Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?
Tuesday, December 9, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.
But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers).
My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/
That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.
I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom. Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.
Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen. This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only. The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).
There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.
That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.
I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users. We webmasters are doing everythign we can. The skinners have done their part. The users have to do their part as a collective. Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too. As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes. The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.
Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow. We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced. The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales. While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.
Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do. But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff.
The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.
Reply #222 Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:29 AM
Reply #223 Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:32 AM
Anyway,
There was a discussion once about the wallpaper section wherein someone suggested that it be 'let go' because of the amount of site traffic. At that time the retort was that the wallpapers, and the rest of the non-stardock sections for that matter, were a drop in the bucket and that it really wouldn't help to get rid of them.
Has the overall popularity ratio of the sections changed? It's been mentioned that if Stardock has to swallow the loss for the new servers that there might not be as much obligation to host non-stardock apps? Forgive me if it seems off topic, but the topic is 'community', and if the small community apps aren't a significant amount of traffic, I'm not sure what benefit there would be to the community in removing them.
No offense intended.
**
P.S. The check is in the mail. Really, it is. It's Christmas, though, had it been a few months before or after I could have done something more substantial than a single membership. Would there be room for us to donate talent in the form of skins and themes? Perhaps the site requires something more robust than just exclusive themes for subscribers. Per-download skin and theme sales would be warez hell, but I'm not sure the system now will ever balance the Great Maw.
Reply #224 Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:36 AM
| I brought up a question about a year ago as to how I would go about buying a subscription for someone else and did not receive any constructive responses...so I didn't pursue it further. I would have purchased at least 5 of them for friends during the last year. I'll ask again, how would I go about it? |

funny you should mention that! To me, there are to many steps just to buy a skin for your friend.
I guess I could just get a CD and send it to them, but then there is the whole Wincusto account thing.

Reply #225 Thursday, December 11, 2003 2:26 AM

Reply #226 Thursday, December 11, 2003 5:35 AM
| I think the first step should be to simply increase the incentive to subscribe. I mean to be honest, the current incentives don't have a strong enough appeal for most people. |
Losing the site is a bloody good incentive!
Times change and if you stand still you go under.
Subscribers have access, freeloaders get a 10 skin d/l and that's all she wrote!
And the trial version of WB should be 'neutered' to only handle 10 skins at a time.
Nothing is free.

Reply #227 Thursday, December 11, 2003 6:57 AM

Reply #228 Thursday, December 11, 2003 6:59 AM
besides the usual rips (you know how much some software companies as Apple will love to see somebody selling their designs) there is also the issue of selling fonts with skins. most freeware fonts are for non-commercial purposes only and i have also seen commercial fonts distributed in quite a few skins.
fonts is a serious business, done by real professionals with lawyers (not self-proclaimed professionals, that never got a foot into the graphics business for good reason), so just take care.
as an example Centurion by Skinplant comes with Fanklin Gothic Medium. thanks for that. saved me $21.

http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/itc-franklin-gothic/
[Message Edited]
Reply #229 Thursday, December 11, 2003 7:04 AM
Been a OD subscriber for two years now i think...and will also renew as long as products advance as well as they have been over the last two years.
Bought my WC subcription the day the drive start..why cuase for the first time I realised they needed my help and I was more than happy to. I guess I am like many here...download loads...upload none...and rarely dip my toes into the messages boards for fear of looking stupid.
I would hate to see the site change but at the end of the day bills have to be paid. It is sorry to see that more average users like myself have not just stumped up the readies. I really thought 500 would be achieved in a few days.
There are a few things thay could help the drive...not to sure if possible but if they are would be a great help.
1) A non registered user should be presented with an ad page for the drive at the start and then directed onwards to the site. This would raise awareness out there.
2) The current skins provided to wc subscribers are pretty thin pickings...had it been pauls Christmas Theme ( full suite of icons and the work) that would have been a huge incentive for people to subscribe. Might push more like me to do it.
Just thoughts as they come to me...really hope the drive works.
Reply #230 Thursday, December 11, 2003 7:05 AM
[Message Edited]
Reply #231 Thursday, December 11, 2003 7:29 AM
I see nothing wrong with having a select set of WB's, Icon's, etc available for purchase, with a larger set still available for free. I would throw one more idea into the mix. Suppose some skinners were willling to let WC provide select skins as available to subscribers only? Not available for download. I'm thinking it could work something like this. Maybe every 3 months or so, a skin is selected to be a WC subscriber only skin to be provided to subscribers. Skinners would, in a sense, 'donate' the skin to WC for this purpose and would agree to not make it available anywhere else. It seems this would be a feather in the cap to be able to have provided/been chosen for a WC only exclusive. And subscribers would get an extra 4 skins a year not available to the general public.
Anyway, food for thought.

Reply #233 Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:59 AM
I am, however, in a professional job with a fair amount of "disposable income". I am personally willing to contribute a portion of my fortnightly wage, if it means this site will keep going. I realise that even that won't be doing much... but it will make me feel good, and would be my personal contribution to this great community. Hell, how many of us pay for a monthly subscription to various magazines etc? Or have the newspaper delivered daily? This is also disposable income. I would gladly cancel a few of my monthly subscriptions to magazines, and hand the money over here. I'm trying to think of other ways to raise funds at the moment too....
I have only been here for a short while, can't skin for the life of me, but I've certainly done my share of downloading (and posting.... yeah some of you know how overzealous I've been with that!) I am already a SDC subscriber, and will also follow suit with the drive for the new servers, but I certainly feel that there's a little more I can do.
Frogboy, what's the score on this? Will you set up a way for us to donate/contribute funds? Whatever method you choose to do this..... count me in.
Eric.

Reply #234 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:10 AM
"as an example Centurion by Skinplant comes with Fanklin Gothic Medium. thanks for that. saved me $21"
It came as default with XP, so I had no idea it was shareware when I used it.
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Reply #235 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:32 AM
Reply #236 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:57 AM
Reply #237 Thursday, December 11, 2003 12:18 PM
Reply #238 Thursday, December 11, 2003 12:30 PM
| If PayPal is not a complete option to use for donations...I am not sure if they get a pecentage or not...Give us the option to use credit/debit cards to donate. Just a thought |
For an account as large as this one would probably be, Paypal would take 2.2% + $0.30 USD to 2.9% + $0.30 USD for each donation. (Depends on the amount of the donation I believe.)
Reply #239 Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:09 PM
I still think that KarmaGirls (Angie's) contest would be the way to go about it because it would not be a direct donation to the site which could prompt some hectic accountant conversations to say the least. Also there would not be the percentage off the top taken from the donation by the service it is run through...
It will take a little time to figure out the site donation question and KarmaGirl is working on it I am sure and will let people know when things come together.

On another note....
I can tell you this much for those wondering just how expensve high end servers (not make your own out of the box which would never meet the same level of fault tolerence, ability to meet the present needs and future needs and have the room for expansion when the time comes about or in other words " ROI ") can be.
We are now gathering quotes for a IBM pSeriesRS6000 and the mean base for the quotes is $55,0000. This server runs AIX and hosts Medical Manager for a number of remote Client's on different networks in different states along the East Coast. But I am betting that it will not see anymore more traffic over a four year period (which is the length of the service contract: $269.00 a month) than the servers for this site. Even though it will be up and running 24/7/365.
Serious Enterprise Networking costs some serious money....
BTW: anyone know of a IBM Certified VAR we might want to consider getting a quote from?

[Message Edited]
Reply #240 Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:14 PM

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Reply #221 Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:28 AM
the question could also be that there will be no site with the amount of skins or quality anywhere.
SkinIt.net
SkinEdge
Customize.org
SkinBase
Deskmod
all had or have problems and or running on life support or not at all.
So finding these skins might not be so easy. the volume will have to be smaller because the other sites will not be able to handle the traffic.