Hello!

Tuesday, July 29, 2003 by adni18 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

WinCustomize is a great school!
Even if the majority of members here are not children any more( they still have a lot to learn!
I have learn a lot of things for 2 years now, thanks to you, thanks to positive or negative comments to authors and of course, thanks to messageboard arguments, they were all very useful, for one who likes to learn!
I must say there is a quallity in WinCustomize MessageBoard, you can't find very easy in a public MB.
There are some exceptions though, from some persons, but that's life, in any activity of life there are always some bad exceptions.

You may ask why I am writing all this now, because I have spend too many hours to read some long threads in the messageboard those last couple days, (you know the language problem for the foreigners) and I want to share my thoughts about what I have read with you.

Some really nice people, both sides, they have lost control when they have try to express their thoughts, both ways.
No harm is made, both sides they have understand well what is going on and they have turn down their tones.
I hope and I wish the tones remain like this.

Why all this happening, this is the important question!
I can tell you my opinion, it is the only thing I have to offer you about this problem.


Reason 1:
In the messageboard, there are some people who like to make fun to others, no matter if their fun hurts the others or they want to be accepted as clever or perfect ones. This gives a wrong and bad impression to many people who may think that this is WC.
(By the way, we must not forget that this is an Intenational site and not all are knowing the English language well, so this may be another reason of missunderstanding and wrong conclusions).

Solution to Reason 1:
The admins who are in general nice persons, (nobody wants to have an admin in his site who sending away the people), when the see a post that it is not well-meaning or it looks like an offence to another person, they must interact with good words and try to make them understand that this is not an acceptable post for a quality MB, even if they find it that it is correct or fun for them, but offensive for another person.
In that way those x persons they will learn to behave them selves and be nice for everyone and the offended ones will feel that at least they are among friendly people and mates.
We are a community, we must help each other.


Reason 2:
Some persons, are giving bad rattings not only for the quallity of a work, but also for who the artist is and this is some times not fair at all, this is for the bad and the good rates too, so the artists, who are always very sensitive, (how can any one be an artist
without sensitivity?), are geting hurt in a certain away.

Solution to the Reason 2:
The ratting system is very good for the admins and their friends, they are happy to see their high rates, so they find no reason to change it. I don't mean here that they don't deserve high rattings because they do, but this is not the point.
The point is, that very few are giving rates and the ratting system rules in WC, this doesn't happen in any other site, there are rates, but not so crucial as here. Some works disappear because of one bad rate which has been given for personal or taste reasons!
The solution is obvious.



Reason 3:
The moderation of wallpapers. I know and you know very well all the story, no need to repeat it here.

Solution to the Reason 3:
Make a new section for the wallpapers, a second one and put there all the wallpapers and let people deside which of them are going to be in the main Wallpaper section. A certain number of downloads will make a wallpaper jumb to the main Wallpapers section, please no rattings. If people like something let them have it!
A decent name for this second walls section must not have in any way an offensive name.
A slogan like:
"We are not moderating your wallpapers, we let you
decide
" is very friendly and no one can complain and give a headache to moderators.

This site is for the people and from the people!

(I know that Stardock pays for the site )

Wow! Did I wrote so many in English?
Yes I did, because I care!

Please, don't shoot the piano man!
First Previous Page 5 of 9 Next Last
adni18
Reply #81 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:50 AM
The authors are concerning about the visibility of their works Brad, not so much about the votes.
This Ratting System make their works hidden from the puplic and this the "cruel" part of the current ratting system.
adni18
Reply #82 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:55 AM
For example no author cares if their work have ratting 3, while in the same time, their work is no 1 in dowloads, which means that people like it, can you understand this?
Frogboy
Reply #83 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:57 AM

Anyone who is logged on, that is, any one of the ~700,000 users on this site can see every skin, theme, or wallpaper on this site.

Some of the sections of ratings filters on them as a way of encouraging peple to create accounts. Some sites reqiure you to create accounts to see anything. The typical rating filter, btw, is something like a 2 out of 10.

We do so as a way of trying to save bandwidth costs.

 

Frogboy
Reply #84 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:58 AM

For example no author cares if their work have ratting 3, while in the same time, their work is no 1 in dowloads, which means that people like it, can you understand this

Do you have an example of a skin or theme with a rating of 3 that has ever been also popular?  if it has a rating of 3, odds are it's because it's of low quality.

In addition, you just said the system is cruel because it hides skins of low rated skins. So how can a skin be both hidden and be the #1 download?

(None of the top 10 downloads today has a rating below 6). 
[Message Edited]
MadIce
Reply #85 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:02 AM
Where is the angst on deviantART or Deskmod or Customize or elsewhere on ratings? Why the double standard? This site exists for both authors and users.

Why is there angst to try something new?
adni18
Reply #86 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:08 AM
I got your point, but I said:
"no author cares if their work have ratting 3, while in the same time, their work is no 1 in dowloads, which means that people like it".
I said this as an example, trying to saw you that this way the system is more fair with no hidden works.
Saving the bandwith is another case.
Frogboy
Reply #87 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:10 AM

Madice, because we like the current system.

Angst has nothing to do with it. If I'm happily enjoying a chocolate ice cream and some guy insists that I need to try out his new purple swirl flavor and I say I've tried it before and didn't like it and that I like chocolate ice cream they are going to have to do a lot better than say "Well you haven't tried this brand of purple swirl icecream" to make me want to switch from chocolate. And in fact, it's more than switching, it's buying since it would cost us money in development time to switch.

Frogboy
Reply #88 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:11 AM
Adni, I agree 100% with you that it would be more fair if no works were hidden from non-logged on users. But we don't have that luxury, our bandwidth costs per year now are over $100,000. 
adni18
Reply #89 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:19 AM
I guess, the case is over for one more time.
Take care!
MadIce
Reply #90 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:48 AM
[...]it's buying since it would cost us money in development time to switch.

Ah. Well, that is a valid argument. I can live with that. As you know one can come up with arguments against things very easily. The power of innovation is not to find cons, but arguments to find pros. And about the chocolate example: You didn't try the new proposed system out. You are assumung it is bad. We are assuming it is good. That is why I tried to convince you to give it a go. But if money is an issue then there is not much we can do.

[Message Edited]
Koasati
Reply #91 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:30 AM
I personally don't see the problem with a user being required to log-in to the site, in order to view all works. 



Powered by SkinBrowser!
citats
Reply #92 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 11:20 AM
I agree with Koasati... only I would take it one step further... I think a user should have to log in to download anything. Being a member of wincustomize, presented with an clear understanding of the MB limits for non subscribers and an overall understanding of the bandwidth issues in general.
this alone prevents deep linking to downloads.
I do not believe the argument that such a mandatory log in would prevent users from frequenting Wincusto, but your unique # of visitors will drop and your member data base will grow.
Frogboy
Reply #93 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 11:32 AM

Well to be honest, if we had unlimited funds, we would let everyone download all skins an unlimited amount of times. I.e. no restrictions.

I personally don't like any restrictions on people's downloading. But unfortunately, the costs requires us to reach a compromise solution.

SuperheroCanadian
Reply #94 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 11:53 AM
madices solution is very viable, as it ellimanite that major problem witht he current rating system, irresponsible raters, it should be rated on how good it is for everyone else rather than the personal feeling about the wall/skin becasue having a 1 rated on anything ensures the public wont see it unless it gets alot of very high ratings to compensate.But if we get rid of the problem inthe first palce (irresponsable raters) then we shouldnt have a problem anymore with the current rating system.

My suggestion is to rase the bar for raters one more time, master apprentice, or journey man up.
MadIce
Reply #95 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:03 PM
We've spend some time thinking about it, didn't we, SHC?

Raising the bar looks like the best alternative.

Didn't you suggest that before dreaming up all this?
SuperheroCanadian
Reply #96 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:04 PM
yeap, and mind u, i had the biggest heache after that...
MadIce
Reply #97 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:05 PM
I needed to sleep badly at the time.
Anthony R
Reply #98 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:08 PM
I find rating systems flawed and personally I consider them useless, especially when it comes to audio/visual media, or arts of any kind.

Millions of people buy Michael Jackson albums, so his ratings are high, but I can’t stand his music and I am not alone so what difference does it make to me if there is a 10 next to his recording?

Another thing that depicts the failure of ratings is when a useful program available for download is unfairly targeted for low ratings by malicious users.

An EBay seller may be rated high, but I would suggest reading the last three comments because the last three transactions are the most important. While the sellers overall ratings are good to look at, I still need to check what the seller has done lately to be sure the seller has not suddenly lost his/her ethics.

The bottom line is that rating systems are flawed and need to be looked at with a grain of salt by anyone with half a brain.

A very old saying beauty is in the eye of the beholder or even better, Love's Labors Lost “Beauty is bought by judgment of the eye” Is applicable and there is always going to be an unbalanced response …however if a rating system must be implemented the only logical solution is A panel of trusted and respected members of the community, at least you can be sure with that system consistency and fairness will prevail.
Koasati
Reply #99 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:16 PM

however if a rating system must be implemented the only logical solution is A panel of trusted and respected members of the community, at least you can be sure with that system consistency and fairness will prevail.

And what are the moderators? 





Powered by SkinBrowser!
MadIce
Reply #100 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:18 PM
MadIce points to Koasati

Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.

Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:

  • Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
  • Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
  • Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
  • It's simple, and FREE!



web-wc01