Pledge of Allegiance Case
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 by Z06Leonhart | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to decide whether the Pledge of Allegiance - with its phrase "one nation, under God" - is something students should be allowed to say in public schools.
A federal appeals court in San Francisco shocked many Americans when it ruled on June 26, 2002, that the words "under God" render the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional.... http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200310\NAT20031014d.html
I think a lot people know about this case. It has been a while but now the Supreme Court have decided to hear the case. My class will have a debate on this next week. I just want to know what the adult think about this case.
A federal appeals court in San Francisco shocked many Americans when it ruled on June 26, 2002, that the words "under God" render the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional.... http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200310\NAT20031014d.html
I think a lot people know about this case. It has been a while but now the Supreme Court have decided to hear the case. My class will have a debate on this next week. I just want to know what the adult think about this case.
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bakerstreet
Reply #22 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 2:55 PM
Reply #22 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 2:55 PM
IPlural: The problem is three generations of Americans have been saying "under God". Most wouldn't see it as a simple revision. Suddenly the US government will be perceived as discouraging optional religious language. Then the lawsuits start from the other side. It should never be put in, but now that it is... it is a big mess.
I personally think if they have one at all they could leave 'to the flag' out of it as well. "I pledge allegiance to the United States of America, one nation, indivisible..." would be more to the point and a bit less creepy.
I personally think if they have one at all they could leave 'to the flag' out of it as well. "I pledge allegiance to the United States of America, one nation, indivisible..." would be more to the point and a bit less creepy.
Doreen
Reply #23 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:02 PM
Reply #23 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:02 PM
but what is next? look at your dollar bill "In God we trust" uh oh! there is that word "God" on it! OMG!
Doreen
Reply #24 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:03 PM
Reply #24 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:03 PM
or since it is on a "Dollar" bill the ppl that don't believe in God have no prob w/ seeing it there? hehe
so rediculous...
so rediculous...
IPlural
Reply #25 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:03 PM
Reply #25 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:03 PM
yeppers Doreen and BakerStreet...
I feel there has been a serious shift in the accepted definition of what it means to be patriotic in that to some extent.
I mean the Government for the People by the People is a nice thing to think, but sadly it seems more and more to be smoke and mirrors.
It is the nation and people we should pledge our allegiance to, the protection, support and gratitude for what such an assembly gives us.
Not some institutionalized lobby driven special interest seeking corporate pandering group who are professional politicians who plan a game of Risk on a global scale while playing at being the card holder and banker in a game of National Monopoly.
I know, I know and have heard it before, but remember I'm just a goof
I am very conservative in some ways while being just as extreamly liberal in others and the splinters at times hurt like all get out
I feel there has been a serious shift in the accepted definition of what it means to be patriotic in that to some extent.
I mean the Government for the People by the People is a nice thing to think, but sadly it seems more and more to be smoke and mirrors.
It is the nation and people we should pledge our allegiance to, the protection, support and gratitude for what such an assembly gives us.
Not some institutionalized lobby driven special interest seeking corporate pandering group who are professional politicians who plan a game of Risk on a global scale while playing at being the card holder and banker in a game of National Monopoly.
I know, I know and have heard it before, but remember I'm just a goof
I am very conservative in some ways while being just as extreamly liberal in others and the splinters at times hurt like all get out
paxx
Reply #26 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:04 PM
Reply #26 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:04 PM
Hehehe! Why thank you Baker; that's got to be a first.
But, any way, under God or not, I just find the whole idea of saying every day "I pledge allegiance to the United States of America, etc." really creepy.
So, BakerStreet, you're saying that kids don't HAVE to say it? If they so choose, or their parents, they are allowed to sit back and watch everybody else get brain washed? I was under the impression they had to, with all the fuss of the original story of that father.
paxx
Reply #27 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:06 PM
Reply #27 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:06 PM
Actually, IPlural, if anything, it should be the governement that pledges allegiance to the people of the United States of America, not the other way around.
KarmaGirl
Reply #28 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:11 PM
Reply #28 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:11 PM
The original pledge was:
'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.'
Quite different than what it is now.
However, I see no problem in the word "God". It doesn't claim a certain faith. It is not saying "Christian God". I'm not religious at all, and I still have no problem with the word. People have to fight over the most insignificant things....
Doreen
Reply #29 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:12 PM
Reply #29 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:12 PM
I remember in school when I was alittle girl standing there being assembled in line on the playground and being told to put my hand on my heart and say that stupid pledge w/ all the other kids...
(course I never knew what the words were so I just stood there, usually the teacher yelling at me to keep my hand on my heart)
never even knew what in the world these ppl around me are doing this for? I felt so stupid but you had to do it everyday before you went into class...
It serves no purpose I think to make kids do that silly pledge...
[Message Edited]
(course I never knew what the words were so I just stood there, usually the teacher yelling at me to keep my hand on my heart)
never even knew what in the world these ppl around me are doing this for? I felt so stupid but you had to do it everyday before you went into class...
It serves no purpose I think to make kids do that silly pledge...
[Message Edited]
IPlural
Reply #30 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:12 PM
Reply #30 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:12 PM
That is the insidious nature of playing to one special interest group, it always comes back around to bite you in the end.
Maybe there should be a National Vote to decide for once and all....
Is the USA a Christian Nation, period and at that point they should put God on everything and jail all of us who refuse to take part in the dogma, while covering women and female children so men do not have evil thoughts and beat them in public if they show something as offensive as an ankle. Oh wait...
naaa, wouldn't work, then we couldn't have a war on Islam
I think it's a bit more complex as you peal the layers off and start addressing the issues one by one. But for a fact, they need to stop pandering to special interest groups of all camps and lobbying should be ended and the elc-college should be disovled as part of the political process. It served it's purpose and now is nothing more than a political tool of those who are funded by special interest on both sides.
Maybe there should be a National Vote to decide for once and all....
Is the USA a Christian Nation, period and at that point they should put God on everything and jail all of us who refuse to take part in the dogma, while covering women and female children so men do not have evil thoughts and beat them in public if they show something as offensive as an ankle. Oh wait...
naaa, wouldn't work, then we couldn't have a war on Islam
I think it's a bit more complex as you peal the layers off and start addressing the issues one by one. But for a fact, they need to stop pandering to special interest groups of all camps and lobbying should be ended and the elc-college should be disovled as part of the political process. It served it's purpose and now is nothing more than a political tool of those who are funded by special interest on both sides.
IPlural
Reply #31 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:14 PM
Reply #31 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:14 PM
and no I do not think we are at war with Islam...
it was sarcasm on my part
it was sarcasm on my part
Doreen
Reply #32 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:15 PM
Reply #32 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:15 PM
But Java didn't it feel wrong to be told to stand in line and forced to say that? It made me feel ackward and strange I hated it...
Java what are the words "now" to that pledge exactly?
[Message Edited]
Java what are the words "now" to that pledge exactly?
[Message Edited]
Z06Leonhart
Reply #33 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:18 PM
Reply #33 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:18 PM
I'm in high school(public), before they they start the pledge allegiance they ask everyone to be silent for a 30 sec prayer(i guess pray for the school).
IPlural
Reply #34 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:30 PM
Reply #34 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:30 PM
Doreen, yes I also noticed that in the 60's when I was in grade school...
Also saying school prayer every morning was something that really bothered me...
Milford Beach Connecticut 1969 , Ansonia Connecticut 1970 and then a move to Largo Florida 1972
changed everything, then it was only the pledge...
My daughter was asked by a young girl in her class if she goes to church and when Shelby said no, she was laughed at, picked on and told she was going to hell while also being totally stupid as a rock because God knows she doesn't believe in him.
This happened last grading period, at that point I told my daughter when someone asks her something personal to tell them to mind their own business and ignore them. If they push her as has happened since then I have told her to warn them once to keep their hands off her and if they do it again to make use of her right to protect herself and we would deal with the out come when it came.
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KarmaGril, but that *is* the assumption, that it is in fact a Christian God this Nation bows to and was built worshiping.
That is why I feel it hsould be removed and recited by the origional text and then those who want to push religion into public schools and every manner of life can fight their fight out in the open from behind the smoke and mirrors and those who wish to fight against that happening can do the same.
Also saying school prayer every morning was something that really bothered me...
Milford Beach Connecticut 1969 , Ansonia Connecticut 1970 and then a move to Largo Florida 1972
changed everything, then it was only the pledge...
My daughter was asked by a young girl in her class if she goes to church and when Shelby said no, she was laughed at, picked on and told she was going to hell while also being totally stupid as a rock because God knows she doesn't believe in him.
This happened last grading period, at that point I told my daughter when someone asks her something personal to tell them to mind their own business and ignore them. If they push her as has happened since then I have told her to warn them once to keep their hands off her and if they do it again to make use of her right to protect herself and we would deal with the out come when it came.
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KarmaGril, but that *is* the assumption, that it is in fact a Christian God this Nation bows to and was built worshiping.
That is why I feel it hsould be removed and recited by the origional text and then those who want to push religion into public schools and every manner of life can fight their fight out in the open from behind the smoke and mirrors and those who wish to fight against that happening can do the same.
Doreen
Reply #35 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:41 PM
Reply #35 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:41 PM
Z06 30 second prayer??? what kind of decent prayer can you say in 30 seconds... hehe!
yeah IP I remember always getting yelled at in line cuz I did not want to put my hand on my heart and do that pledge it always felt ackward and stupid for me...
yeah IP I remember always getting yelled at in line cuz I did not want to put my hand on my heart and do that pledge it always felt ackward and stupid for me...
KarmaGirl
Reply #36 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:47 PM
Reply #36 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:47 PM
| #32 by Doreen - 11/4/2003 3:15:44 PM But Java didn't it feel wrong to be told to stand in line and forced to say that? It made me feel ackward and strange I hated it... Java what are the words "now" to that pledge exactly? |
No. I never felt odd. i come from a family that has been in the military. My Grandfather was in WWII, my Dad was in the army during Vietnam. The pledge has always been an affirmation of my belief in this country. I never cared about the "God" part, and I never saw it as "Christian".
The pledge is: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all."
The full Star Spangled Banner (We only ever hear the first verse) also has:
"And this be our motto: In God is our trust." in it 
Doreen
Reply #37 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:48 PM
Reply #37 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:48 PM
hehe! I just asked my son what the pledge is and he don't know it either, he gets as far as the word America... hehe
(must run in the blood)
(must run in the blood)
Doreen
Reply #39 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:51 PM
Reply #39 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:51 PM
Thanks Java, I was had just asked my son cuz I was curious if he knew it since he has to say it everyday, and he just told me he hates doing it and does not know all the words either... hehe
(no he's not playing hooky from school he is out sick right now)
(no he's not playing hooky from school he is out sick right now)
Aleatoric
Reply #40 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 4:35 PM
Reply #40 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 4:35 PM
Here's a brief outline of the history of the pledge.
http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm
http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm
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Reply #21 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 2:49 PM