Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.

But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers). 

My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/

That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.

I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom.  Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.

Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen.  This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only.  The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).

There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.

That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.

I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users.  We webmasters are doing everythign we can.  The skinners have done their part.  The users have to do their part as a collective.  Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too.  As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes.  The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.

Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow.  We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced.  The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales.  While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.

Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do.  But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff. 

The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.

First Previous Page 8 of 27 Next Last
ama02
Reply #141 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:58 PM
I've just emailed KarmaGirl with a similar proposal, to add a gift subscription to her contest winnings.
JD89187
Reply #142 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:01 PM
hmmmm, sad...I would buy a subscription, but my mom wont put her credit card on the net
Apocalypse_67
Reply #143 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:01 PM
It seems that the point intended has branched out to a few irrelevant issues.
The way I have followed Brad's original post is.

1- The site is going thru a tough time because not enough monetary contribution is being made.

2- Those that have already made the contributions have done their share and are not required or obligated to make additional purchase of subscriptions (unless they choose to purchase extra subscriptions as gift for family members/friends)

3- Nobody is obligating anyone to make any purchase. If a person does not have the money to purchase a subscription, simply don’t purchase it. If a person has funds and is willing to help by purchasing a subscription, then by all means do it.

4- The post was intended to serve as a notification of how and where the site stands and to encourage those that visit and are non-subscribers to help out by purchasing a subscription IF and ONLY IF they have the funds to do it.

5- Giving the circumstances and in the worst case scenario, the site will have to seek ways to stay afloat, therefore the options of charging for some things that up to now have been free will seriously be taken under consideration.

I like the way the site is right now and I wouldn’t like to see it morph into the options given by Brad, so I've made my contribution.
For $20 I get more satisfaction from uploading and downloading the wonderful designs of my fellow artist than I get from a lot of things on which I expend far more than $20
So, if you have $20 to spare make the contribution, if you don’t have $20, then try to help out to keep everything as is.

Just my 2 cents.
MadIce
Reply #144 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:38 PM
Try a money order.
Koasati
Reply #145 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:41 PM

#129 by Kona0197 - 12/10/2003 7:14:20 PM
Point being, you start charging for things here and I PROMISE this site will fail. I myself will not pay for skins when I can find them elsewhere for free.
 

No, the site won't fail, and you don't pay for anything now................ 

Maybe that is why I do not download them here.

Now that's just silly, skins are presently free.......have you found some place where you can download skins for less? 





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kona0197
Reply #146 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:42 PM
Now that's just silly, skins are presently free.......have you found some place where you can download skins for less?


I use style XP hence I get my skins at Themexp
MadIce
Reply #147 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:42 PM
This is from the FAQ:

Q: I don’t have a credit card. How can I purchase Stardock software?

A: We also accept checks or money orders in US funds (no Eurocheques, please, as they are not certified funds). Please print and use the order form at https://www.stardock.com/order.txt (also found in the directories of Stardock’s shareware products) and mail with payment to:

Stardock Systems, Inc.
17292 Farmington Rd.
Livonia, MI 48152
USA

Visit http://cnnfn.cnn.com/markets/currencies/ for current information on exchange rates.
WOM
Reply #148 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:43 PM
WOM things Koasati is funny.



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I.R. Brainiac
Reply #149 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:52 PM
Maybe we should PAY Kona to use our WB skins...
Hus
Reply #150 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:57 PM
I am a subscriber of this site. I love this place...it gives me a reason to go online every day. After using ODNT, I will NEVER use a PC without it...they are great produts, this site supports those products, and I use them every hour of every day...so I became a subscriber. I agree with what Frogboy said, leeches who just download without giving back is just not fair. If you owned a candy store and let all the kids steal from you...soon enough you're out of business. I don't however, like the idea of selling skins on an individual basis. This will drive me away from the site because I will be unlikely to purchase them. If all the good authors are doing this (which why wouldn't they?)...what purpose will I have left? I will be stuck with great software and mediocre skins. It is a very annoying having to charge $0.99 or $1.99 to my credit card everytime I want a skin. I don't mind buying a suite of skins for $5.00 or whatever. I bought PixOS, Orion Icons and a few other things too. These things were released as "Premium" skins, which they are. If we went from one or two premium skins a month to 100 or 200, that is a very big difference. I have a small suggestion to better suit people like me...instead of chaging for skins...simply put a SEVERE cap on ALL non-subscribers, this way skins are still free...but only subscribers will download them. Setup monthly, maybe a 6-month subscription, even weekly subscriptions...and that is the only way to download stuff. It's a beautiful thing...because once in a blue...you let a good skin out the bag as a freebie to entice all non-subscribers. I would much rather have that sort of scenario than having to buy skins for $1.00.

Just my two cents...
EventHorizon
Reply #151 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:59 PM
"produts"
EventHorizon
Reply #152 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:01 PM
simply put a SEVERE cap on ALL non-subscribers,


Yes, that would help quite a bit...

Maybe something like 10-15Mb... What say you?
Z06Leonhart
Reply #153 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:05 PM
I love this place, I will try my best to help. I was just having some questions.
Hus
Reply #154 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:09 PM
Yep EH, exactly...a lot of sites have that as a business model. Look at http://www.fileplanet.com
XX
Reply #155 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:10 PM
simply put a SEVERE cap on ALL non-subscribers, this way skins are still free...but only subscribers will download them. Setup monthly, maybe a 6-month subscription, even weekly subscriptions...and that is the only way to download stuff.


Hmm it would mean people would simply buy one week and download massive amount, making things worse. People definely would leave here too. There's free skin sites out there too.

Hey whats current rate on bandwidth? one buck per MB or what? How about setting per mb charge to some small amount ( but probiably higher than current charges ) so basically, more you download, you pay more. First 50 mb is free as before.
EventHorizon
Reply #156 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:20 PM
Forget the weekly subscripts'... 6month maybe...

A one year one at $12 (or thereabout) might be good...

[Message Edited]
Artiepro
Reply #157 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:23 PM
User ID:221427 ,never posted before but been here for a while too. I plan on getting a subscription by next week. I have been using OD for about 2 years now, definitely one of the few things on the net worth paying for. I will say that a bigger premium skin suite for subscribers would help out. It's really the only reason I have never bought a subscription to Wincustomize but I will now because it's needed and it's worth it.
There should be a way to use Paypal to pay (or take donations) and a way to buy subscriptions for your friends. Which brings me to another point, tell your friends about Object Desktop and Wincustomize and that it is NOT "free". OD is a little hard to explain to the wife each year, but she agreed right away to the Wincustomize because now SHE is getting into it. $20 for 2 years! Heck we paid $20 for a Yankee Candle! I bet it won't last 2 years!
As for expecting 500 subscriptions right away it's not that easy. Most people expect someone else to do it, then will be the first to complain when it is changed due to the fact no one paid for it to support the freeloaders (for lack of a better word). I do believe you will get it done.
And yes this IS the wrong time of year for $. We have twin 7 month old girls and an 11 year old (whose birthday is this month, more $), my wife has been out of work since March so money is tight but I will get the $20 together. Just do it.
And for you youngsters whose parents are wary about credit cards on the net, it's at least as safe as using them in a store. Ask them if they remember when cards were imprinted on that carbon paper and they signed it and left a copy with the cashier. A COPY of the card....all the #'s , name and a SIGNATURE left in a register. Sound safe? How many times did they get their #'s stolen in that worst case scenario? Or ask them to get a card with a $500 limit or so.
Anyways I have rambled on long enough I just want to say thanks Stardock, Wincustomize, the skinners and everyone helping out. Merry Christmas everyone!
WOM
Reply #158 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:23 PM
To start with, all skinners won't be charging for everything they upload. It takes about 2 months to do a complete suite ( WB, icons, cursor, wall, logon, WMP, sysmetrix and objectdock). That is 10 hrs a day plus most of the weekend.Thats a lot of time to put into a hobby, plus the investment in software. So I think it would be nice if they could recoop some of the money they have laid out. Just my thoughts.



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Z06Leonhart
Reply #159 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:26 PM
you think that's a good idea? sure it is will save WC lotta money , how many 2 milion(rounded) users will stay? they will soon go look for another community and the bandwidth is not so high anymore.
Hus
Reply #160 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:30 PM
how many 2 milion(rounded) users will stay? they will soon go look for another community


And what will they find there? Nothing...this is THE place for skins...
[Message Edited]

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