Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?
Tuesday, December 9, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.
But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers).
My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/
That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.
I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom. Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.
Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen. This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only. The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).
There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.
That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.
I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users. We webmasters are doing everythign we can. The skinners have done their part. The users have to do their part as a collective. Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too. As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes. The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.
Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow. We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced. The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales. While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.
Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do. But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff.
The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.
Reply #242 Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:31 PM
I visit Wincustomize about three or four times a year, and the Winamp skin forums about twice a year. Should people like me lose the ability to find skins (behind a commercial cost barrier) the few times we want them?
I'm all for, and extremely supportive of, community but the truth is that you guys have created a centralized repository to house your community. That costs money and it's not really my problem where and how you come up with it.
I have two proposed solutions:
1. Put a cap on visits (and/or downloads) per year for those who haven't subscribed. If I used Wincustomize more often, I'd be happy to pay. But if I only visit once in awhile I don't feel I should have to pay to keep the whole site running - most of which is stuff I'm not interested in.
2. I've brought this up before, and was pooh-pooh'd for it, but I really don't see why some kind of distributed community network couldn't be set up - especially with all the work being done with regards to web services. Each skinner could house their skins on their own site, while Wincustomize could be simply a springboard for helping people find those skins. You could even distribute the springboard, with different community servers/webmasters handling the load for different categories, or different times of the day, or...
Reply #243 Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:37 PM
| They can pay their internet bill but cannot pay for a subscription? |
The world's not quite that simplistic.
1. If we're talking about younger people (as the post you quoted is), they're not paying their Internet bill - their parents are.
2. Libraries, school labs, work computers, etc. Not paying for their Internet bill.
3. I'm a computer professional. Internet access is high on the bill priority list. So, yes, I can pay that. I have to if I want to stay in the industry. A skinning site subscription isn't even in the same ballpark.
Reply #244 Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:37 PM
- For the most part I'm only interested in Icons and WindowBlinds and don't want to pay $3.50 (or even 50% of that) for a suite of which I'm not going to use half of.
- Personally, I'm not to keen on the idea of charging $1 to my credit card at a time, and having to pay for a currency conversion everytime as well (UK).
- FrogBoy has already mentioned that the credit companies charge an amount that makes small transactions less cost effective.
- A lot of people here are not keen on PayPal as an alternative.
However, as I said above, I appreciate that running such a site costs money and something might have to be done. To be honest I'm the sort of person that doesn't really want to pay for a subscription as it currently stands (I have bought OD though), mainly because I don't see any benefit for myself (sorry, just human nature). However, can I suggest a scheme that even I would be willing to pay for.
Allow the subscribers to purchase premium skins on the basis of credits. As a subscriber you can make a transaction to buy a number of credits (1 credit = $1 or 50c ?) which are associated with your WC account. The amount of credits you buy would be entirely down to you. I would guess most people would by in quantities of $5 or $10, meaning that Stardock get penalised less from the credit card companies (first plus point). Each skin, or even each aspect of a skin is then costed in terms of credits. For instance an Icon set costs 1 credit while a windowblinds skin costs 2 credits. Subscribers can then buy whatever parts of a premium skin they want, using their bank of credits. This way I get charged for less currency conversions, and I get to pick the part of the skins I actually want. Another bonus of this, is that people will stop relating the credits to money (after they've bought them), and will be more willing to make purchases. Obviously, once the credits have been used up more need to be purchased, but I bet people would continue to use up credits quickly once each initial purchase has been made.
Non-subscribers could still pay $3.50 for all I care. The benefit of subscribing would then be the ability to manage what you buy more efficently.
Just my 2 pence worth (which after conversion charges would be about $3.00
)Jason

Reply #245 Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:42 PM
A very good one...
Distributed Networking will not work for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is it would cause any number of servers from the distributed community to be shut down for over extending bandwidth use...
Or just serve to put a number of people in the same position this site finds itself in...
Reply #247 Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:47 PM
| Non-subscribers could still pay $3.50 for all I care. The benefit of subscribing would then be the ability to manage what you buy more efficently.Just my 2 pence worth (which after conversion charges would be about $3.00 )Jason |
frankly Non-Subscribers should have the chance to check things out, hit their limit and decide upon subscribing or not. If not then be switched to a access which does in fact have the pay as you download schema applied.
I edited out the "Off the Top" part because it had to do with credit card service fees and not what some people will comapline are WinCustomize service fee's even though that is what would be keeping the site alive in part...
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Reply #248 Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:47 PM

Reply #249 Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:49 PM

Reply #250 Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:58 PM
Actually, another idea I've just had. May be it would be possible to limit what skins the general public can actually download. At the end of each week, or when the ratings for a skin can be used as a guage, any new skins are tagged as publicly downloadable or not. This tag is based on the rating of the skin and the percentage of skins submitted that week with that rating. So for instance 10% of skin rated 10 are made available, 15% rated 9, 20% rated 8 and so on. Non-subscribers would still be able to see ALL the skins (and know what they're missing out on) but only download a limited amount. Also, if they can't download the ones they want, it might be another encouragement to subscribe.

Reply #251 Thursday, December 11, 2003 2:07 PM
Why is it that I can log out completely and still download skins and themes? If registered users are capped, why can people who aren't even registered at this site download at all? This seems like a huge hole that could be plugged simply by requiring site registration before they download.
It seems like enforcing the 50 meg limit would begin with knowing who the downloaders are to begin with. With most people having dynamic IP addresses, downloads without registration would be practically anonymous, right? This is the Great Maw I was talking about in my earlier post.
Reply #252 Thursday, December 11, 2003 2:20 PM
Level 1: Visitor. These are users who haven't created accounts. They can download up to 5 megabytes of content before having to create an account. |
which answers why you can still download stuff. Did you try to download more the 5Mb. How the limit is applied is another question. An obvious way would be with cookies, but they're removable. And I don't think IP addresses are as dynamic as you might think, especially in the days of broadband. I guess a StarDock techie could give a more precise answer

Reply #253 Thursday, December 11, 2003 2:21 PM
Reply #254 Thursday, December 11, 2003 2:26 PM
wonder how many had no clue and are now going to see just how much they can suck down?
Reply #255 Thursday, December 11, 2003 2:30 PM
Reply #258 Thursday, December 11, 2003 2:35 PM
RogueJay: the vast majority of broadband has dynamic IPs as well, to make it difficult to DNS and run servers on home systems. In my area there are several broadband providers, and only my own provides a static IP. All the most popular ISPs here force a dynamic IP.
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Reply #259 Thursday, December 11, 2003 2:43 PM
Reply #260 Thursday, December 11, 2003 2:45 PM
Now this whole "the costs of this site are getting out of hand" thing is something that seems to pop up at a random site every other week. It's getting too expensive because too much traffic is generated.
I see two solutions:
1. gather more funds to foot the bill (which seems to be what everyone sees as the solution)
2. stop growing. Why not? What's the use of getting so big that it can't be supported. So WinCustomize gets more traffic than most other (if not all) skin sites. Why not cap the downloads, decimate the available content to only the best of the best, make things exclusive.
Why the urge to be so big and get bigger?
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Reply #241 Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:24 PM
AIX <----
At this point my wife just told me we are looking at a total cost of $90,000. Guess she decided to go with someone and we'll go over it when she get's home fomr the meeting in Tampa from the Data Center rep's.
anyway...
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