Skin Rating Solution
Tuesday, July 22, 2003 by SelfExiled | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
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Reply #22 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 5:55 AM
The way ratings actually work isn't even important. That's why Frogboys asks his question in post #1.
If I see a word like "political" then one can either ignore this like DavidK is doing in post #16 or one can use Jafo's method in post #7 and try to defend the honesty of admins for the millionth time.
Or you can use my method and laugh about the "politics".
Becoming angry about it doesn't help. Next week we see another thread like this. Because nobody is ever satisfied. Even if ratings are removed someone will start a thread why there aren't ratings.
Adni, of course you know better than anyone else that there are no politics in moderation, no hidden agendas and no conspiracies against skinners. You have been in these discussions before.
Reply #23 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 6:39 AM
Reply #25 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:51 AM
"Adni, of course you know better than anyone else that there are no politics in moderation, no hidden agendas and no conspiracies against skinners. You have been in these discussions before".
Oh yes Matthijs, I maybe know better than anyone some things, but not the ones you have mention.
And yes, I have seen this movie before and now that I am thinking about it, I didn't like it at all
But I still care about WC and love the majority of WC community
Reply #26 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 8:43 AM
It's true that moderators are the safest way to have your work rated. User ratings often are nothing more than a friend trying to make you feel good or an enemy trying to make you feel bad. If someone gets mad at you they'll give you a 1 to drag down your score, likewise, your buddy will give you a 10 to show he's your buddy. Moderators don't do these things, they rate your work in a consistent manner using criteria that makes the consistency of the ratings more meaningful.
It seems like whenever there's ratings discussion it comes from one of two places. One is someone gets rated low after their piece has been up for awhile and they're angry because someone sabotaged their rating so they want ratings abolished (or they just want to talk about it hoping that will make people less likely to do it to others). The best way to deal with this is to contact an admin, not post a message board thread because of the unfortunate tendency for so many members to jump in with their own motives either to slam the poor poster or start their own tirade against the site.
Which brings us to the other reason, ego. The other most common thread on ratings is anger because someone got a low rating and they want a higher one. If you look at their work and compare with other pieces you'll almost always see their rating was fair, consistent with other pieces that are of similar quality. But these people will start an argument that ratings are political, moderators are in a conspiracy, or various other ridiculous claims because they want a high rating to boast about to their friends even though their work doesn't deserve it. These people try to gather anyone who has a complaint about the site to join them in their cause. These arguments are the worst as they degenerate into insults and foolish demands that when not met are 'proof' that the site is unresponsive to users or 'elitist'.
With all the tempers and emotions flying around here on a daily basis, I don't see any alternative to having moderators making the ratings. Users often have their own agenda, moderators rate the same way for everyone. You can make an argument that moderators are just users that have been given a title but speaking for the group, we take the title seriously. The crew of moderators here were hand picked over the years because of their art backgrounds and experience in skinning or the community and for their maturity and even-temperedness. We're far from perfect but it could be a lot worse.
What I would like to see change is the immediate preconceptions that surface every time someone starts a conversation about ratings or any other once-controversial subject. I think it's true that people trying to bring up a subject get attacked or ridiculed on the message board and it seems like there's no open debate possible on a few subjects. That bothers me. Often I'll see a comment start with what I think are good intentions and the next ten responses are just insults or flames because it was assumed the commenter had some previously identified agenda. Let people speak their mind without jumping to conclusions.
Reply #27 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 8:55 AM
Reply #28 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:48 PM
| #1 by Scribe Frogboy - 7/22/2003 7:46:02 PM Do you know how the current system works? |
| Do you |
I notice you didn't explain it to him.
| #2 by China - 7/22/2003 7:50:24 PM I'm guessing not. |
Ditto:
| ChasUGC has make a suggestion with good will, it is obvious that he doesn't know exactly all the facts, but as he said "Make fun of people who propose an idea" is not a good idea! |
What Adni said!
humm, I wonder if the CEO of say ..McDonalds would have responded to a customer the way Frogboy did?
It reminds me of a parody you might see on Saturday Night Live or Mad TV.
McDonalds has a good product but if their service was insensitive.. would they be as big as they are?
Time for me to go and ponder these and others unanswered questions of life.
Reply #29 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 3:33 PM
Now you know why I say this:
Authoriyy sucks! Down with them!
Absolute power corrupts everything!
Reply #31 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 3:45 PM
Kona....get it right....
Power corrupts.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
[That's how it goes]....
Reply #32 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 3:49 PM
Reply #33 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 3:49 PM
Rage Against the Machine!
Reply #34 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 3:56 PM
| #28 by Citizen hashonboat - 7/23/2003 1:48:58 PM I wonder if the CEO of say ..McDonalds would have responded to a customer the way Frogboy did? McDonalds has a good product but if their service was insensitive.. would they be as big as they are?Time for me to go and ponder these and others unanswered questions of life. |
McDonalds? Well my first question to you is when the last time you ate at McDonalds. You are lucky you are not deceased because that is a place with no quality control …9 times out of ten your food will have some type of human fluids in it roach parts, rat hairs, and a various assortment of other wonderful things not to mention how unhealthy those processed fatty foods are to begin with. I would say to you consider what type of garbage you are shoveling into your face before you start worrying about the ratings of wallpapers or before you start critiquing people that mean you no harm… O no my friend concern yourself with, and address your dietary crisis first.
Reply #35 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 3:58 PM
Reply #36 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:05 PM
Reply #37 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:24 PM
Reply #38 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 6:59 PM
First of all, I will squash one attempt to slam me by saying that I am complaining because I got a low rating. I am not complaining because I got a low rating. I get very nice and fair ratings on most of my pieces. The reason I started this thread is because I too have seen unfair ratings and many fellow artists are hurting behind them. When I see admins like Jafo, making fun of artists concerns, it really makes me question his personal problems or personal agendas or his "politics" behind rating a skin. And, I begin to wonder if his "politics" are effecting the community in a negative way.
I do agree with one of the non-flaming responses by Jafo. I do agree that there are "politics" in the community as well, and that is a good point. When I say the term "Politics", some people want to pretend that it is some dreadful thing that is not happening here, and that I am some ignorant person spewing negativity. But, some people realize that this is not the case. I am just concerned for the feelings and fairness towards all my fellow artists.
Politics as Jafo said, are part of the community and part of the admins reaction as well. When a member of the community rates a skin for his friend high, and someone he doesn't like low, that too is politics.
Just like when an admin rates a skin based on his own personal skinning ability or his own personal feeling about a piece of work. Or, when a admin rates a skin by a long time submitter high and similar works lower. This is similar to a art critic rating a work low when the public might actually love it. I have heard of critics of Mozart and Michealangelo being given terrible reviews.
Therefore, it is difficult to rid this community of Politics by Jafo's own admission. He admits that admins and community members participate in this unfair endeavor. And, like DavidK said, I agree that ratings are probably necessary and his reasons were very well taken and read. Thank all of those who have participated in this thread with constructive responses to an issue that concerns many members. I felt it was neccessary to bring it to the table. To those with unconstructive, slamming, and ridiculing responses, I won't dignify them with a reply. And, it is clear that these type of people really hurt an artistic community and the reason it was neccessary to start such a thread as this one. I don't feel it is neccessary to name them, but you know who you are, we know who you are, and you are hurting a very nice artistic community. It is just sad when an administrator has basically become one of them and they rate skins. But, you know who you are, and we know who you are too.
Reply #39 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:04 PM
Reply #40 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:05 PM
| THAT took guts to say chase but be careful you might end up a visitor or exilied because what you said or gonna say is not what "they" want to hear.... |
And that is another reason I keep my mounth shut in front of authority... We are not free to write or bring up just anything here unless they will it most times...
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Reply #21 Wednesday, July 23, 2003 2:23 AM