Hello!

Tuesday, July 29, 2003 by adni18 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

WinCustomize is a great school!
Even if the majority of members here are not children any more( they still have a lot to learn!
I have learn a lot of things for 2 years now, thanks to you, thanks to positive or negative comments to authors and of course, thanks to messageboard arguments, they were all very useful, for one who likes to learn!
I must say there is a quallity in WinCustomize MessageBoard, you can't find very easy in a public MB.
There are some exceptions though, from some persons, but that's life, in any activity of life there are always some bad exceptions.

You may ask why I am writing all this now, because I have spend too many hours to read some long threads in the messageboard those last couple days, (you know the language problem for the foreigners) and I want to share my thoughts about what I have read with you.

Some really nice people, both sides, they have lost control when they have try to express their thoughts, both ways.
No harm is made, both sides they have understand well what is going on and they have turn down their tones.
I hope and I wish the tones remain like this.

Why all this happening, this is the important question!
I can tell you my opinion, it is the only thing I have to offer you about this problem.


Reason 1:
In the messageboard, there are some people who like to make fun to others, no matter if their fun hurts the others or they want to be accepted as clever or perfect ones. This gives a wrong and bad impression to many people who may think that this is WC.
(By the way, we must not forget that this is an Intenational site and not all are knowing the English language well, so this may be another reason of missunderstanding and wrong conclusions).

Solution to Reason 1:
The admins who are in general nice persons, (nobody wants to have an admin in his site who sending away the people), when the see a post that it is not well-meaning or it looks like an offence to another person, they must interact with good words and try to make them understand that this is not an acceptable post for a quality MB, even if they find it that it is correct or fun for them, but offensive for another person.
In that way those x persons they will learn to behave them selves and be nice for everyone and the offended ones will feel that at least they are among friendly people and mates.
We are a community, we must help each other.


Reason 2:
Some persons, are giving bad rattings not only for the quallity of a work, but also for who the artist is and this is some times not fair at all, this is for the bad and the good rates too, so the artists, who are always very sensitive, (how can any one be an artist
without sensitivity?), are geting hurt in a certain away.

Solution to the Reason 2:
The ratting system is very good for the admins and their friends, they are happy to see their high rates, so they find no reason to change it. I don't mean here that they don't deserve high rattings because they do, but this is not the point.
The point is, that very few are giving rates and the ratting system rules in WC, this doesn't happen in any other site, there are rates, but not so crucial as here. Some works disappear because of one bad rate which has been given for personal or taste reasons!
The solution is obvious.



Reason 3:
The moderation of wallpapers. I know and you know very well all the story, no need to repeat it here.

Solution to the Reason 3:
Make a new section for the wallpapers, a second one and put there all the wallpapers and let people deside which of them are going to be in the main Wallpaper section. A certain number of downloads will make a wallpaper jumb to the main Wallpapers section, please no rattings. If people like something let them have it!
A decent name for this second walls section must not have in any way an offensive name.
A slogan like:
"We are not moderating your wallpapers, we let you
decide
" is very friendly and no one can complain and give a headache to moderators.

This site is for the people and from the people!

(I know that Stardock pays for the site )

Wow! Did I wrote so many in English?
Yes I did, because I care!

Please, don't shoot the piano man!
First Previous Page 3 of 9 Next Last
Jafo
Reply #41 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:11 PM
Event.....'permanently'.... Spell checker
aufisch
Reply #42 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:44 PM
How about having the initial admin rating which would determine whether a wall/skin is visible or not and then in addition a second user rating which would show up on the skin, but would not influence whether the wall/skin is visible or not?
If a wall/skin then gets a real good public rating the admins could review it and improve its rating if needed??

As it is at the moment I do not dare to rate because I believe as a non artist I do not have the right to influence whether a piece of work (and I believe every artist is proud of its work) is shown to the general public or not. I really think this is for the moderators to decide who have years of experience.
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #43 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:46 PM
My only gripe(today) is the ratings system as it stands now is inherently flawed.It only takes one angry ,disgruntled or just plain mean yahoo to change a works visibility.If a work isnt deemed good enough to show the public,why is it even allowed on the site?
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #44 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:50 PM
I'm sorry...those numbers I posted about 5000 = a 5 were silly .That would only apply to overall dl's.which I think can still be manipulated.I have no idea what constitutes a decent logged on member dl count.
Frogboy
Reply #45 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:55 PM

IR: That's my problem with the rating system too. Right now, one mean person can mess it up.

You have to have a rating system. Getting rid of it isn't an option. Ultimately, this site exists not just for skinners but for users too and without the rating system it becomes too hard for the casual user to just browse through stuff.

Ratings are a part of life. Our software gets unfairly attacked all the time on Download.com. Our programs almost never have above a 7/10 as a result of a handful of people (usually Mac fanatics or Style XP advocates sabotaging them).  But ratings still are important even then.

What people want, ideally, is a rating system that is fair.

I'd be good with a rating system in which only admins/moderators can rate. These are skinners, they are fair, and we can see what each other rates something which helps prevent abuse.

I have seen cases of where even fairly high level people have run around sabotaging the ratings of their peers (you know who you are) but that's fairly rare.

Anyway, whatever rating system we can agree on could be implemented fairly easy. My vote would be that only moderators can rate themes and skins.

I.R. Brainiac
Reply #46 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:05 PM
I could live with that.
MadIce
Reply #47 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:18 PM
This is all very well, but there is a question I would like to see answered too.

Is it possible that when we decide upon any fantastic solutions that the war will stop?

If we don't agree upon that and we keep fighting later on then a solution doesn't have an effect.

And how about GreenArmani? It would be great if he had a voice again. He doesn't need to come back. Maybe he never will. Let him decide. But if we take away the voice of one disgrunted member then changes are we never succeed.

[Message Edited]
MadIce
Reply #48 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:20 PM
Geez. And I want a spell checker and an automatic grammar editor.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #49 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:51 PM
Here's a suggestion for the walls which I made in the other thread:

How about having them completely un-moderated but with a limited life? Say, a wall gets 1000 downloads in a month or it's zapped. That way the walls which are most appreciated by the people who use them remain on the site and the rest get binned.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #50 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:56 PM
I mentioned several weeks (or months) ago how I apply ratings. I do this regardless of who the author is.

0 to 3 marks for appearence
0 to 3 marks for useability
0 to 3 marks for skill level
1 mark for something extra-ordinary (very rarely used) assuming the work has already achieved a maximum 9 marks.

I find this enables me to keep a level head when rating someone's work.
[Message Edited]
elvee
Reply #51 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:08 PM
I think thats a pretty good system to use Fuzzy



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SuperheroCanadian
Reply #52 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 9:26 PM
SuperheroCanadian bows to nikos

i dont care for the ratings system too much, but hey thats my opinion, im gonna live with it

Lots of very civilized conversation going on here, im surprised my impression as of lately is that many ratings are getting bashed i dont know by who but they seem to be.

MadIce
Reply #53 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 9:54 PM
You have to have a rating system. Getting rid of it isn't an option. Ultimately, this site exists not just for skinners but for users too and without the rating system it becomes too hard for the casual user to just browse through stuff.

No. You don't have to have a rating system to make browsing easier. There are alternatives.

The only option that is removed is the rating. Which leaves us:
1) Author.
2) Created.
3) Updated.
4) Downloads overall.
5) Downloads today.
6) Skin Name.

Some skins (like WB or DX) may have problems with the rating afterall. A skin/theme that was rated a 10 in 2000 does not support the latest features, but still will be presented to the user. Of course the same is true for all other categories.

Other skins that are version independent or wallpapers do not have that problem. The "Download overall" will easily replace the rating.

What to do about the WB/DX problem? Lets take WB as an example. There are already checkboxes like:
- WinXP Support
- ShellStyles Support
- UIS1 Support
- WebBlinds Support
We need an extra option like
- WB 4.x Support.
That option is enabled by default. What will happen is that only the latest skins will be shown. This is a much more effective filter than any rating system can ever provide. Older skins will not show up unless you untag the WB 4.x Support check box.

A similar option can be made for other apps.

So, there is absolutely no need for a rating system.

[Message Edited]
adni18
Reply #54 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:01 PM
Listen to MadIce!
goodmorphing
Reply #55 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:05 PM
goodmorphing waves at Nikos.
MadIce
Reply #56 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:28 PM
How about a quality control. That is what we didn't cover yet. We want new users only to see the best skins! The problem with my earlier system is quality control.

How about having a thumb up or a thumb down as a rating.

When 50% or more of the votes has a thumb up then the skin is shown. Initially it is hidden.

In the old system the following rating of 3 people could make the skin disappear:
9+9+1=19, 19/3=6, 6=hide.
But when 1=thumbs up and 0=thumbs down then:
1+1+0=66%, 66%=show.
To hide it one needs at least 2 more votes.
1+1+0+0+0=40%, 40%=hide.
It is now harder for individuals to give a malicious vote.
SuperheroCanadian
Reply #57 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:34 PM
i like this idea alot, should do everything it needs to while keeping the current structure intact of public see no see quality control. keeps people happy as u only can get 2 different ratings show to the public no show to the public, thats how i see it rather that it sucks or doesnt suck.
c242
Reply #58 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:49 AM
I am all for it and quick before we see more 'My Babe' wallpapers here...



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adni18
Reply #59 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:17 AM
What about this option:

1) Author.
2) Created.
3) Updated.
4) Downloads overall.
5) Downloads today.
6) Skin Name.
7) Admins choice

and no rattings, only a certain number of downloads will make a wallpaper jumb to the main Wallpapers section.


Please don't forget that some works disappear because of one bad rate which has been given for personal or taste reasons and this is not fair at all.

I am not telling you what to do, I just want to help, because you have ask, that's all. The choice is yours any way.
sig101
Reply #60 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:19 AM
Heh, I saw the Freudian veggies wall. Heh, heh, heh.



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