I'm looking at your icon in question "photoshop cs" and I am unimpressed. I rated it a 6, and as my general ratings go I look at things like this.

1. Did the person make it? If so I will almost always give it at least a 6 just out of the reason that it is original work. If the person did not make it and it is ripped work/copy pasted, I start at a 1. After I have the 1 in my mindset I look at details, did the person at least do a good job copy and pasting the thing? Are there jagged lines? Problems with anti aliasing? Though my initial thought is at a 1, the more work put into manipulating an image, the higher I will take it, I've actually given completely ripped work 6's before just because they did it so well.

2. Does the icon work well, (if for dock, or whatever the work is intended for). Icons specifically have many necessities to work. Icons must be easy to identify the size of a dime, or cd. Which means simplicity is often a must. They need to be pleasant on the eyes. And most of all they need to clearly identify what they are for. Which is why just copy pasting stuff like a mobile phone doesn't do diddly. No one knows what kind of phone it is when it's the size of a stamp, nor do most of them care, they want to know it is a phone, not that its a "220zx 640 special edition gaming capable wireless es2000 picture phone" from verizon. Thinking in a way that pictographs work is your best bet to understand that.

3. The final thing I look at is, is the icon of any use? Photoshop icon, hell yeah. The flag of germany...probably not. Most anything can be used, and often people have excuses for it, i.e. a picture of a shoe to launch "run". but just a picture of a shoe doesn't signify run.

The first 2 are very important, the 3rd is more open to interpretive opinions, which is why I never completely base a rate on it.

Though I'm sure you probably care less about all that, you're still worried about photoshop. My biggest influence on the rating of your photoshop is that doesn't have the polished beauty that your kazaa and quicktime icons do. (and i'm not talking "aqua effect")

Other than that, I still believe people should be able to honestly rate however they find necessary, in the land where middle is a starting point, a 2 is no more out of question than an 8. People only bicker about low ratings though, instead of thinking, "oh well maybe there is a reason for it". people always assume they are being screwed over and that their work is perfect with no flaws or room for improvement.

Keep in mind, everything starts out as a 1, and many deserve it in the end. It's not easy to get a good rating, but those that deserve it always seem to. On a side note I've given out plenty of ones and 2's and so forth, I've only given out two "10's" ever. 1 signifies total crap, which I've seen and feel justified giving when I do. 10's declare perfection, and even though I've given 2 10's, I still don't feel they were perfect. If people really consider that a 10 means perfect in every way shape and form, less people would be thinking things deserved them.

I think it was me, who rated your icon with 2, please don't say that of the rating system.
If the users don't like my icon what else can I do? Cry like a baby? Nope, instead I would recreate the icon from scratch and do a better job. I know is hard because I did that to, right now I’m learning how to do skins foe WindowBlinds, and I want to release a skin soon, but if people don't like that? Should I go to the forum and talk about this rating system? Or talk about the users that rated it bad? No! I would take critics and improve my work. Accept your limitations and make them your stronger points.

Let me ask you something, is more important to you: the rating or that you have acquired some graphics design skills? Are you thinking more in public recognition or in making people happy by creating images that they will use a lot of times?

Oh well...everybody rates his/her own way. I am glad there is going to be some change...when a work starts as a 6 and gets horizons 1 it is listed as a 3, and after that nobody cares to rate (because only "crap" gets such a rate), or, a whole lot of people do not even see the work cos of the filters. I am curious how the system will be upgraded, and hope it will be an improvement.
My suggestion would be to give constructive criticism if a work is rated low, but almost nobody cares to do that. Hence a low rating on a work and the creator pulls out his/her hairs why and a thread like this pops up.

Thanks for all of your input. Props to you to horiz0n for your rating process.
Travis the Crazy Gorilla, as far as "grow up" that has nothing to do with the issue. I can handle just about anything thrown at me. I am open to input from others and it is ALWAYS encouraged. Thats how we all grow and reach our peak.

I don't really understand the rating process, but what really twangs me in this whole matter is I see someone submit for example: the letter "O" with a bevel and it's rated a 6 and one sits back and thinks, WOW, that didn't take much thought nor time. I'm sure all of you would question that.

Put that in perspective, sit in my chair, then you'll understand what I'm saying.

BTW Travis... the joke was a trip!

Whoops, sorry for the double post.
My fault!

Lecrayon believe me, if someone takes ripped work and my 1 ONLY takes it to a 3, I'm not satisfied. This isn't deviant art or some site where EVERYBODY has any and all means to just post crap here. This is a "skinning" community, and all too often people come here and find some icons, or groovy walls. And instead of appreciating it, random joes go, hey I should do stuff to. Then the person who has no graphic experience, or qualities soon realizes they have no idea what they are doing or talking about. It's easy to get inspired by seeing great work, it doesn't mean you should pretend you can. How many people see a good movie and makes them wish they were an actor? Hear's their favorite band play and wishes it was them? Think american idol. The guy judging is honest, which is something EVERYONE needs to hear. He's not afraid to tell someone they are useless, or that they are exactly what they're looking for. Tons of people come here and see what people can do and are inspired to try it themselves, and god love them do. Many of them just see good work, and out of jealousy, envy or otherwise go, "I wanna be important too." Nothing wrong with that either, competition is an excellent means of inspiration. However the people that think that way and the only thing they can do is take someone elses work and expect people to say good job, we have no use for them...I have no use for them.

People think that this is any different than anything else are seriously confused. Like it's ok to copy paste work, slap your name on it and watch the downloads, but it's no different than pulling a milli vanilli. People get all huffy when work is ripped by people known to them, i.e. if I uploaded jairo's work as my own. But people pay no mind to ripped work if it's official or not well known to them. whether it be mormegils work, or a screen shot of the logo of a game, it's ripped work just the same, you're stealing AN artists work just the same, and should be treated JUST THE SAME.

Any ripped images in all forms should be purged from this site, this is and hopefully always will be a skinning site were people upload things they make for designated purposes. Just because wincustomize supplies icons for object dock, and wincustomize doesn't have an icon for space invaders, doesn't give anyone the right to copy paste and put the space invaders logo up as an icon. I'd rather take every single request on myself than see halfwit people copy paste and try to take credit for it. Perhaps you all don't understand how much of an outrage it is for people to rip work until your own work is the one being ripped. If it was up to me any one ripping work, whether local, or official, would be given one warning and the item deleted. If they did it again exile them. Does that sound harsh? How many stores give you a warning for stealing before they ban/arrest you? It seems more than fair to me. Icons, walls, widgets and wingdings apart, stealing something and putting a glass effect on it is still ripping work, and should be treated as so.

Its taboo here, to mention stealing programs on kazaa and such. But stolen images are here all over the place, I don't see the logic in it. I'm tired of seeing people wanting nothing more than a temporary spotlight shining on them, and submit stuff they didn't do, or the even more ridiculous crap of stealing work and putting the copyright symbol and their name on it, just so people can give compliments to them they don't deserve.

I'd dare say most people here that actually does make their own work, aren't in their minds thinking "I wanna make cool stuff for wincustomize till I die and thats it." Logically people that do this stuff would like to do it for a living. Many would probably like to keep putting stuff here even if they had a job doing it. But no job is ever going to pay someone to steal images off the web, and take screen shots. This site should be looked at as a job of sorts. Perhaps the best job you'll ever have, no deadlines, sleep in as long as you want, make your own schedule. You do however still have responsibilities. You can't get away with this stuff in a job, you can't get away with it in a school, why should a "skinning" site be any different. The honest people here that do honest work should for the most part take their ratings to heart, but not as a personal attack. If it has a high rating, good keep up the work, if it's low try harder, keep working at it.

You need thick skin in this field, whether you do it professionally or not. Be prepared to hear what people really think of your work, not just what you wanna hear. If people take it easy on you they are doing you an injustice.

The ripped work however will never set easy on me, perhaps you have to be an artist to truly appreciate art. These clowns that submit work that doesn't belong to them may always be here, get downloads, have good ratings and plenty of warm friendly comments. But anyone that expects me to pat them on the back for it is seriously mistaken.

The system is pathetic here and everyone knows it. Get rid of the "Ratings" and let the members decide on their own whether they like it or not. Until I see a change, I refuse to submit any of my hard work and time to this caos.

I really take no notice of ratings.
If you need the ego boost then I suggest you refrain from submitting your 'hard work' to this 'chaos'.
But ... if you wish to improve and learn then keep on keeping on .....

..and as far as you go poulan, I look through your library, I can see you are able to hold your own now and are getting better day by day. I hope you don't let a rating convince you not to do any more work here. Whether it has room for improvement or not, it IS still appreciated. If you have even a single download that means you have made someone happy, even if they don't leave the comment saying so.

I personally don't see why they are changing the rating system, the only thing I think needs changed about it is when you update a skin, you see a box to check that says,

reset update date
and
in submitting these files for upload I give permission for stardock to use in future skins

there needs to be one more box when you update, real simple, real efficient, the choice to reset your ratings, so that your new update can have a chance to have a fresh start or not.

Thanks for the kind words horiz0n. You actually have inspired me to continue.
Comments are always more appreciated than a number. Too bad folks don't comment often enough on the work. Getting their input does actually go far to help us achieve our pinnacle.

Glad to have you back

I have a rant here but, I don't want to be called a baby, not at my age. Especially, by a group of guys. (Chas asks Leo The Lion for a little courage)

Just because wincustomize supplies icons for object dock, and wincustomize doesn't have an icon for space invaders, doesn't give anyone the right to copy paste and put the space invaders logo up as an icon. I'd rather take every single request on myself than see halfwit people copy paste and try to take credit for it.

Well some of us put in the desciption that we didn't make the icon and take no credit for it...

Like me.

you are a prime example of a fading exception kona, it is good that you make note that you are not the author of the work, (though permission text should technically be included to do it), but you've said you are going to finally do your own work now...correct?

yes i am working on ALOT of projects from scratch.

But lately I have been having fun with SKS and converting msstyles. I just uploaded a WB skin called "Red Dragon" with the original autors permission (included in zip) of course.
[Message Edited]

hey, one suggestion, what about starting 2 ratings - one from the mods who rate it b4 adding to the library, & the other from the users who visited your works? i mean, one is staff rating & other is public rating. how's the idea?

I'd rather take every single request on myself than see halfwit people copy paste and try to take credit for it.

does this include those who port?
of all the screen shots i have posted and the one port i have done so far, i too have always given the graphics author the proper recognition.

Tis the reason it's called a permission, permission is like having a green card. Porting things is different than ripping. The author of original work can do whatever he/she wants to with it, if that happens to be leaving it in the capable hands of someone to port it so others can enjoy it to, then it's all good if it's in the graces of the original author. And a screen shot is only displaying what you are doing with work, not taking rights of it, so that is also more than acceptable.

btw don't copy paste my text without permission

btw don't copy paste my text without permission

Yes, boss....