rate files. and in doing this, you would see what other people like and so you would all know what there is a demand for. it's almost a 'self poll'
it would seem that as this community grows, we rate files more on how they look and less on how they 'work' and it may work for us, but it gives a false impression and the more we do it, the less it means and that's one of the reasons we have this 'rally cry'
sry for the lengthy post, im a bit bored but i feel it is almost necessary
when you think about it, we are all different and because of that, we are likely to all give different ratings for different reasons and that can only improve the site.
| Rating a skin based on the screenshot is worse than not rating |
rating a file should not always be based on the way it looks. if you're talking about wallpapers, then yes, it should matter. but when you are talking about more complex things such as LiteStep, for example. things that can be customized. those things should be looked at more closely. to have a truely "good" rating, you need to experience the file in the fullest. 'how does this wallpaper show up on my desktop. i cant see my icons' 'how well does this shell work. does it have many glitches'
many of you seem to forget that there are 2, TWO, parts to rating a file. there is the rating itself, and the comments. i see a fair amount of ratings, but there are not so many comments is seems as ratings. and what i meant was meaningful comments. anybody can post a comment and say "this sucks" or "this totally rocks make another", but what is missing is the vital information that explains to the creator what you think is missing. how can anybody create something good if you dont tell them what you like? if you were all to do what macrobaye has called you to do, you would also read the comments as you rate files. and in doing this, you would see what other people like and so you would all know what there is a demand for. it's almost a 'self poll'
it would seem that as this community grows, we rate files more on how they look and less on how they 'work' and it may work for us, but it gives a false impression and the more we do it, the less it means and that's one of the reasons we have this 'rally cry'
sry for the lengthy post, im a bit bored but i feel it is almost necessary
wulfn1
Reply #48 Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:13 AM
Reply #48 Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:13 AM
Thanks for the sticky!
like Marcobae, I planned to keep it alive too. think it's something worth considering.
even if people don't begin to comment and rate every single skin, it will at least jog enough people to action that we should see a considerable rise in helpful information and begin to see a more unified ratings practice.
you and I both know there will always be someone around who rates based on popularity of skinner, or comments specifically to dampen the mood of others, but now there will be more of a balance between those and people who take the time and effort to be constructive and supportive.
like Marcobae, I planned to keep it alive too. think it's something worth considering.
even if people don't begin to comment and rate every single skin, it will at least jog enough people to action that we should see a considerable rise in helpful information and begin to see a more unified ratings practice.
you and I both know there will always be someone around who rates based on popularity of skinner, or comments specifically to dampen the mood of others, but now there will be more of a balance between those and people who take the time and effort to be constructive and supportive.
Latin4567
Reply #49 Saturday, March 27, 2004 2:04 PM
Reply #49 Saturday, March 27, 2004 2:04 PM
The only comments I get are from an exiled guy
Ok I also had 3 compliments but I should have more constructive comments considering i have 1500 downloads overal
Ok I also had 3 compliments but I should have more constructive comments considering i have 1500 downloads overal
Latin4567
Reply #50 Saturday, March 27, 2004 2:05 PM
(They are rather rude)
Reply #50 Saturday, March 27, 2004 2:05 PM
| The only comments I get are from an exiled guy |
(They are rather rude)
kona0197
Reply #51 Saturday, March 27, 2004 3:39 PM
Reply #51 Saturday, March 27, 2004 3:39 PM
well I do my part and rate what I use.
However, I do not rate wallpapers as most I use do not come from here but I will try to rate more often as I like people to rate mine.
However, I do not rate wallpapers as most I use do not come from here but I will try to rate more often as I like people to rate mine.
Apocalypse_67
Reply #52 Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:40 PM
Reply #52 Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:40 PM
Latin4567, for the past couple of days we have all heard you rambling about your designs, your downloads, your ratings, etc.
You have spammed and flooded threads with somewhat useless posts. Most of your uploaded work has been commented by you alone.
You need to learn patience and let people comment good or bad on their own and not because you ask them to.
You seem to strive for attention and honestly, it is not a good task to practice in a forum community as the result will lead to flame comments and people ignoring you all together.
So please stop making all the threads your own personal promotion platform and do something constructive with your time.
You have spammed and flooded threads with somewhat useless posts. Most of your uploaded work has been commented by you alone.
You need to learn patience and let people comment good or bad on their own and not because you ask them to.
You seem to strive for attention and honestly, it is not a good task to practice in a forum community as the result will lead to flame comments and people ignoring you all together.
So please stop making all the threads your own personal promotion platform and do something constructive with your time.
f0rTyLeGz
Reply #53 Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:40 PM
Reply #53 Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:40 PM
I appreciate this thread, and marveled long ago (in dog-years) that there seems to be one comment for every 300-400 downloads... and WHO is doing all this downloading with no comments? I was pretty much told that this is normal NEWBIE! This seems true, and I just make walls (the easy one's that anyone can make with a digital camera), but I have gone back and rated the skins I use, and left messages to those super skinners that have cheered me for years... thanks again!
For a laugh here is the last comment I received #44,
https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=8&SkinID=15555
For a laugh here is the last comment I received #44,
| This deadlight is awwwwwful! by Citizen Sadaam Insane - 3/24/2004 4:25:36 AM |
https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=8&SkinID=15555
macrobaye
Reply #54 Saturday, March 27, 2004 7:15 PM
Reply #54 Saturday, March 27, 2004 7:15 PM
Yea, Saddam Insane like to leave some pretty rediculous comments... here's one of an UPDATE of one of my walls:
And that was for a skin that (used to) has an 8 rating! I guess he's just another suicidal newb...
I can't resist, this absolutely Ugly!  by Citizen Sadaam Insane - 3/26/2004 5:29:12 AM |
And that was for a skin that (used to) has an 8 rating! I guess he's just another suicidal newb...
Lord Doskias
Reply #55 Sunday, March 28, 2004 8:48 PM
Reply #55 Sunday, March 28, 2004 8:48 PM
maybe we'd all be better off if he blew himself up...
goodmorphing
Reply #56 Monday, March 29, 2004 12:03 AM
Reply #56 Monday, March 29, 2004 12:03 AM
Rating and commenting is not as simple as it seems. I used to rate and comment a lot. I downloaded everything, tried it out, then commented. Then there were so many threads in the community, so much discord. I actually started getting email asking for specific rates. I got email telling me it was more correct to submit a rating compensating for a someone else's *way too low* rate, than it was to rate by my own evaluation. I even got email noticing that I hadn't commented. Some emails seemed to imply I was doing something wrong when I hadn't commented this when my life elsewhere got rather involved and sad.
These days I am trying to recover from everything. I do comment and rate on some things, always after I download and play with them some. I comment and rate on stuff I tested. But always, now, when I write a comment i get a twinge of guilt (and worry because I have had the experience of those emails) for not commenting on everything. It never used to be that way. It used to be an adventure, something good to try out all the skins and point out what I liked.
I have lots of friends in the community who tell me how disillusioned they are. I know several who have written that they no longer plan to submit their work due to trolls (I have seen too many *this sucks* comments to really blame them for feeling the way they do).
I know that the more people who comment and rate the better it is. The more valid rates a skin has, the less a trollish prank will affect the skin. Yet, I am almost always in deep conflict when I do stop to comment or rate. I imagine when I get more distance from my own personal troubles it will be easier. But it never ever had to be this way.
One thing I wanted to mention about rating stuff without testing it. Especially for the DX stuff... it is impossible to tell at a glance all the hidden wonders and delights that can be accomplished with thoughtful and skillful scripiting. I can think of several objects that are flat out amazing once you try them that really don't look like much by the screenie. IMO it's a mistake to rate without trying something.
I have also read discussions about the lowered level of creativity and originality in themes these days. I think we can look forward to more of the same as good people get burned out and stop submitting. Good, solid, honest ratings in numbers that defeat the effect of trollish ratings is important and should be encouraged. But the process has to be clear, fair, transparent, and secure.
[Message Edited]
These days I am trying to recover from everything. I do comment and rate on some things, always after I download and play with them some. I comment and rate on stuff I tested. But always, now, when I write a comment i get a twinge of guilt (and worry because I have had the experience of those emails) for not commenting on everything. It never used to be that way. It used to be an adventure, something good to try out all the skins and point out what I liked. I have lots of friends in the community who tell me how disillusioned they are. I know several who have written that they no longer plan to submit their work due to trolls (I have seen too many *this sucks* comments to really blame them for feeling the way they do).
I know that the more people who comment and rate the better it is. The more valid rates a skin has, the less a trollish prank will affect the skin. Yet, I am almost always in deep conflict when I do stop to comment or rate. I imagine when I get more distance from my own personal troubles it will be easier. But it never ever had to be this way.
One thing I wanted to mention about rating stuff without testing it. Especially for the DX stuff... it is impossible to tell at a glance all the hidden wonders and delights that can be accomplished with thoughtful and skillful scripiting. I can think of several objects that are flat out amazing once you try them that really don't look like much by the screenie. IMO it's a mistake to rate without trying something.
I have also read discussions about the lowered level of creativity and originality in themes these days. I think we can look forward to more of the same as good people get burned out and stop submitting. Good, solid, honest ratings in numbers that defeat the effect of trollish ratings is important and should be encouraged. But the process has to be clear, fair, transparent, and secure.
[Message Edited]
Graypony
Reply #58 Monday, March 29, 2004 8:05 AM
Reply #58 Monday, March 29, 2004 8:05 AM
On the few skins I have posted, I could (couldn't?) care less about "ratings". What tells me what I want to know is 1) the DL number increasing and 2) the comments (which generally stop after the 1st few days). Ratings-shmatings! hehe
DesignCaddy
Reply #59 Monday, March 29, 2004 2:23 PM
Reply #59 Monday, March 29, 2004 2:23 PM
so.. who is sadam insane..?
i noticed him when he commented on a couple of my walls. he didn't like them to each his own. but as i ran down the list i saw that he did not have a nice thing to say about *any* of the walls. do you think he is really dissatisfied, or trying to get a rise out of people?
i noticed him when he commented on a couple of my walls. he didn't like them to each his own. but as i ran down the list i saw that he did not have a nice thing to say about *any* of the walls. do you think he is really dissatisfied, or trying to get a rise out of people?
NightTrainthedark
Reply #60 Monday, March 29, 2004 3:56 PM
Reply #60 Monday, March 29, 2004 3:56 PM
The guy's/gal's name is sadam insane. I think he chose well. He is a complete nut that is only trying to stir you up. Just continue with life as if he does not even exist. The only way to deal with jerks like that is DON"T!
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Reply #41 Friday, March 26, 2004 8:46 PM
Lastly I dislike sticky threads and wish that there were less than there are now.