Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.

But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers). 

My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/

That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.

I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom.  Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.

Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen.  This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only.  The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).

There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.

That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.

I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users.  We webmasters are doing everythign we can.  The skinners have done their part.  The users have to do their part as a collective.  Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too.  As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes.  The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.

Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow.  We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced.  The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales.  While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.

Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do.  But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff. 

The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.

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Z06Leonhart
Reply #121 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:32 PM
533,333.33 per year

half a million you are kidding right, no discount or better price
HG_Eliminator
Reply #122 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:34 PM
well there goes my 1956 ferarri
Elfkura
Reply #123 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:41 PM
50 megs worth of downloading. 2 million members. That's, at least, (seeing how so many people in the past and now are hitting the cap) is 100,000,000 megs worth of downloading per year... Divide the $500,000 per year by (remember, this is all an estimation) by 100,000,000 downloads... my answer is 0.005cents per download. My estimates may be overboard (I don't have Frogboy's accounting books on me).

-----

Okay, you're right. It's overboard. Sorry I said anything. Me and my big pathetic mouth.
[Message Edited]
IPlural
Reply #124 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:46 PM
Christ on a Crutch...

What in the hell do you think helps pay for this site with the cross draw on traffic for the Applications and the Skins and such to apply with those applications?

Stardock Products and their respective Web Sites in and of themselves do not take any funding AWAY from Wincustomize but in fact can be a DRAW to the site.

It isn't Rocket Science, as far as paying out money already for Products you get a freaking user level giving you full access to unlimited downloads. But the money paid for the products don't help pay for the WinCustomize site I bet your thinking. I am willing to bet they do, where in hell do you think the money comes from that offsets the lack of Subscriptions?

I find it rather repugnant to think that people can not actually sit down without anyone telling them anything and actually come up with how this site exists beyond the number of Subscribing Users compared to registered Users/Visitors excluding those Users who have cross referenced their production registration information which is a damn good indication that the sale of said product did in fact have some affect in keeping the site alive.

How in the hell did the connection to Stardock and Stardock products become a tangent issue I'll never know.

Who here honestly believes that there is anyway possible to justify the documented ROI in investing in this site as a positive cash flow for Stardock when it comes time to site down and cut expenditures with less than dying Return On Investment stickers slapped all over it?

WinCustomize sure does not exist to make anyone rich or even to turn a profit, that's for sure.

It exists for those who find the positive aspects of the community, having access to news, applications, skins, themes, icons, friends and to some extent a marketing tool for products which in turn do feed back into the site in some fashion so get over it already.

goodmorphing
Reply #125 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:56 PM
goodmorphing *waves* at Elf! Good to see you; have wondered how you were doing. Have a good holiday season!
Z06Leonhart
Reply #126 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 6:08 PM
Ok back to my question about themexp.org and Wincustomize.com. How can a community like themexp.org survive all these time without subscriber? I know the money to pay for TXP is from stylexp and also stardock is paying for WC. But does that mean stylexp gets more money from its product than SD?
Jafo
Reply #127 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 6:15 PM

It'll be all about band-width....just how big a pipe is needed to service the users.

The salient point is just how many megs of skins, etc are being downloaded from either site per second/minute/hour.....and that'll be a product of the average file size multiplied by downloader numbers.

I remember seeing at Customize.org their stats for the most ever members logged on....I think it was 121 [something like that]....currently as I type we have 888 and that's just a typical, not a max...

I.R. Brainiac
Reply #128 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:09 PM
Paxx is right about subscribers having access to more premiumskins,at least give them say 10 free ones.If you charged a dollar a skin,then they would automatically have saved half on a subscription.Wincustomize gets the new customer,helping to promote new sales of Stardock products,which in turn creates a demand for more skins from the artist.Sounds like win win win to me.You could still offer subscribers discounts on future selections as an added bonus.
kona0197
Reply #129 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:14 PM
Well here is the way I see it:

If you go to a department store like say Target and buy a DVD for 10 bucks, you are happy with the purchase and go home happy.

You then go back a few months later and Target has raised the price to 20 bucks when another stoer has 2 for 20 bucks.

Point being, you start charging for things here and I PROMISE this site will fail. I myself will not pay for skins when I can find them elsewhere for free. Maybe that is why I do not download them here.
Peff
Reply #130 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:16 PM
I, for one, have purchased everything available (all premium suites, OD, Wincustomize subscription, etc...) in order to pay my dues. I use only one stardock product (CursorXP), but I feel my purchases here have been worth every penny!!! I will continue to support this site by purchasing future products and subscriptions. Should it come to paying for individual skins, I have no problem with that either (although I won't actually use them). I won't miss the freeloaders one bit.

I brought up a question about a year ago as to how I would go about buying a subscription for someone else and did not receive any constructive responses...so I didn't pursue it further. I would have purchased at least 5 of them for friends during the last year. I'll ask again, how would I go about it?

I want to buy 5 of them right now (for a few of the younger, less financially able - in no way meant in a derogatory fashion - members of this fine community). I will not use PayPal, though...(they're theives...plain and simple - ask me about my nightmare with them sometime). I would purchase these tonight (via credit card) if I were able. Can someone help?

Stefan



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Matchbook
Reply #131 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:22 PM
Who really cares if the cheap ones leave WC.com? The serious skinners will stay, others will fall away - either way is fine, and either way the show must go on - so to speak...

It doesn't matter what's right, what's wrong, what's moral, what's necessary etc etc etc.. Just go with the flow people - purchase a subscription or two, or zip the 'ol yapper because you haven't "earned" the right to spout off. [ps, this isn't directed at any one person, just people in general]

take care!
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #132 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:23 PM
Kona...we're not talking about charging for everything,just a few premium works.If a skin is a premium skin,you wont find it anywhere else for free unless someone rips it.There will still be plenty of good free skins.As much as I enjot skinning ,it is a lot of work.You would know that if you had ever tried to make a WB or WMP skin.(not to mention Icon packages,whew!)Come back when you've done more than cut and paste a few company logos.

.What if the site fails because it didnt try to charge for a few things?Would you be happier then?
[Message Edited]
Stockholm Syndrome
Reply #133 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:37 PM
I brought up a question about a year ago as to how I would go about buying a subscription for someone else and did not receive any constructive responses...so I didn't pursue it further. I would have purchased at least 5 of them for friends during the last year. I'll ask again, how would I go about it?



hehe..I stopped by to ask this too, looks like ya beat me to it. I've asked before, also asking again. I can think of 2 or 3 gift subscriptions I'd get right off the bat myself. On a couple of other sites I'm on, you can buy gift memberships for other members, anon or not. It's pretty popular actually. Would be great if this could be done here.
Jafo
Reply #134 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:38 PM
Peff....email [email protected]  ...I'm sure she'd be able to help you with that.  [I'm not a Stardock employee so am unsure of the mechanics involved]...
MadIce
Reply #135 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:39 PM
Peff: Write to [email protected] for more info. Ask for Kim. She can help you with that. You'll need your CC info and the name, addresse and e-mail of the person you are giving it to.
MadIce
Reply #136 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:40 PM
Hehe. These days it seems to be Kim, Jafo. I have done it myself today
MadIce
Reply #137 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:40 PM
I was just one second too late
Jafo
Reply #138 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:44 PM
No prizes for second, Matthijs....but you're probably right....I was just suggesting a contact....
Peff
Reply #139 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:45 PM
Thanks guys...will do....Actually just saw Karmagirls contest thread...might be more fair for me to add to the contest prizes...in any case...It will bump the drive stats up!!



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MadIce
Reply #140 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:50 PM
In that case inform KarmaGirl first. Use the e-mail Jafo gave. Afteral she's the one organizing it.

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