IMPORTANT: A Call To All Citizens, Apprentices, Scribes, Journeymen, and Admins:
Thursday, March 25, 2004 by macrobaye | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
THERE'S AN EPIDEMIC ON OUR HANDS!
Now before you go on thinking what I know you all are thinking, this isn't a rant about ratings or rejections. I'm calling all of you to go on a mission. I've noticed that there are a tremendous amount of skins that are accepted to this site that receive only 1 rating, which is the rating of the Admin, usually the default 6. THIS IS INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING! Even to me! Now most of my skins have been rated multiple times, so this isn't about me,
THIS IS ABOUT THE WHOLE COMMUNITY
WinCustomize is a thriving community, and as the most recent poll points out, this community is becoming more and more popular every day. This means there are new members, downloads, and skinners every single day. With this comes great responsibility on our parts. When a new member decides to upload something, he wants feedback, even if it's not as favorable as he/she had hoped. When they see the default rating appear upon it's uploading, and when they see that rating remain unchanged, there is a feeling of isolation... especially when the more well known users in this community end up with 15 or so ratings.
THE NEW WILL CARRY THE MESSAGE OF THE OLD
How can we survive if we do not show a sign of hospitality to the new members? We need to show as much consideration as possible. More ratings, both good and bad, are BETTER than fewer ratings, because it shows not only that we care about the new members' efforts, but also that there is much room and appreciation for improvement.
DON'T WORRY, CITIZENS, YOU CAN DO YOUR PART TOO!
Nothing says thank you like leaving a comment. I've noticed that there is a horribly large number of new submissions that go seemingly unnoticed, despite what may be a good number of downloads. If you like what you see, SHOW YOUR APPRECIATION! If you don't, tell them how they can improve! Because when members, both new and old, upload something that receives no comments, they either feel neglected, or they feel like everything is ok (when, and I shutter to think, things, i.e. the work, may not be).
With over 1,000,000 members and tens of thousands of skins available, the future looks bright for WC. But don't let things just roll along. You can feed this fire everyday...
SO I CALL OUT TO ALL CITIZENS, APPRENTICES, JOURNEYMEN, SCRIBES, AND ADMINS:
DO YOUR PART! RATE, COMMENT, AND SHOW YOUR SUPPORT! SHOW WHY THIS IS THE BEST COMMUNITY ON THE INTERNET...PERIOD.
Now before you go on thinking what I know you all are thinking, this isn't a rant about ratings or rejections. I'm calling all of you to go on a mission. I've noticed that there are a tremendous amount of skins that are accepted to this site that receive only 1 rating, which is the rating of the Admin, usually the default 6. THIS IS INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING! Even to me! Now most of my skins have been rated multiple times, so this isn't about me,
THIS IS ABOUT THE WHOLE COMMUNITY
WinCustomize is a thriving community, and as the most recent poll points out, this community is becoming more and more popular every day. This means there are new members, downloads, and skinners every single day. With this comes great responsibility on our parts. When a new member decides to upload something, he wants feedback, even if it's not as favorable as he/she had hoped. When they see the default rating appear upon it's uploading, and when they see that rating remain unchanged, there is a feeling of isolation... especially when the more well known users in this community end up with 15 or so ratings.
THE NEW WILL CARRY THE MESSAGE OF THE OLD
How can we survive if we do not show a sign of hospitality to the new members? We need to show as much consideration as possible. More ratings, both good and bad, are BETTER than fewer ratings, because it shows not only that we care about the new members' efforts, but also that there is much room and appreciation for improvement.
DON'T WORRY, CITIZENS, YOU CAN DO YOUR PART TOO!
Nothing says thank you like leaving a comment. I've noticed that there is a horribly large number of new submissions that go seemingly unnoticed, despite what may be a good number of downloads. If you like what you see, SHOW YOUR APPRECIATION! If you don't, tell them how they can improve! Because when members, both new and old, upload something that receives no comments, they either feel neglected, or they feel like everything is ok (when, and I shutter to think, things, i.e. the work, may not be).
With over 1,000,000 members and tens of thousands of skins available, the future looks bright for WC. But don't let things just roll along. You can feed this fire everyday...
SO I CALL OUT TO ALL CITIZENS, APPRENTICES, JOURNEYMEN, SCRIBES, AND ADMINS:
DO YOUR PART! RATE, COMMENT, AND SHOW YOUR SUPPORT! SHOW WHY THIS IS THE BEST COMMUNITY ON THE INTERNET...PERIOD.
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wulfn1
Reply #24 Friday, March 26, 2004 11:44 AM
Reply #24 Friday, March 26, 2004 11:44 AM
just keeping the thread active.
I do download skins and try them, even if they don't appeal to me much. though I first read the comments to see if there's inherent problems to begin with. sooo comments are VERY important, to me.
I do download skins and try them, even if they don't appeal to me much. though I first read the comments to see if there's inherent problems to begin with. sooo comments are VERY important, to me.
macrobaye
Reply #26 Friday, March 26, 2004 1:02 PM
Reply #26 Friday, March 26, 2004 1:02 PM
Well I'm not sure about the rest of you, but for every new submission that is displayed in the Newest Additions window, I will rate and comment.
That's a promise. I hope other will join in this, because we really need to do a better job of welcoming new submissions with open arms.
That's a promise. I hope other will join in this, because we really need to do a better job of welcoming new submissions with open arms.
c242
Reply #27 Friday, March 26, 2004 2:15 PM
Reply #27 Friday, March 26, 2004 2:15 PM
macrobye : Will You use every submission, too ? Because without that no real rating is possible. Speaking for me personally I have no time for that, because I have a real life also...
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
macrobaye
Reply #28 Friday, March 26, 2004 2:44 PM
Reply #28 Friday, March 26, 2004 2:44 PM
Of course not. That would be impossible. But I can still rate skins based on appeal, time taken to do the work, and how it appeals to my tastes, all without using the skins.
The skins are tested by Admins in the beginning... that is how they even pass moderation in the first place.
The skins are tested by Admins in the beginning... that is how they even pass moderation in the first place.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #29 Friday, March 26, 2004 2:56 PM
Reply #29 Friday, March 26, 2004 2:56 PM
Im not getting the feeling that the rally cry is working. I have 2 skins on the newest additons list. 4 comments related to the skins, 1 rating on 1 skin and 3 on the other. Going through the skins and rating and commenting is work sometimes but Its also a responsibilty. Hopefully this is staying on topic but Is it ok to rate skins without downloading them? I don't think it's a true reading on the skin. Especially with boot skins because alot are showing a nice screenshot that isn't the real 16 color image. I tend not to rate unless I have tried something out but It is alot of time sorting through everything trying it all out. I don't know. I guess I am looking to be told what to do. Evryone that reads this post is hereby ordered to go and rate one of my skins. 
Koasati
Reply #30 Friday, March 26, 2004 3:14 PM
Reply #30 Friday, March 26, 2004 3:14 PM
| #27 by c242 - 3/26/2004 2:15:24 PM macrobye : Will You use every submission, too ? Because without that no real rating is possible. Speaking for me personally I have no time for that, because I have a real life also... [Message Edited] #28 by Sir macrobaye - 3/26/2004 2:44:23 PM Of course not. That would be impossible. But I can still rate skins based on appeal, time taken to do the work, and how it appeals to my tastes, all without using the skins. The skins are tested by Admins in the beginning... that is how they even pass moderation in the first place. |
Rating a skin based on the screenshot is worse than not rating IMHO 
c242
Reply #31 Friday, March 26, 2004 3:38 PM
Reply #31 Friday, March 26, 2004 3:38 PM
Exactly what I meant ! Therefore this thread is rather useless besides for walls and screenshots.
Bones2112
Reply #32 Friday, March 26, 2004 4:00 PM
Reply #32 Friday, March 26, 2004 4:00 PM
Not really a waste if done properly. I just dowloaded and used one of NightTrain002's skins. And I used paxx's guide to rate it. Not everbody starts off skinning like treetog or hippy or mikeb314. Some constructive criticism from the masters would be welcomed instead of the silence we now endure. How are new skinners to better their abilities without the help of those that came before them? Maybe there wouldn't be as much Junk as it is called, in the libraries if some people stepped up and commented
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
c242
Reply #33 Friday, March 26, 2004 4:12 PM
Reply #33 Friday, March 26, 2004 4:12 PM
I still think many people can't wait long enough before submitting their first skin. Most people are not able to self-moderate their submissions anymore. How many things are on my HD never uploaded or even shown, what do You think ?
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
macrobaye
Reply #36 Friday, March 26, 2004 5:51 PM
Not at all. Obviosuly walls and screenshots are just viewable and nothing more, but other "viewable" categories are ObjectDock, Graphics, many DX Objects, etc.
Everyone has their own system of rating, so mine may be a little different. But honestly, if a skin has problems such as the scrollbars aren't aligned, or other techinal problems, the author always has time to fix them... so rating a skin based on that is kind of redundant. That goes for WB mostly, because it's the look that counts not functionality (because they all have *mostly* the same features).
Other skins might not be that easy to rate based on looks alone, but with Icons, Walls, WB skins, and skins that you cant really experiment with, it's really fine to rate without downloadint them first.
Reply #36 Friday, March 26, 2004 5:51 PM
| Therefore this thread is rather useless besides for walls and screenshots. |
Not at all. Obviosuly walls and screenshots are just viewable and nothing more, but other "viewable" categories are ObjectDock, Graphics, many DX Objects, etc.
Everyone has their own system of rating, so mine may be a little different. But honestly, if a skin has problems such as the scrollbars aren't aligned, or other techinal problems, the author always has time to fix them... so rating a skin based on that is kind of redundant. That goes for WB mostly, because it's the look that counts not functionality (because they all have *mostly* the same features).
Other skins might not be that easy to rate based on looks alone, but with Icons, Walls, WB skins, and skins that you cant really experiment with, it's really fine to rate without downloadint them first.
Apocalypse_67
Reply #37 Friday, March 26, 2004 7:18 PM
Reply #37 Friday, March 26, 2004 7:18 PM
As mentioned, walls and screenshots are the only 2 sections of the library that can be rated 'on the fly' since they don’t need to be run by a program to test how they work.
The rest of the skins MUST be downloaded, installed and tested before any type of comment or rating can be awarded.
I read a lot of 'This sucks' or 'This is crap' by people that I can bet my life have not downloaded (or even have the program to run the skin) but yet they feel that they have the expertise to make such comment and rate just by looking at a screenshot.
And just to add, I believe the purpose of the thread is to motivate people to be more supportive by adding comments and ratings to the skins they download. I've seen skins that have 50.000+ download and only 20 comments and 12 ratings.
So if you have the privilege of commenting and rating, and you have downloaded and tried a skin, just extend your gratitude to the artist with a comment and a rating.
It won’t kill you.
The rest of the skins MUST be downloaded, installed and tested before any type of comment or rating can be awarded.
I read a lot of 'This sucks' or 'This is crap' by people that I can bet my life have not downloaded (or even have the program to run the skin) but yet they feel that they have the expertise to make such comment and rate just by looking at a screenshot.
And just to add, I believe the purpose of the thread is to motivate people to be more supportive by adding comments and ratings to the skins they download. I've seen skins that have 50.000+ download and only 20 comments and 12 ratings.
So if you have the privilege of commenting and rating, and you have downloaded and tried a skin, just extend your gratitude to the artist with a comment and a rating.
It won’t kill you.
Essencay
Reply #38 Friday, March 26, 2004 7:21 PM
I generally don't rate a lot of new work, but I also don't download a lot of the new stuff. I have my favorite authors, who have been around for a bazillion years and already get umpteen jillion comments. I will make an effort to rate more of the WB skins from newer authors (since I really don't use much of the other parts of ODNT), but only after downloading. What's the point of a rating of a WB skin if you didn't at least run it through it's paces? Best thing for a new skinner is to know what's a little goofed up that can be easily fixed and by downloading it and letting them know, most will be appreciative of being able to fix something in their skin that they didn't realized could be done.
As for time taken to do a skin. I could produce a skin with a level of "graphical appeal" that would take me three or four weeks to do, while a treetog could do the same level of graphics, probably in a day. So you really can't judge a skin on time taken to do the work unless you know the author very well and know his/her capabilities.
That's just my two cents
Reply #38 Friday, March 26, 2004 7:21 PM
| Of course not. That would be impossible. But I can still rate skins based on appeal, time taken to do the work, and how it appeals to my tastes, all without using the skins. |
I generally don't rate a lot of new work, but I also don't download a lot of the new stuff. I have my favorite authors, who have been around for a bazillion years and already get umpteen jillion comments. I will make an effort to rate more of the WB skins from newer authors (since I really don't use much of the other parts of ODNT), but only after downloading. What's the point of a rating of a WB skin if you didn't at least run it through it's paces? Best thing for a new skinner is to know what's a little goofed up that can be easily fixed and by downloading it and letting them know, most will be appreciative of being able to fix something in their skin that they didn't realized could be done.
As for time taken to do a skin. I could produce a skin with a level of "graphical appeal" that would take me three or four weeks to do, while a treetog could do the same level of graphics, probably in a day. So you really can't judge a skin on time taken to do the work unless you know the author very well and know his/her capabilities.
That's just my two cents
WOM
Reply #39 Friday, March 26, 2004 7:24 PM
Reply #39 Friday, March 26, 2004 7:24 PM
macrobaye, most authors make icons to go with their entire suite, so just looking at a few icons thats in the preview would not be fair. Logons,walls and screenshots I would agree with.
Personally, if I wanted a wall that had all that MS crap on it, I would just leave what came with the machine. Also, if I wanted a wall with all that writing on it, I just read a book instead.
Personally, if I wanted a wall that had all that MS crap on it, I would just leave what came with the machine. Also, if I wanted a wall with all that writing on it, I just read a book instead.
macrobaye
Reply #40 Friday, March 26, 2004 7:32 PM
Reply #40 Friday, March 26, 2004 7:32 PM
I usually only (until now) rate walls, OD icons, bootskins, and some sysmetrix stuff... most of which can be rated and commented on without downloading.
HOWEVER, I do agree that before leaving comments, one should download a skin. Ratings, on the other hand, can always be chanmged if a grave mistake was made that had been discovered upon download.
Now, let's get back on topic and see about making this a sticky thread. What I said in the opening post is the real stuff to follow. So please, Admins, can we make this a sticky thread?
HOWEVER, I do agree that before leaving comments, one should download a skin. Ratings, on the other hand, can always be chanmged if a grave mistake was made that had been discovered upon download.
Now, let's get back on topic and see about making this a sticky thread. What I said in the opening post is the real stuff to follow. So please, Admins, can we make this a sticky thread?
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Reply #21 Friday, March 26, 2004 11:03 AM