Creation vs. Evolution
Thursday, September 11, 2003 by grayhaze | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I thought I'd pre-empt this discussion before Kona's comment in the other thread sparked it off there. There is concrete proof that we evolved, but no proof that we were created. What's you're opinion, and why?
To quote Phoebe from Friends: "I guess the real question is who put those fossils there and why?"
To quote Phoebe from Friends: "I guess the real question is who put those fossils there and why?"
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paxx
Reply #382 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:37 PM
Reply #382 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:37 PM
Soory, Doreen, I just did a little research. Seems that my information was out of date. 
Since the 90's, it's believe that although a wolf-like creature could be a far ancestor, it's not it's closest relative.
If you feel like a little scientific reading, this page has a little information: http://www.cresli.org/cresli/cetacean/cetaceans.html
Doreen
Reply #383 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:38 PM
Reply #383 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:38 PM
yeah well does the male of that creature incubate the babies in his abdomen? try to top that! hehe 
Doreen
Reply #384 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:40 PM
Reply #384 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:40 PM
hehe paxxy no way I'm tired got alot to do tonight and no time for more mythical readings maybe tomorrow
this blasted msg board is more then enough reading for me
this blasted msg board is more then enough reading for me
The Rated PG
Reply #385 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:07 PM
Reply #385 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:07 PM
intersting read http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/3270.asp?vPrint=1
joetheblow
Reply #386 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:09 PM
Reply #386 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:09 PM
I like whales, dolphins, elephants and dogs... and cats.
Hus
Reply #387 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:14 PM
Reply #387 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:14 PM
Have you ever thought of how animals and other life forms came to be? Who created them? Where did the first spider come from? What about the first fly? First lion? Do they believe in god? 
joetheblow
Reply #388 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:22 PM
Reply #388 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:22 PM
whales are the best. and those dolphins, what friends they make! Their culture is so cool.
So now that evolution is clearly the way to go, how come it doesn't explain everything? Why one thumb? Why not six fingers and a thumb?
I think evolution explains allot more clearly than the Bible does about the details but what I gather from humans and human 'understanding' it is ever changing.
I truly believe (at this current time) it would be very hard to have faith in someone if everything is explained. Faith is different than assumptions as someone stated before.
So why would the worlds religions have a explicit answer? Created by man? Sure. Does it mean that the creation of it had no merit or basis in fact? I just don't know.
There are spaced in the evolution of humans. Maybe some missing link(s) or maybe assumed links never found.
We are at a current level of knowledge. At this point this is what we know much like the point where people had 'faith' knew what they knew to explain things. Now we explain them differently, does that make those in the past unwise? Creating a God to explain the world around them?
Believe it or not, a 'God' sort of speak controls or is involved with our development. The god of evolution and its laws or the god of creation and its law. We all fall under the realm of this Universe and this Universe is our God.
So now that evolution is clearly the way to go, how come it doesn't explain everything? Why one thumb? Why not six fingers and a thumb?
I think evolution explains allot more clearly than the Bible does about the details but what I gather from humans and human 'understanding' it is ever changing.
I truly believe (at this current time) it would be very hard to have faith in someone if everything is explained. Faith is different than assumptions as someone stated before.
So why would the worlds religions have a explicit answer? Created by man? Sure. Does it mean that the creation of it had no merit or basis in fact? I just don't know.
There are spaced in the evolution of humans. Maybe some missing link(s) or maybe assumed links never found.
We are at a current level of knowledge. At this point this is what we know much like the point where people had 'faith' knew what they knew to explain things. Now we explain them differently, does that make those in the past unwise? Creating a God to explain the world around them?
Believe it or not, a 'God' sort of speak controls or is involved with our development. The god of evolution and its laws or the god of creation and its law. We all fall under the realm of this Universe and this Universe is our God.
The Rated PG
Reply #389 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:22 PM
One can observe great variation in a kind, and see the results of natural selection. For instance, dingoes, wolves and coyotes have developed over time as a result of natural selection operating on the information in the genes of the wolf/dog kind.
But no new information was produced — these varieties have resulted from rearrangement, and sorting out, of the information in the original dog kind. One kind has never been observed to change into a totally different kind with new information that previously did not exist!
Without a way to increase information, natural selection will not work as a mechanism for evolution.
Reply #389 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:22 PM
| Hey, that kinda reminds me, did you know that cetaceans (sea mamals such as whales and dolphins) are actually thought to have been land animals that went back in the water? Guess what the ancestor of the whale is thought to be? The wolf. Funny. |
One can observe great variation in a kind, and see the results of natural selection. For instance, dingoes, wolves and coyotes have developed over time as a result of natural selection operating on the information in the genes of the wolf/dog kind.
But no new information was produced — these varieties have resulted from rearrangement, and sorting out, of the information in the original dog kind. One kind has never been observed to change into a totally different kind with new information that previously did not exist!
Without a way to increase information, natural selection will not work as a mechanism for evolution.
Hus
Reply #391 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:40 PM
I don't follow...
Reply #391 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:40 PM
| For instance, dingoes, wolves and coyotes have developed over time as a result of natural selection operating on the information in the genes of the wolf/dog kind Without a way to increase information, natural selection will not work as a mechanism for evolution |
I don't follow...
Gyurza
Reply #392 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 9:03 PM
Reply #392 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 9:03 PM
"The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'" (Psalm
14:1).
...."All of the wonders around us are accidental. No almighty
hand made a thousand-billion stars. They made themselves.
No power keeps them on their steady course. The earth spins
itself to keep the oceans from falling off toward the sun.
Infants teach themselves to cry when they are hungry or
hurt. A small flower invented itself so that we could
extract digitalis for sick hearts. The earth gave itself
day and night, tilted itself so that we get seasons.
Without the magnetic poles man would be unable to navigate
the trackless oceans of water and air, but they just grew
there.
"How about the sugar thermostat in the pancreas? It
maintains a level of sugar in the blood sufficient for
energy. Without it, all of us would fall into a coma and
die. Why does snow sit on mountaintops waiting for the warm
spring sun to melt it at just the right time for the young
crops in farms below to drink? A very lovely accident.
"A human heart will beat for 70 or 80 years without
faltering. How does it get sufficient rest between beats? A
kidney will filter poison from the blood, and leave good
things alone. How does it know one from the other? Who gave
the human tongue flexibility to form words, and a brain to
understand them, but denied it to all other animals? Who
showed a womb how to take the love of two persons and keep
splitting a tiny ovum until, in time, a baby would have the
proper number of fingers, eyes and ears and hair in the
right places, and come into the world when it is strong
enough to sustain life?"¹
There is no God?
Regarding agnostics and atheists, theirs is not so much an
intellectual problem, but a moral responsibility problem.
If they choose to believe in God, they know that they will
be morally responsible and accountable. It is much easier,
more convenient, and more self-centered to believe there is
no God. Indeed, "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is
no God'"
The is only one God all migthy, our LORD and Savior
and through JESUS His son we can all get to HIM.
Gyurza®
14:1).
...."All of the wonders around us are accidental. No almighty
hand made a thousand-billion stars. They made themselves.
No power keeps them on their steady course. The earth spins
itself to keep the oceans from falling off toward the sun.
Infants teach themselves to cry when they are hungry or
hurt. A small flower invented itself so that we could
extract digitalis for sick hearts. The earth gave itself
day and night, tilted itself so that we get seasons.
Without the magnetic poles man would be unable to navigate
the trackless oceans of water and air, but they just grew
there.
"How about the sugar thermostat in the pancreas? It
maintains a level of sugar in the blood sufficient for
energy. Without it, all of us would fall into a coma and
die. Why does snow sit on mountaintops waiting for the warm
spring sun to melt it at just the right time for the young
crops in farms below to drink? A very lovely accident.
"A human heart will beat for 70 or 80 years without
faltering. How does it get sufficient rest between beats? A
kidney will filter poison from the blood, and leave good
things alone. How does it know one from the other? Who gave
the human tongue flexibility to form words, and a brain to
understand them, but denied it to all other animals? Who
showed a womb how to take the love of two persons and keep
splitting a tiny ovum until, in time, a baby would have the
proper number of fingers, eyes and ears and hair in the
right places, and come into the world when it is strong
enough to sustain life?"¹
There is no God?
Regarding agnostics and atheists, theirs is not so much an
intellectual problem, but a moral responsibility problem.
If they choose to believe in God, they know that they will
be morally responsible and accountable. It is much easier,
more convenient, and more self-centered to believe there is
no God. Indeed, "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is
no God'"
The is only one God all migthy, our LORD and Savior
and through JESUS His son we can all get to HIM.
Gyurza®
joetheblow
Reply #393 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 10:40 PM
Reply #393 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 10:40 PM
Science will answer that eventually... join them!
I still say that we all are in this Universe and whether it was on purpose or not it still is our God because it created us (by evolution or creation... it doesn't matter)
All science is doing is explaining some (very minuscule amount) facts like water is H2O or the human heart beating for 70 years without stopping.
Some people hide behind God for answers. Some people hide behind science for answers: Conclusion?
We are still hiding.
Not smart enough to understand the Bible or other works and to dumb to see there is more to the science of things.
What a pickle...
I still say that we all are in this Universe and whether it was on purpose or not it still is our God because it created us (by evolution or creation... it doesn't matter)
All science is doing is explaining some (very minuscule amount) facts like water is H2O or the human heart beating for 70 years without stopping.
Some people hide behind God for answers. Some people hide behind science for answers: Conclusion?
We are still hiding.
Not smart enough to understand the Bible or other works and to dumb to see there is more to the science of things.
What a pickle...
IPlural
Reply #394 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 11:30 PM
Reply #394 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 11:30 PM
*sigh* well if there is a God I hope she gets it right the next time around...
joetheblow
Reply #395 Thursday, September 18, 2003 12:06 AM
Reply #395 Thursday, September 18, 2003 12:06 AM
maybe we're the 10 time around...
Dinosaurs took to long.
Dinosaurs took to long.
Tech-Cat
Reply #397 Thursday, September 18, 2003 6:43 AM
Reply #397 Thursday, September 18, 2003 6:43 AM
Anyone who does not believe in God should try reading stuff written by Thomas Aquinas. He was a philosopher that attempted to prove the existence to God. Maybe nobody can prove God's existence, but Thomas Aquinas made some really good arguments that leads one to think that there is a strong possibility that maybe there is a God. Summa Theologica is a good book to look into: http://www.ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/home.html
Doreen
Reply #398 Thursday, September 18, 2003 7:09 AM
Reply #398 Thursday, September 18, 2003 7:09 AM
nah anyone that does not believe in God needs to go to the beach and the observatory at night alone (just one time alone) hehe
bottom line is each one of us get's the chance to "decide" whether or not "we" want to know.
*yawn* me is tired me goes to grab tunes and wake up! (I'm thankful to God he gave me ears) hehe
bottom line is each one of us get's the chance to "decide" whether or not "we" want to know.
*yawn* me is tired me goes to grab tunes and wake up! (I'm thankful to God he gave me ears) hehe
KarmaGirl
Reply #399 Thursday, September 18, 2003 7:42 AM
Reply #399 Thursday, September 18, 2003 7:42 AM
| #375 by bordfryr123 - 9/17/2003 7:26:28 PM #362 by Admin KarmaGirl - 9/17/2003 5:50:10 PM I always view the bible of a collection of sensationalized tales Obviously, hasn't read the Bible. |
Actually, I have. But not with interpretation by a church. You can view it however you want. I view it my way.
If "God" is so great, why would he need to give us a book to tell us how to live? Wouldn't we be born with such knowledge? Why would we have to be taught about "God". The spirituality of native American Indians is amazing, and they don't require a "book". *But* they do have a lot of folklore that is handed down from generation to generation (If you put that folklore in a book, you would have the equivalent of the bible, but in Native American Indian terms.)
paxx
Reply #400 Thursday, September 18, 2003 8:32 AM
[Message Edited]
Reply #400 Thursday, September 18, 2003 8:32 AM
Well, Karmagirl, the fact that native american indians religion doesn't require a book could also be explained by the fact that native americans didn't write before the advent of the white man on the continent. American Indian communication was entirely oral (well maybe smoke signals too). 
[Message Edited]
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Reply #381 Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:32 PM