Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?
Tuesday, December 9, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.
But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers).
My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/
That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.
I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom. Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.
Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen. This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only. The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).
There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.
That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.
I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users. We webmasters are doing everythign we can. The skinners have done their part. The users have to do their part as a collective. Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too. As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes. The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.
Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow. We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced. The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales. While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.
Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do. But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff.
The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.
Reply #102 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:48 PM
[Message Edited]
Reply #103 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:50 PM
Wincustomise will have to find another subscriber to take my place.
I sincerely hope it does not come to this.
Reply #104 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:53 PM
dang, i was gonna pitch in an idea but i forgot......
i will put it up if i remember laterReply #105 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:57 PM
| If I as a subscriber(OD, Wincustomise, Premium Skins Ect) have to fork out ANY more money I'm Out of here. I have been here long enough to know THAT will not upset anybody. And don't tell me everything is the price of only a cup of coffee - to me it isn't. The additional cost of having to pay for skins (whatever the price) will make this site cost prohibitive for me.Wincustomise will have to find another subscriber to take my place.I sincerely hope it does not come to this. |
and so it begins...
if they start chargeing for everything, they will lose customers.

Reply #106 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:59 PM
| #99 by Kona0197 - 12/10/2003 4:46:18 PM my user ID: 590340 Your user ID: 737304 I have been here awhile. |
Try 142. Been here a while too. A bit longer actually. 
But dang! 141 people beat me to it though, even though I signed up the very first day it was launched.
Reply #107 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:03 PM
| my user ID: 590340 Your user ID: 737304 |
Mines 156. I guess I was little slow at first day too.

Anyway I hope solution will work out, and I think selling skins won't kill this site, as long as there's reasonable freebies too. I, for one, would offer freebie version of a skin with bit more features I'm selling.
I crtainly could use money.
Wincustomize needs bit more money to keep up too.
[Message Edited]
Reply #108 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:04 PM

Reply #109 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:05 PM
I'm not really in favor of the premium skins idea either. I fear a lot of skinners, and very probably the best ones here, will go for it. And in the end people like Ande, who bought a WC subcrition and bought an Obejct Desktop membership, will be stuck with the crap that's left.
I'm not against the idea that non-subscribers would have to pay for those skins though, but users who showed their support to WC by subscribing should get all these "premium" skins for free. Otherwise it's just not fair, ad people end up spending money for left-overs.
Just about everything else in Frogboy's post is fine though.
Reply #111 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:08 PM
Skinbase [for comparison] comes in at 47,000.
[That means there are 47000 sites with higher traffic]...
BTW....day zero got me '23'...
Reply #112 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:08 PM
its been fun people, see ya in january. i will try to subscribe tomorrow, if i get the card.
happy holidays.Reply #113 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:12 PM

Reply #114 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:13 PM
Reply #115 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:14 PM
Reply #116 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:15 PM
Reply #117 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:18 PM
I didn't realize WC was in such a dilemma until today. Most of you have contributed a significant amount (as shown by status and various other ways). I know Frogboy wants to prevent the problem of a small number of users paying for everyone else...
For those of you who may not quite understand just how expensive WC is, here's something I learned as a moderator on a different community...
Endeffect.com had a community message board on ezboard.com. We had a little under 3000 members. Every six months, we were required to pay at least 300.00 for the gold status (no ads, no spam, and main server privileges, sounds like WC? I thought so). Sometimes, with more traffic, that place costs us closer to 400.00 every six months. That's 800.00 a year for a community of 3000 members.
WinCustomize is a community with over 2 million members, receiving over 1000 hits every single day. Can you possibly imaging how many 20.00 subscriptions are needed to cover that cost? If we did it by Endeffect's costs: 3000:400, then WC would have 2,000,000: ?. The cost then would be something like 533,333.33 per year.
20.00 subscriptions (remeber, they're for two years so it's 10.00 a year). This community, per year, needs to acquire at least 50,000 subscriptions from its users. That's just the bandwidth costs. I didn't add in the hardware and the maintenance costs. This problem is a headache for Frogboy and all the admins of this place.
All of this is also preaching to the wrong people. People who do use the messageboards are usually contributors. The most frustrating thing for any admin, mark my words, is to get this message to the ones who only abuse the bandwidth (downloading and demanding more).
I might suggest that the admins put up a contribution counter. I can't promise you that I will contribute often. However, for those of us who're looking to give a bit more than just 20.00 every two years, perhaps this is a chance to.
Give some of us the chance to contribute in fragments of 5.00 or 10.00 or however much we felt we can spare. Perhaps not everyone can afford 20.00 subscriptions off the bat, but with a larger berth of contribution flexibility, all of us can support Frogboy and the WC community. Even a thousand 1 dollar contributions is worth something.
Now that I've said all that, I'm going to disappear again. Best of luck to all of you.
Reply #118 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:18 PM
USER ID=0
it takes forever to load cuz its an 8.1 meg page. i never got it to load all the way.
Reply #119 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:22 PM

Reply #120 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:30 PM
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Reply #101 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:47 PM