Are Mac users better skinners?
Saturday, November 15, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Anyone who's been watching TechTV's The Screen Savers lately has seen Konfabulator. A MacOS program that is the equivalent of the DesktopX object feature. You can think of Konfabulator as being the closest thing to DesktopX on the Mac.
But whether it is Konfabulator or Kaleidoscope before it or even some of the other Mac skinning programs, as well as the icons, there has been an ongoing debate, over the years, over who is better at skinning. Mac users or PC users?
On the PC side, programs like WindowBlinds, DesktopX, ObjectBar, Sysmetrix, Hoverdesk, and many others have more sophisticated features that allow technically adapt PC users to create a lot of interesting things. On the Mac side, while a much smaller market contains a lot of graphics designers and artists.
Anyone that's been on one of the mailing lists for the Mac skinning programs knows that Mac users are pretty convinced that they're a lot better at skinning (and are convinced that PC users are a bunch of rippers -- a charge, that while over generalized, we all have seen how little respect some people have for the rights of skinners).
So now Konfabulator is coming out for Windows. My view is, if Konfabulator becomes more popular somehow than DesktopX then we're a bunch of losers who deserve to be on the ash heap of history. With a 2 year head start and a lot more features (and DesktopX is cheaper!) the only way I can see DesktopX losing is through either a) Stardock sucking at development or 
Stardock sucking at marketing or c) Our community unable to compete with the Mac community's skinning prowess.
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Reply #4 Saturday, November 15, 2003 1:33 AM
DesktopX is a wonderful app (I can only assume it still is. I like my old beta still!
) but Konfabulator has the nice feature of OSX's Unix core, allowing it to tie in with other apps (such as top).. but still, Konfabulator's always reminded me as more of a more-graphical Samurize than DesktopX anyway.As for the quality of the skins/widgets between Apple and PC? Hrm... I don't know. Really, I bet if you took the best of the best from the Apple side as well as the best of the best from the PC side, you'd find that if nothing else, the #s were about the same for both.
Reply #5 Saturday, November 15, 2003 1:39 AM
kthxbye: DesktopX can tie in with other apps too:
That's two DesktopX objects available for download that embed Flash inside. That gives DesktopX a pretty huge advantage.
But having use Konfabulator, its objects are, on average, slicker than DesktopX objects. DesktopX's weather is nice. But Konfabulator's has nicer images and smoothly slides in and out to an expanded mode. There's more polish in the skins I've seen for the Mac, on average.
There also seems to be more skinners per capita among the Mac users. I'm quite concerned about the ratio between skinners and users. In the old days, there were a lot of skinners when compared to the number of users.
But these days, a handful of skinners seem to be supplying the entire community on Windows.
Reply #6 Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:01 AM
[Message Edited]
Reply #7 Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:11 AM
If so I sure would like to see it because from what my son has on his laptop, my cousing has on her new dual G4 and her G4 laptop and two other friends G4's they (MAC skinners) are all rippers who make claims of fame from ropping that single half pipe and colored orbs for button with different textures and creative wall papers.
A nail is a nail is a nail is a nail and they all seem to reach into the same box when they grab one...
Reply #8 Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:38 AM
Only two guys i know of thats probably top class for the Mac, like Pixtudio/SkinPlant is for the PC would be Max Rudberg and William Bart.
Max Rudberg's
Aluminum Alloy
http://homepage.mac.com/max_08/
and Bill Bart http://www.bbxstudio.com
I couldn't say Mac users are rippers IPlural because if you look at it both sides, Mac and PC designers have their good and bad community its just knowing the right people
[Message Edited]
Reply #9 Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:48 AM
Reply #10 Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:54 AM
| Anyone that's been on one of the mailing lists for the Mac skinning programs knows that Mac users are pretty convinced that they're a lot better at skinning (and are convinced that PC users are a bunch of rippers -- a charge, that while over generalized, we all have seen how little respect some people have for the rights of skinners). |
It makes me mad too that many Mac users would convict all Windows skinners as being reppers? They must have looked at a site like themexp.org and drew a conclusion from that. At another site I was arguing with a bunch of Linux zealots that Windows has the best looking themes and that skinning on Windows via Object Desktop plus other Stardock products was light years ahead of Linux's native skinnability. It just makes me made that this one zealot accused me of being a lyer and made the accusation that Stardock products hack Windows.
Reply #11 Saturday, November 15, 2003 3:22 AM
Reply #12 Saturday, November 15, 2003 3:48 AM
Voodoo_Freak I like those and they really look sweet, but excluding a few astetic changes, they are a hald pipe, orbs and some textures...
I am not trying to take anything away form them in the least. Much better than I can do without a doubt. But, I feel the dynamic is totally different when looking to skin on a MAC and skinning on a PC. For someone to claim such a thing as 1. MAC skinners are more creative is a reach in my opinion and 2. to claim that all PC skinners are ripping (thieves another words) is down right ignorant...
Reply #13 Saturday, November 15, 2003 6:55 AM
I do believe the quality of Mac skins is highly superior to what we can do on the Windows side. That stems from, as Brad said, more graphics proffesionals using Macs.
Just take a look through the archive of themes and schemes at Kaleidoscope, and you'll see way more creativity and originality. The fact that probably about 60% of MSStyles are Mac ports, and about 30% of WB skins in the last year and a half have been WB ports of MSStyle ports of Mac themes shows people are preffering to use them than make something unique.
I certainly don't think it comes down to programs involved. Using Kaleidoscope of Konfabulator doesn't make you a better skinner. It's what you can do in a graphics prog that dteremines that. And that brings it back to the point of more pro's using the Mac.
If you want to see any really mind blowing work for Windows, you generally need to look in the Winamp scene. Outside that, Pixtudio and Skins factory are probably the only people producing truly outstanding stuff.
Reply #14 Saturday, November 15, 2003 8:26 AM
Since Apple seems to have such a stranglehold on the whole graphics design industry, the ratio of people that actually have the skills to create good stuff is much better on the Mac side of life than in PC land. PC's are more for the average Joe who likes to drink beer and watch sports.
But... that has nothing to do with the system and more with the old prejudice that if you wnat to be a graphics designer you should work on a Mac.
Reply #15 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:11 AM
I own a Mac, but use a PC to do all my design work, I guess that means I will never get anywere as a Designer..... Oh poor me, what will become of poor moremegil in the end. 
Reply #16 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:56 AM
Sides, your an Artie`st hell with Designer
Reply #17 Saturday, November 15, 2003 11:46 AM
Brazil, if you're having those kinds of problems with DesktopX objects you should be talking to support. You should also make sure you use objects that say they are designed for DesktopX.
Which object or objects have you had troubles with?
I tend to agree with Hippy though his 30% figure is way way overstated. There were about 600 new WB visual styles created last year. 30% would be 180. No where near that many Mac ports were there. More like 10 to 20 I would bet which would be only a couple percent.
I do agree that Kaleidoscope skins show more originality on average, particularly over msstyles. On the other hand, WB skinners tend to be more (overly?) concerned with popularity and those generic looking minimalistic skins are, for whatever reason, the most popular.
Reply #18 Saturday, November 15, 2003 11:57 AM
Even though they don't get the popularity/downloads, I like seeing the new WB skins that strike out from the current mold to do something original.
Reply #19 Saturday, November 15, 2003 12:03 PM
Heck doing a search is almost at the level of reading the doc's for some
Reply #20 Saturday, November 15, 2003 12:57 PM
If what I describe doesn’t apply to anyone else, consider it one Jackass’s opinion. I have been discouraged from skinning because of all this, and I need to get over it. I don’t think we have much appreciation for the skilled hobbyist in our community. The Mac community doesn’t seem to feel the same.
Contrary to the recollection of some, I never predicted commercialism to be the death of skinning. I thought it would be the death of the elite hobbyist. Was I all that wrong? Elite skinners aren't filling the sections with gems, they are only giving us a couple of skins a year, and for one or two apps. The ‘best-of-the-best’, for-hire skins are mind-bogglingly great, but most are heavily-branded by those outside of the community, FOR those outside the community, most often for an exclusive app. Where are the SkinsFactory quality skins made just for the hell of it to the delight of their peers? Wasn’t that the mood in the beginning? Isn’t that the mood with the Mac folks?
I believe hobbyists are the ones that make or break this community. I was really alienated when I was told that I was foolish for not turning our hobby into a business by numerous people, over and over. The same could be said for any hobby; model airplanes to knitting. The hobbyist wants to make his own masterpiece for its own sake, regardless of compensation. Commercial endeavors are for the PUBLIC and the PUBLIC just wants something slick to match their Harry Potter lunchbox, or at least something mediocre with some Harry Potter stickers glued on. Personal interpretation of commercialism and ‘fan art’ aside, skilled hobbyists are alienated by such mainstreaming, and they are less apt to contribute and associate because of it.
That was what I thought then, and though I wish I had stated my concerns differently, I still feel the same. I have also accepted that there is nothing that can be done about it. The downloader is going to dictate the site, not the skinner.
I can fix my own attitude, though. I just have to stop being ashamed that I'm not producing commercially and do it for the love of the art. I also need to stop focusing on those without the creativity to make their own art. That, too, discourages us from creating and sharing. We aren’t benefiting ourselves by watchdogging and warring, we should be out-producing them and over-shadowing them with quality.
The spotlight needs to return to what made the community great in the first place, amateur artists creating beautiful skins just because they LOVE to make beautiful skins. That is what you see in the Mac community, I think, and what we have lost.
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Reply #1 Saturday, November 15, 2003 1:03 AM