'why was my wall.....' 'pro and cons'
Monday, February 23, 2004 by DesignCaddy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
i might be throwing myself before the firing line here, but i honestly don't mind when people post their requests for having a turned-down wall paper critiqued by the community. afterall, this is a forum for discussion. yes---you can say its a matter that must be taken up with an admin---but lets face it, the admins are busy; they don't send decline emails out because of the flak they generally get, and by comming to a hub of site activity you know you have a shot at the best of the best reviewing your work.
maybe i feel this way because every other day i spend 8 hours in a studio with my work on a wall, having stones thrown at me from 20 different people. but hearing opinions is what makes your work better; especially finding out what 20 different people like and dislike about it. when everybody flips out 'this is not the place for this question....' i think they're wrong, and it only makes the community here look elitist.
if people here have a problem with this statement, then i offer up my e-mail addie for those that drop by wanting an honest opinion of their work.
maybe i feel this way because every other day i spend 8 hours in a studio with my work on a wall, having stones thrown at me from 20 different people. but hearing opinions is what makes your work better; especially finding out what 20 different people like and dislike about it. when everybody flips out 'this is not the place for this question....' i think they're wrong, and it only makes the community here look elitist.
if people here have a problem with this statement, then i offer up my e-mail addie for those that drop by wanting an honest opinion of their work.
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DesignCaddy
Reply #2 Monday, February 23, 2004 11:59 AM
Reply #2 Monday, February 23, 2004 11:59 AM
how so, stumpy?
edit: and that's what i'm talking about. the whole 'here we go again' rather than taking 2 minutes to offer some solid advice.
[Message Edited]
edit: and that's what i'm talking about. the whole 'here we go again' rather than taking 2 minutes to offer some solid advice.
[Message Edited]
Stumpy
Reply #3 Monday, February 23, 2004 12:04 PM
Reply #3 Monday, February 23, 2004 12:04 PM
Grayhaze has already set up a post, why do we need another, apart from offering your email address that is?
)
)
KarmaGirl
Reply #4 Monday, February 23, 2004 1:00 PM
Reply #4 Monday, February 23, 2004 1:00 PM
There is also a "skinning Discussion" forum that would be a more correct place for discussions on a wall.
For some reason, I am thinking that the discussion *prior* to the moderation would be a better approach.
eieio
Reply #5 Monday, February 23, 2004 1:51 PM
KarmaGirl has a good point. It seems to be fairly common practice, among WindowBlind skinners, to have another skinner critique your work prior to upload. (at least for me and several other skinners I know).
I wonder how many, if any, Wall artists do the same? Seems it would be better to have that feedback while a work is in progress.
Reply #5 Monday, February 23, 2004 1:51 PM
| For some reason, I am thinking that the discussion *prior* to the moderation would be a better approach. |
KarmaGirl has a good point. It seems to be fairly common practice, among WindowBlind skinners, to have another skinner critique your work prior to upload. (at least for me and several other skinners I know).
I wonder how many, if any, Wall artists do the same? Seems it would be better to have that feedback while a work is in progress.
Shameless Designs
Reply #7 Monday, February 23, 2004 2:17 PM
Reply #7 Monday, February 23, 2004 2:17 PM
Stumpy... As the grayhaze post was made less than 24 hours previously, and was made sticky almost immediately (not sure when since I wasn't here when posted), I think I can understand how it may have been missed.
As a regular visitor here, I confess that I routinely skip right past the stickies because they often don't change or add anything new in a meaningful way - it's mostly either "Good post", "Thank You", or "Me, too," comments beyond the initial post. Which begs the question in my mind of the utility of stickies beyond a convenient place to link to in answering an oft repeated question. Unfortunately, I can't offer a good alternative suggestion beyond updating the FAQ page(s), which I know is easier said than done.
KarmaGirl... As for the skinning discussion board, the use of that board is very streaky. By that I mean, sometimes questions there will get an immediate response, but quite often, one can literally go for days without an answer. I used to visit that board everyday, but unless there is a specific post that interests me, I, like many others I suspect, only go back now once every few days because there is so little activity on that board. I truly wish this board was used more, but again, I'm not sure how to change this.
As for your suggestion on discussions prior to uploading/moderation, I think that it is potentially a good idea, if it could be shifted to another forum than the general board, and if there was some type of mechanism for making it work without a ton of spam and troll comments. pictoratus comment that it is common practice among skinners to check each others skins is true, I suspect, among established skinners who e-mail things back and forth. I haven't seen much evidence of it as a mentoring/development process for newbies, who are among the most common "Why was my wall...?" thread posters.
And in the end, if we can't figure out a better way to do it, we'd simply trade "Why was it rejected?" threads for "Please check my wall so I can upload." threads.
P.S. Not to mention the bandwidth increase for all those "in-progress" screenshots.
[Message Edited]
As a regular visitor here, I confess that I routinely skip right past the stickies because they often don't change or add anything new in a meaningful way - it's mostly either "Good post", "Thank You", or "Me, too," comments beyond the initial post. Which begs the question in my mind of the utility of stickies beyond a convenient place to link to in answering an oft repeated question. Unfortunately, I can't offer a good alternative suggestion beyond updating the FAQ page(s), which I know is easier said than done.
KarmaGirl... As for the skinning discussion board, the use of that board is very streaky. By that I mean, sometimes questions there will get an immediate response, but quite often, one can literally go for days without an answer. I used to visit that board everyday, but unless there is a specific post that interests me, I, like many others I suspect, only go back now once every few days because there is so little activity on that board. I truly wish this board was used more, but again, I'm not sure how to change this.
As for your suggestion on discussions prior to uploading/moderation, I think that it is potentially a good idea, if it could be shifted to another forum than the general board, and if there was some type of mechanism for making it work without a ton of spam and troll comments. pictoratus comment that it is common practice among skinners to check each others skins is true, I suspect, among established skinners who e-mail things back and forth. I haven't seen much evidence of it as a mentoring/development process for newbies, who are among the most common "Why was my wall...?" thread posters.
And in the end, if we can't figure out a better way to do it, we'd simply trade "Why was it rejected?" threads for "Please check my wall so I can upload." threads.
P.S. Not to mention the bandwidth increase for all those "in-progress" screenshots.
[Message Edited]
KarmaGirl
Reply #8 Monday, February 23, 2004 2:22 PM
Reply #8 Monday, February 23, 2004 2:22 PM
That's what the skinning discussion board was made for. However, if somebody doesn't want to comment, then they won't. The threads that get posted here about them (after the fact) are not productive at all. It is also common practice to make a post of "can I email anyone this ( skin/theme) to see what you think?" There is nothing to stop a Wallpaper artist from doing that.
Stumpy
Reply #9 Monday, February 23, 2004 2:28 PM
Reply #9 Monday, February 23, 2004 2:28 PM
Don't misunderstand my earlier post, I was not complaining about the subject, i agree that there should be some sort of discussion on the pro's and cons of various walls. 
I hope it works, and DesignCaddy remember to be prepared to recieve 100's (if not 1000's) of unwanted walls )
In the meantime,
I hope it works, and DesignCaddy remember to be prepared to recieve 100's (if not 1000's) of unwanted walls )
In the meantime,
Shameless Designs
Reply #10 Monday, February 23, 2004 2:39 PM
Reply #10 Monday, February 23, 2004 2:39 PM
KarmaGirl, I agree with you that it would be better to use that board for this purpose, and that threads posted here after moderation are largely unproductive. And you're right, there is nothing to prevent a wall artist from posting there to ask for feedback.
The purpose of my post was intended to point out that your idea is a good one, but in the 8 or 9 months that I've been coming here, the skinning board is getting used very rarely for that purpose, and generally only by established skinners.
Saying there is nothing to stop people from using it that way doesn't do anything to get people to actually do it. I'm asking now, if it wasn't clear before, does anyone have any ideas how to promote the skinning board for it's intended purpose, and hopefully, reduce this type of post on the general board?
For that matter, the General discussion board has also become the defacto Help board for many people as well. Again, I suspect that is because the General Discussion board is the default board when you click on 'Message Board', and people are often too lazy to switch to the appropriate board, or they are unfamiliar with the fact that this board exists, or they have been to that board and realized that the Help Board is not visited as often.
The purpose of my post was intended to point out that your idea is a good one, but in the 8 or 9 months that I've been coming here, the skinning board is getting used very rarely for that purpose, and generally only by established skinners.
Saying there is nothing to stop people from using it that way doesn't do anything to get people to actually do it. I'm asking now, if it wasn't clear before, does anyone have any ideas how to promote the skinning board for it's intended purpose, and hopefully, reduce this type of post on the general board?
For that matter, the General discussion board has also become the defacto Help board for many people as well. Again, I suspect that is because the General Discussion board is the default board when you click on 'Message Board', and people are often too lazy to switch to the appropriate board, or they are unfamiliar with the fact that this board exists, or they have been to that board and realized that the Help Board is not visited as often.
SelfExiled
Reply #11 Monday, February 23, 2004 3:00 PM
Reply #11 Monday, February 23, 2004 3:00 PM
Look DesignCaddy, You don't seem to get it. We are not the admins/moderators. We don't know why someones wall didn't get accepted. If someone wants to ask that question, then they need to go to the source. This is why we reccommend that they not post that question here. We are just the community of skinners and members.
Most of the time, I don't comment. It is a waste of time. Just as this thread is for me. But, I try to be nice. You have been here a little while, and maybe you think we are trying to be elitest. But, this is not true. I have seen some god awful walls where a person says, "Why didn't my wall get accepted". I wanted to say, "because, it sucks. A three year old could do that. I have barf that looks better than that." This would be how I honestly feel.
But, I try to be nice, so I say nothing. I wonder if it helps. Then, you have the poor admins/moderators. I have seen some of the slander that these "Five Minute Wannabe Piccaso's" have said to the admins, on this site. It is sad that any human being should have to tolerate such verbal abuse.
So, I guess your idea is, if you try to be nice and say nothing, then you are acting like elitests. If you tell how you really feel and be honest, then you are an -hole. Those are my only choices, and I'll choose the former. I won't lie and try to boost someones ego. I tell the truth or I say nothing. I also have a very short life span, and I can't afford to waste time with whinners and complainers. They come here on an almost daily basis. Sometimes, two to three in one day. I like to help people but, I can't help someone create artwork. It takes time and patience, and many rejections. This is life, full of rejections and many people don't seem to be able to handle it. Therefore, for all the above reasons, it is ridiculous for wallpaper rejectees to post to the board.(My Opinion)
Oh yeah, if you are honest, you also get accused of flaming someone. I give up. >
Most of the time, I don't comment. It is a waste of time. Just as this thread is for me. But, I try to be nice. You have been here a little while, and maybe you think we are trying to be elitest. But, this is not true. I have seen some god awful walls where a person says, "Why didn't my wall get accepted". I wanted to say, "because, it sucks. A three year old could do that. I have barf that looks better than that." This would be how I honestly feel.
But, I try to be nice, so I say nothing. I wonder if it helps. Then, you have the poor admins/moderators. I have seen some of the slander that these "Five Minute Wannabe Piccaso's" have said to the admins, on this site. It is sad that any human being should have to tolerate such verbal abuse.
So, I guess your idea is, if you try to be nice and say nothing, then you are acting like elitests. If you tell how you really feel and be honest, then you are an -hole. Those are my only choices, and I'll choose the former. I won't lie and try to boost someones ego. I tell the truth or I say nothing. I also have a very short life span, and I can't afford to waste time with whinners and complainers. They come here on an almost daily basis. Sometimes, two to three in one day. I like to help people but, I can't help someone create artwork. It takes time and patience, and many rejections. This is life, full of rejections and many people don't seem to be able to handle it. Therefore, for all the above reasons, it is ridiculous for wallpaper rejectees to post to the board.(My Opinion)
Oh yeah, if you are honest, you also get accused of flaming someone. I give up. >
SelfExiled
Reply #12 Monday, February 23, 2004 3:08 PM
Reply #12 Monday, February 23, 2004 3:08 PM
I have a good idea. Lets make a sticky for DesignCaddy. The topic being, "Why my wall didn't get accepted<-go here". Inside the thread, list his email address. And, please don't ever ask for help with it. I want no part of that thread. 
sig101
Reply #13 Monday, February 23, 2004 3:14 PM
Reply #13 Monday, February 23, 2004 3:14 PM
I recall someone saying that the messageboard software is going to be modified so that mods/admins can move threads to the appropriate board. But again, these are boards and participation is voluntary just as with other boards/forums.
Nevertheless, the fact remains if someone really wants to know why a wall was rejected they should contact a mod since the mods are best able to answer that question authoritatively. And if they want feedback to improve their work the skinning board is the appropriate place for that. Most of those who post those kinds of threads don't participate in the boards anyway. Most only come to the board to vent and complain.
If they just want to complain about moderation and look for others to share their "outrage" at the rejection of their work as most of those threads do, a) it won't do any good since their wall is not going to be accepted regardless and
they'll likely get responses they don't like as a result of their thread. Few are looking for real criticism and suggestions most often they are just looking for validation that their work was "unjustly" declined. Which is why Grayhaze's thread is a good advisory and hopefully in future posters complaining or asking about wall moderation will be directed to it by other posters.
Nevertheless, the fact remains if someone really wants to know why a wall was rejected they should contact a mod since the mods are best able to answer that question authoritatively. And if they want feedback to improve their work the skinning board is the appropriate place for that. Most of those who post those kinds of threads don't participate in the boards anyway. Most only come to the board to vent and complain.
If they just want to complain about moderation and look for others to share their "outrage" at the rejection of their work as most of those threads do, a) it won't do any good since their wall is not going to be accepted regardless and
they'll likely get responses they don't like as a result of their thread. Few are looking for real criticism and suggestions most often they are just looking for validation that their work was "unjustly" declined. Which is why Grayhaze's thread is a good advisory and hopefully in future posters complaining or asking about wall moderation will be directed to it by other posters.
MadPyro
Reply #14 Monday, February 23, 2004 3:19 PM
COOOOOOOOL finally i wont see "why cant i downl..." or "why didnt my wallpaper pass modera...."
Reply #14 Monday, February 23, 2004 3:19 PM
| software is going to be modified so that mods/admins can move threads to the appropriate board |
COOOOOOOOL finally i wont see "why cant i downl..." or "why didnt my wallpaper pass modera...."
Shameless Designs
Reply #15 Monday, February 23, 2004 3:32 PM
Seems you decided to choose the latter.
Reply #15 Monday, February 23, 2004 3:32 PM
| #11 by Skinner ChasUGC So, I guess your idea is, if you try to be nice and say nothing, then you are acting like elitests. If you tell how you really feel and be honest, then you are an -hole. Those are my only choices, and I'll choose the former |
| #12 by Skinner ChasUGC - 2/23/2004 3:08:27 PM I have a good idea. Lets make a sticky for DesignCaddy. The topic being, "Why my wall didn't get accepted<-go here". Inside the thread, list his email address. And, please don't ever ask for help with it. I want no part of that thread. |
Seems you decided to choose the latter.
sig101
Reply #17 Monday, February 23, 2004 4:10 PM. What did you expect, everyone to agree with you? You offered up your email in this thread so why take exception to Chas for (somewhat satirically) following that up as a possible "solution?"
Reply #17 Monday, February 23, 2004 4:10 PM
. What did you expect, everyone to agree with you? You offered up your email in this thread so why take exception to Chas for (somewhat satirically) following that up as a possible "solution?"
Shameless Designs
Reply #18 Monday, February 23, 2004 4:24 PM
Reply #18 Monday, February 23, 2004 4:24 PM
sig101, I think you have me confused with DesignCaddy, who is the one who actually made the original post and offered his e-mail. )
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
Shameless Designs
Reply #19 Monday, February 23, 2004 4:26 PM
Reply #19 Monday, February 23, 2004 4:26 PM
hmmmmmm... why is this emoticon not working? )
The emoticon for the wink seems to be deleting the semicolon when posting, at least for me.
[Message Edited]
The emoticon for the wink seems to be deleting the semicolon when posting, at least for me.
[Message Edited]
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Reply #1 Monday, February 23, 2004 11:49 AM