Hello!
Tuesday, July 29, 2003 by adni18 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Even if the majority of members here are not children any more(
they still have a lot to learn!I have learn a lot of things for 2 years now, thanks to you, thanks to positive or negative comments to authors and of course, thanks to messageboard arguments, they were all very useful, for one who likes to learn!
I must say there is a quallity in WinCustomize MessageBoard, you can't find very easy in a public MB.
There are some exceptions though, from some persons, but that's life, in any activity of life there are always some bad exceptions.
You may ask why I am writing all this now, because I have spend too many hours to read some long threads in the messageboard those last couple days, (you know the language problem for the foreigners) and I want to share my thoughts about what I have read with you.
Some really nice people, both sides, they have lost control when they have try to express their thoughts, both ways.
No harm is made, both sides they have understand well what is going on and they have turn down their tones.
I hope and I wish the tones remain like this.
Why all this happening, this is the important question!
I can tell you my opinion, it is the only thing I have to offer you about this problem.
Reason 1:
In the messageboard, there are some people who like to make fun to others, no matter if their fun hurts the others or they want to be accepted as clever or perfect ones. This gives a wrong and bad impression to many people who may think that this is WC.
(By the way, we must not forget that this is an Intenational site and not all are knowing the English language well, so this may be another reason of missunderstanding and wrong conclusions).
Solution to Reason 1:
The admins who are in general nice persons, (nobody wants to have an admin in his site who sending away the people), when the see a post that it is not well-meaning or it looks like an offence to another person, they must interact with good words and try to make them understand that this is not an acceptable post for a quality MB, even if they find it that it is correct or fun for them, but offensive for another person.
In that way those x persons they will learn to behave them selves and be nice for everyone and the offended ones will feel that at least they are among friendly people and mates.
We are a community, we must help each other.
Reason 2:
Some persons, are giving bad rattings not only for the quallity of a work, but also for who the artist is and this is some times not fair at all, this is for the bad and the good rates too, so the artists, who are always very sensitive, (how can any one be an artist
without sensitivity?), are geting hurt in a certain away.
Solution to the Reason 2:
The ratting system is very good for the admins and their friends, they are happy to see their high rates, so they find no reason to change it. I don't mean here that they don't deserve high rattings because they do, but this is not the point.
The point is, that very few are giving rates and the ratting system rules in WC, this doesn't happen in any other site, there are rates, but not so crucial as here. Some works disappear because of one bad rate which has been given for personal or taste reasons!
The solution is obvious.
Reason 3:
The moderation of wallpapers. I know and you know very well all the story, no need to repeat it here.
Solution to the Reason 3:
Make a new section for the wallpapers, a second one and put there all the wallpapers and let people deside which of them are going to be in the main Wallpaper section. A certain number of downloads will make a wallpaper jumb to the main Wallpapers section, please no rattings. If people like something let them have it!
A decent name for this second walls section must not have in any way an offensive name.
A slogan like:
"We are not moderating your wallpapers, we let you
decide" is very friendly and no one can complain and give a headache to moderators.
This site is for the people and from the people!
(I know that Stardock pays for the site
)Wow! Did I wrote so many in English?
Yes I did, because I care!

Please, don't shoot the piano man!
Reply #22 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:58 PM

Reply #23 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:04 PM
Reply #24 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:05 PM
.Imagine the ratings wars,the ratings truces,the broken ratings truces,but at least they might be more honest in there appraisal if they had to back up their reasons.You might not agree with them but you would at least know why they hated (or liked )something.I doubt they will go with that one. 
Reply #25 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:11 PM
1. Only admins rate on a numbered scale, and that remains final and anonymous unconditionally with absolutely no questionas asked deal with it! 2. Everyone else, from citizens through Journeymen give a like, dislike, love vote or whatever and the number of those are displayed. Ex. Admin Rating 8 Download count 2000 10 users love it 35 like it 7 dislike it? Maybe that's a little like deviant but it's my suggestion. 
Reply #26 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:16 PM
Reply #27 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:20 PM
I don't have a head count, but I don't think there are that many journeymen. I can just hear the screams now about "the concentration of power"
Reply #28 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:20 PM
Reply #29 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:27 PM
I'm all for quality over quantity in every library, that's just me though 
Reply #31 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:41 PM

But I think giving rating privileges to people that have been around long enough to be reasonable in they way a design is rated should be the ones rating anything.
Adni does come up with some very good suggestions to solve some of the most debatable issues here.
BTW, Nice to read you again Nikos.
Reply #32 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:47 PM
But one should never time themselves and even the very best make mistakes or overlook something. It's also impossible to test for everything and often different systems show problems the author is unaware of and\or can't reproduce themselves. If I had a submission that was sent back with a reason for improvement I'd be thankful. That's just me though and it brings up the hatemail issue too. 
Reply #33 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:53 PM
| I wish it only took a week for me to make a WB. |
Same here.

I like the idea of the two wallpaper sections as an alternative to the ratings.
Lets say that if after 1 month, a submission hasnt gotten 800 downloads...It is done away with automatically. (Permantly deleted from the (proposed) temporary submissions library) If the submission DOES get more than say 800 d'loads after one month...It moves on to the other wall section permantly. That way, the new submissions section would never have walls older than 1 month, would not have low-quality walls for more than 1 month, and, would not take up very much space.

Reply #34 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:53 PM
Reply #36 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:01 PM

Reply #38 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:03 PM
Some people's only reason for being is to 'bitch and moan'....simply because they can.
Essentially any permutation of rating system, including not having one at all will be grounds for complaint....strangely probably from the same quarter, no matter what path is followed.
In truth, most of this boils down to a hatred for loss of 'exposure', nothing more, nothing less. Wincustomize.com's global popularity means that anything that may be seen/hosted publicly on the site will be seen/downloaded by very many people, more so than any other potential outlet.
People will rebel or rile against any 'potential' for the 'concealment' of their '15 minutes of fame', whether by peer-imposed gradation [ratings] and/or by Admin 'moderation'.
Now the tricky part of the equation is when you come to realise that this very 'concealment' or imposed filtering could actually be the cause of the site's public popularity.
Then you go on to consider that were the ratings and/or moderation removed, yes, your personal work/s may all be displayed in all their disparate glory, but, perhaps to fewer visitors as the site's appealing content is perhaps diluted with a flood of [for want of a better word] mediocrity.....a case of 'wow, now all my stuff can be seen by all....but where did they 'all' go?'.
Solution/s?
Maybe it is time that ONLY peers were entitled to rate works...maybe only with comment. I was never overly thrilled by the capacity to 'buy' voting privileges, and would rather see it through community advancement/promotion, or at least qualification through portfolio...to also be a skinner/artist. Of course this option will not be liked by many, either.
Some form of 'filter' is needed in order to maintain the site's success/popularity with the public end of our community - the user.
Sure, whatever is chosen will annoy/hurt one artist/contributor or another....fact of life...but be absolutely clear about this, the ultimate methodology is NOT aimed at YOU personally...it is not a personal attack on WHY OH EWE. It is/will be a reasoned and debated solution that pleases 'most'.
Ratings...
WHEN people 'grow up' and treat their use maturely and fairly they work quite well.
Sure there were people who rated their own works [10's, naturally]
Sure people were recruited by others to inflate ratings.
Sure vindictive attacks were made against others through ratings.
None of these is a reason to remove the ratings...only the people posting them, and they know who they are.
Admins/moderators can see these 'trends' and respond appropriately.
Moderation...
Either that is 'strict' as it was, or 'less strict' as it has become, the latter relying on the ratings to filter to the public. Frogboy for one has been accepting walls at a lower rating which at least may improve diversity and does give the rating public the chance to also critique and perhaps improve the rating, [or not].
I tend to prefer a voting by thumbs...too many pointing down and it won't make it at all.
IF we had a genuinely dedicated band of critics-for-selection [as we do with the moderators now] who come from the non-admin 'sector', who decide what comes and goes then just maybe their 'public' face will be more universally accepted...though somehow I think it's just displacing the butt of vitriol and complaint from the current bunch to a new one...though spreading the 'hurt/hate' might be a plus...
OK, so all this is 'PC' [pre coffee] so I'm sure more noses will now be out of joint...but hopefully some will see that those invested with looking after the site and its community DO care, and though it's not always thrashed around on the public board we are all looking at/for solutions....
Reply #40 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:05 PM
| Lets say that if after 1 month, a submission hasnt gotten 800 downloads...It is done away with automatically. (Permantly deleted from the (proposed) temporary submissions library) If the submission DOES get more than say 800 d'loads after one month...It moves on to the other wall section permantly. That way, the new submissions section would never have walls older than 1 month, would not have low-quality walls for more than 1 month, and, would not take up very much space. |
Forgot to add...
If you submission does happen to get deleted, it would be accessible only by clicking on your SN and going to Authors Skins.

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Reply #21 Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:43 PM
1) Keep the rating systems like it is.
2) Connect ratings to comments.
3) Only journeymen can rate anonymously.
4) Only journeymen can rate with a comment.
5) Remove the rating system.
6) I don't know or care.
Pfff. T-man said that 6 is the maximum in a poll. Now let's hope someone else doesn't come with a #7.