Creation vs. Evolution
Thursday, September 11, 2003 by grayhaze | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I thought I'd pre-empt this discussion before Kona's comment in the other thread sparked it off there. There is concrete proof that we evolved, but no proof that we were created. What's you're opinion, and why?
To quote Phoebe from Friends: "I guess the real question is who put those fossils there and why?"
To quote Phoebe from Friends: "I guess the real question is who put those fossils there and why?"
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joetheblow
Reply #102 Friday, September 12, 2003 7:05 AM
Reply #102 Friday, September 12, 2003 7:05 AM
Hey I was wondering, since I have read allot of this...
Has anyone ever thought about interpetation? If the Bible is a book about evrything that happened or will happen in this place could it be possible that people interpeted it wrong?
Like the idea that all that was created was done 12,000 years ago? Or that Dinosaurs can be found in the writings?
Has anyone ever thought about interpetation? If the Bible is a book about evrything that happened or will happen in this place could it be possible that people interpeted it wrong?
Like the idea that all that was created was done 12,000 years ago? Or that Dinosaurs can be found in the writings?
joetheblow
Reply #103 Friday, September 12, 2003 7:09 AM
Reply #103 Friday, September 12, 2003 7:09 AM
I can't believe my eyes!! Bakerstreet is here too!
I think Bakerstreet needs a blog.
I think Bakerstreet needs a blog.
joetheblow
Reply #104 Friday, September 12, 2003 7:24 AM
I forgot to say I agree mostly with what you said (errr wrote).
The Bible or other texts are guides with references. They are not to be read as word for word in some kind of literal way.
In any event I have thought about this myslef and I do believe it is a journey I hope all take. Right now my conclusion is that there is a force of thought that has created this existance. I just do not know what that means. This force can be intellegent or just un-knowing yet it holds all the rules and laws that we all fall under.
Where I am at right now is trying to theorize if that 'force' can be more like a rock as far as thinking is conserned or not...
One way or the other I don't think anyone can say there isn't a force because we exist inside of it full of laws, rules and possibilities.
Reply #104 Friday, September 12, 2003 7:24 AM
| #66 by Aleatoric - 9/11/2003 4:22:37 PM |
I forgot to say I agree mostly with what you said (errr wrote).
The Bible or other texts are guides with references. They are not to be read as word for word in some kind of literal way.
In any event I have thought about this myslef and I do believe it is a journey I hope all take. Right now my conclusion is that there is a force of thought that has created this existance. I just do not know what that means. This force can be intellegent or just un-knowing yet it holds all the rules and laws that we all fall under.
Where I am at right now is trying to theorize if that 'force' can be more like a rock as far as thinking is conserned or not...
One way or the other I don't think anyone can say there isn't a force because we exist inside of it full of laws, rules and possibilities.
paxx
Reply #105 Friday, September 12, 2003 7:47 AM
Reply #105 Friday, September 12, 2003 7:47 AM
There is also a hypothesis (it's not really a religion, but more like a concept) that regards the planet Earth as a greater living organisms. They call "her" Gaia. Yhe idea is that just we, humans, are composed of millions of smaller organisms (cells) that as a whole make up what we are, Gaia would also be a greater being of which we, as well as other animals, plants, rocks, seas, etc, are just one components.
Here's an interesting read: http://www.webcom.com/gaia/living_earth.html
It's an exerpt from Peter Russel's book "The Global Brain Awakens".
Here's an interesting read: http://www.webcom.com/gaia/living_earth.html
It's an exerpt from Peter Russel's book "The Global Brain Awakens".
Xerraire
Reply #106 Friday, September 12, 2003 7:50 AM
Reply #106 Friday, September 12, 2003 7:50 AM
Paxx
disliking religions would give you something in common with Jesus, He didn't like the religions of His day either.
disliking religions would give you something in common with Jesus, He didn't like the religions of His day either.
craeonics
Reply #107 Friday, September 12, 2003 8:55 AM
Reply #107 Friday, September 12, 2003 8:55 AM
And neither did Mohammed, or any other founder of religions.
I like the Gaea theory. After all, we're all stuck on this rock, so what one does in some way or another affects the others on the rock as well. I a way, we're all walking/talking Gaea's, composed of millions of micro organisms.
I like the Gaea theory. After all, we're all stuck on this rock, so what one does in some way or another affects the others on the rock as well. I a way, we're all walking/talking Gaea's, composed of millions of micro organisms.
craeonics
Reply #108 Friday, September 12, 2003 8:57 AM
Reply #108 Friday, September 12, 2003 8:57 AM
I must learn to read, for I just completely echoed what the paxxmaster already said.
IPlural
Reply #109 Friday, September 12, 2003 9:18 AM
Reply #109 Friday, September 12, 2003 9:18 AM
but they were not founders of religion really, people founded religions around them and added what they liked and ignored what they disliked, or amended it to fit who they wanted it to.
For example : " Thou shalt not Kill " does not leave room for inturpertation. It is exactly what it states. Those who presume to know Gods thoughts when God passed this on the humankind are really painting themselves being God like in my opinion.
It is either Gods Law as given, or it is Human based completely.
Thou shalt not Kill does not read Thou shalt not Murder in the least...
Neandertal might have not died out, there has been a new theory making its run, that they interbred with the other Human beings, now modern human kind.
They were in fact just as Human as us....
For example : " Thou shalt not Kill " does not leave room for inturpertation. It is exactly what it states. Those who presume to know Gods thoughts when God passed this on the humankind are really painting themselves being God like in my opinion.
It is either Gods Law as given, or it is Human based completely.
Thou shalt not Kill does not read Thou shalt not Murder in the least...
Neandertal might have not died out, there has been a new theory making its run, that they interbred with the other Human beings, now modern human kind.
They were in fact just as Human as us....
DavidK
Reply #110 Friday, September 12, 2003 10:29 AM
Reply #110 Friday, September 12, 2003 10:29 AM
A friend of mine was working on a theory that the Neanderthal people, who were hunter-gatherers, were forced out of their hunting grounds by the Cro-Magnon who developed farming. In his theory they moved into the Pyrenees mountains - the modern home of the Basque people. The idea came originally from linguistics. The Basque language has no root language or association with any other known language. This is only found in one other language, Finnish, which also appears to have developed on its own. I tried to get my friend to apply for a grant to pursue this further but he was busy with other stuff. Eventually, about ten years later, I saw a piece in Scientific American promoting the same theory. Today it's believed the Neanderthal didn't die out and actually co-existed with the dominant Cro-Magnon.
In the Sumerian version of things there were several experiments that could have brought both races the extra step towards modern man. The original creation experiments were done in Africa and produced a hybrid species of workers which the Anunaki were quite pleased with. The work was done by the leader of the Under World (southern hemisphere) who was the chief science officer of the Anunaki, Ea (Enki) and was assisted in the experiments by the chief medical officer, Ninhursag. The original hybrids combining the primitive man and Anunaki genes were the world's first test tube babies. After a working model was obtained and put to work in the mines in southeastern Africa with great success, the leader of the northern hemisphere, Enlil, decided these workers would benefit his efforts in the gardens and farms of the Mesopotamian valley, called at the time E.Din (The Abode of the Righteous Ones). Enlil brought some of the workers to E.Din and also set up a lab to do further experiments with refining the model. This is recounted in the Bible "And the Lord took the Adam, and He placed him in the garden of Eden, to till it and tend it."
joe - I don't have a blog... yet. I was just saying I should start one at joeuser.com I just don't have much time and never think to blab about stuff unless I see something on the message board that inspires me to say something.
DavidK
Reply #111 Friday, September 12, 2003 10:40 AM
Reply #111 Friday, September 12, 2003 10:40 AM
What I find most fascinating about the Sumerian texts is their age and the obvious similarity with all the texts (including the Bible) that followed. Knowing these were written 2,000 years before the Bible texts makes the stories, with all their incredible detail, look like the original version of the later books. Even the flood story is almost identical but vastly enhanced with detail.
Aleatoric
Reply #112 Friday, September 12, 2003 11:37 AM
Reply #112 Friday, September 12, 2003 11:37 AM
IPlural,
Actually, the translation from the hebrew can be interpreted as 'thou shalt not murder'. Various rabbinical translations state it thus.
I also think murder is a better fit than kill, considering that the text also describes many instances where God commands that all inhabitants of an enemy city be killed. Not to mention several other injunctions where killing is required as punishment for a crime, etc. For God to make a commandment that states 'thou shalt not kill', without exception, and then follow that with many other injunctions to kill describes a hypocritical God, one I don't believe in. However, a commandment against murder does allow killing to be used for other purposes (we may not agree, but at least it isn't hypocritical).
Otherwise, if you are required to kill someone in self defense (to use an example), you are sinning against God by doing so, no matter what the rationalization.
Actually, the translation from the hebrew can be interpreted as 'thou shalt not murder'. Various rabbinical translations state it thus.
I also think murder is a better fit than kill, considering that the text also describes many instances where God commands that all inhabitants of an enemy city be killed. Not to mention several other injunctions where killing is required as punishment for a crime, etc. For God to make a commandment that states 'thou shalt not kill', without exception, and then follow that with many other injunctions to kill describes a hypocritical God, one I don't believe in. However, a commandment against murder does allow killing to be used for other purposes (we may not agree, but at least it isn't hypocritical).
Otherwise, if you are required to kill someone in self defense (to use an example), you are sinning against God by doing so, no matter what the rationalization.
paxx
Reply #114 Friday, September 12, 2003 11:45 AM
Reply #114 Friday, September 12, 2003 11:45 AM
Talking about a hypocretical God, Aleatoric, what do you think of the change of heart God seemed to have had between the Old and the New Testament? In the Old Testament, God is threatening, punishing, and commands great fear, while in the New Testament it's all about a loving, forgiving God preaching us to turn the other cheak.
What's your thoughts on that?
The Rated PG
Reply #115 Friday, September 12, 2003 12:07 PM
Reply #115 Friday, September 12, 2003 12:07 PM
pax the old and new testaments don't display these differences you have stated. read it again. If you notice the New testament was written after Jesus time. When He spoke of these quotes you are refering to, The Bible Jesus read from was indeed the Old Testament.
KarmaGirl
Reply #116 Friday, September 12, 2003 12:28 PM
Reply #116 Friday, September 12, 2003 12:28 PM
If god created the Universe, why did he hate the aliens so much in
Signs? And, why are humans so naked and puny compared to other
creatures? And, if we're made in his likeness...I think he needs to go on
a diet....
I believe that something created us and we evolved from that. However, I have no belief that there is something after death. I believe that death is what it is like when you are put under for an operation, except you don't wake up. You just never knew that you ever existed. After having a few surgeries, I have come to grips with my own mortality. I just can not believe that death is anything but unaware nothingness.
paxx
Reply #117 Friday, September 12, 2003 12:31 PM
Reply #117 Friday, September 12, 2003 12:31 PM
I understand that Jesus was jewish. I've even read some studies that seem to think that his father (Joseph) was a High Priest in the Temple of Salomon in Jerusalem. But anyway, that's another story.
I have indeed read the Bible cover to cover many times. And I can't see from those writtings that both books refer to the same God.
There is the God of the Old Testament;
There is the God of the New Testament;
There is Allah (seems to be a mix of the God of the Old and the New Testament);
There is Buddah;
And many more...
Before that there were Ra, Zeus, Jupiter, Odin and countless more.
Who really is God? Who is the true God? Of course, everybody says it's His...
Aleatoric
Reply #118 Friday, September 12, 2003 1:15 PM
Reply #118 Friday, September 12, 2003 1:15 PM
Part of the problem is that everyone wants a God that reinforces their own view of the world, and the authors of the various parts of the Bible (not to mention the other texts) tended to project that desire in the text.
Although a believer, I cannot accept (as a whole) any of the dogma of any of the existing religions, since, without fail, they all tend to portray a God that is (or can be) hateful, jealous, vindictive, exclusionary, and so forth. A god with those qualities is not really God, and is certainly not worthy of reverence. I do think that many of the religious viewpoints are (or were) an honest attempt to try to understand God. The problem comes about with human dynamics and their tendency to subvert any socially binding context into something that can be used to control others. When someone tells me that they speak for God, I hide my wallet and run, because such a person either wants money or power (or both), and is not honestly interested in what God really wants (and more than likely, doesn't even know). They are using God for their own ends.
I believe that ultimately, God cares about what we do, and how we treat others, not about which particular sect we belong to, or what particular words we read or use.
Although a believer, I cannot accept (as a whole) any of the dogma of any of the existing religions, since, without fail, they all tend to portray a God that is (or can be) hateful, jealous, vindictive, exclusionary, and so forth. A god with those qualities is not really God, and is certainly not worthy of reverence. I do think that many of the religious viewpoints are (or were) an honest attempt to try to understand God. The problem comes about with human dynamics and their tendency to subvert any socially binding context into something that can be used to control others. When someone tells me that they speak for God, I hide my wallet and run, because such a person either wants money or power (or both), and is not honestly interested in what God really wants (and more than likely, doesn't even know). They are using God for their own ends.
I believe that ultimately, God cares about what we do, and how we treat others, not about which particular sect we belong to, or what particular words we read or use.
Satans Child
Reply #119 Friday, September 12, 2003 1:18 PM
Reply #119 Friday, September 12, 2003 1:18 PM
"GOD" is a fictional character made up by kings, pharoah's and the like to keep order in their kingdoms and to keep their subordinates in line.
Satans Child
Reply #120 Friday, September 12, 2003 1:19 PM
Reply #120 Friday, September 12, 2003 1:19 PM
I actually don't know but it sounds good to me. 
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Reply #101 Friday, September 12, 2003 7:01 AM