Donations
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 by grayhaze | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Upon release of my metalX2 and dinksDX skins, I decided to try a little experiment to see just how willing the general user would be to voluntarily pay a small amount of money in appreciation of the work that went into the skin, and to support future development.
Despite clocking up over 25,000 downloads so far on those skins, I haven't received a single donation. I can't say I'm too surprised because I never believed for one moment that I'd make any real money out of it, but I never for one moment thought that I wouldn't make a single penny!
I'm not telling you this because I'm upset about the lack of donations, or to make anyone feel guilty. I'm telling fellow skinners in case they consider doing a similar thing with their own skins in the future. It's just not worth the effort to set it up.
I find it remarkable that when a discussion about commercial skins comes up you get a multitude of comments about how someone just bought the skin to show their appreciation of the artist's work, even if they didn't particularly like the skin. You also get the people bemoaning the fact that someone dares to request money before they are able to use a skin. Surely the concept of voluntary donations should satisfy both of those crowds, and should at least meet with a limited amount of success?
I'm therefore considering never releasing a free skin again. I may get a lot of people complaining about having to pay for a skin, but at the same time I can at least be relatively confident that I'll get one or two buyers at the same time.
Although I enjoy skinning, I'm perfectly willing to be honest and admit that a lot of what I do is for public recognition, and in the hopes that it may lead on to bigger and better things. As an unemployed graphic designer (something which is becoming increasingly common in this country), I would like to think that someone out there will someday download one of my skins and think it's good enough to offer me some work.
I do create skins for myself, but in all honesty if I only did it for myself I wouldn't spend the amount of time I do on an individual skin. I wouldn't mind the occasional glitch here and there, just so long as it serves its purpose and gives me pleasure. I spend the extra time on my skins for both the reasons mentioned above, and because I want to give the users of my skins the best they could possibly hope for. I listen to comments and try to mold the skin into something the users want, even if that conflicts with my own tastes or needs.
Anyway, after the next update to dinksDX and metalX2, you'll be unlikely to see much in the way of free skins coming from my computer. I'd be interested to know if there are others out there who feel the way I do.
Despite clocking up over 25,000 downloads so far on those skins, I haven't received a single donation. I can't say I'm too surprised because I never believed for one moment that I'd make any real money out of it, but I never for one moment thought that I wouldn't make a single penny!
I'm not telling you this because I'm upset about the lack of donations, or to make anyone feel guilty. I'm telling fellow skinners in case they consider doing a similar thing with their own skins in the future. It's just not worth the effort to set it up.
I find it remarkable that when a discussion about commercial skins comes up you get a multitude of comments about how someone just bought the skin to show their appreciation of the artist's work, even if they didn't particularly like the skin. You also get the people bemoaning the fact that someone dares to request money before they are able to use a skin. Surely the concept of voluntary donations should satisfy both of those crowds, and should at least meet with a limited amount of success?
I'm therefore considering never releasing a free skin again. I may get a lot of people complaining about having to pay for a skin, but at the same time I can at least be relatively confident that I'll get one or two buyers at the same time.
Although I enjoy skinning, I'm perfectly willing to be honest and admit that a lot of what I do is for public recognition, and in the hopes that it may lead on to bigger and better things. As an unemployed graphic designer (something which is becoming increasingly common in this country), I would like to think that someone out there will someday download one of my skins and think it's good enough to offer me some work.
I do create skins for myself, but in all honesty if I only did it for myself I wouldn't spend the amount of time I do on an individual skin. I wouldn't mind the occasional glitch here and there, just so long as it serves its purpose and gives me pleasure. I spend the extra time on my skins for both the reasons mentioned above, and because I want to give the users of my skins the best they could possibly hope for. I listen to comments and try to mold the skin into something the users want, even if that conflicts with my own tastes or needs.
Anyway, after the next update to dinksDX and metalX2, you'll be unlikely to see much in the way of free skins coming from my computer. I'd be interested to know if there are others out there who feel the way I do.
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Stumpy
Reply #42 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 3:02 AM
Reply #42 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 3:02 AM
I actually purchase what I think I need and what I think I will use constantly, as for skins I have very few and tend to use 1 or 2 more than the others which eventually are deleted, I think that if a program or skin is worth using a donation will be made, IE Programs = Mailwahser - AVG Anti-Virus - Outpost Firewall - Microangelo ( All have been donated to or purchased). Skins = Beacon - nVidia - Cartoon - Dinks - Flutterby - XP Jeans. all these are constantly on my machine (I would like to make donations but very few are setup for it) other skins just come and go after about an hour, Sorry but I don't think I have any of yours. 
Keila: If I owned or ran a Graphics Design company, you would be one of my designers
Keila: If I owned or ran a Graphics Design company, you would be one of my designers
Jafo
Reply #43 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 4:54 AM
Reply #43 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 4:54 AM
Kevin....perhaps your best solution would be to continue with the freebies, but when a particularly 'groovy' one comes along make it 'purchase only'....the freebies get whet the interest....the 'exclusive' ones get the dosh.....
XX
Reply #45 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 6:40 AM
Reply #45 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 6:40 AM
hmm thats great idea. freebies makes author known, and few exclusives to pay for the rest
me, for one loves your dinky blue simple 98 ( slightly modified but all gfx is unmodded ). but i dont own any credit card and am unlikely to have one for some time.
Hmm i recall the saying, "The honey will attract more flies than vingear". you could get more flies ( money ) by honey ( amazing exclusives ) than vingear ( this thread )
Me, for one never got any donations for any of xx programs. i'm not complaining however. altought i never actually asked for donations. ( No this isnt some kind of hidden request if you see it, see a doctor or get a good sleep lol ). I gonna say this before someone thinks of this argument, im a poor student barely getting by, not some rich guy.
Hey jafo, hows my spelling lol. i recall that when at old skinz days i was basically the worse speller or grammar there.
me, for one loves your dinky blue simple 98 ( slightly modified but all gfx is unmodded ). but i dont own any credit card and am unlikely to have one for some time.
Hmm i recall the saying, "The honey will attract more flies than vingear". you could get more flies ( money ) by honey ( amazing exclusives ) than vingear ( this thread )
Me, for one never got any donations for any of xx programs. i'm not complaining however. altought i never actually asked for donations. ( No this isnt some kind of hidden request if you see it, see a doctor or get a good sleep lol ). I gonna say this before someone thinks of this argument, im a poor student barely getting by, not some rich guy.
Hey jafo, hows my spelling lol. i recall that when at old skinz days i was basically the worse speller or grammar there.
Chef Garry
Reply #47 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 7:59 AM
Reply #47 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 7:59 AM
Greyhaze, I didn't even know about the paypal thing until this thread. I know you have a link to configuration information but I never bothered to go there. I like the MetalX skin a lot but haven't had the time to configure all the extras which frankly I won't use. Incredible work and I like the look, just not the extras.
Anyway, the reason for the lack of interest just may be people didn't know. I can't be the only total dunce here.
Anyway, the reason for the lack of interest just may be people didn't know. I can't be the only total dunce here.
IPlural
Reply #48 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:39 AM
plttttttttttthiT spelling
grayhaze, Jafo stated exactly what I was thinking but held up commenting upon.
Throw some ticklers out there and every now and then slip a commercial release in the works that really shines above the rest. As you build up a series make a pack and figure out the number in the pack against the individual pricing and give some sort of discount per skin/theme on the pack price if you like
ROlf personally I spell like crap and my sentence structure and grammar are so bad you would question if English is my first language
really really :/
Reply #48 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:39 AM
plttttttttttthiT spelling
grayhaze, Jafo stated exactly what I was thinking but held up commenting upon.
Throw some ticklers out there and every now and then slip a commercial release in the works that really shines above the rest. As you build up a series make a pack and figure out the number in the pack against the individual pricing and give some sort of discount per skin/theme on the pack price if you like
ROlf personally I spell like crap and my sentence structure and grammar are so bad you would question if English is my first language
really really :/
grayhaze
Reply #49 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:01 AM
Reply #49 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:01 AM
Stumpy >> If you're not aware that one of the skins you listed is one of mine, then there's no hope...
Mr XX >> As I've already made very clear, this thread wasn't intended as a poorly-disguised 'begging letter'. I just wanted to share my experience with other skinners who might consider doing the same thing, and to get some opinions from people on why someone is more inclined to pay for a skin when forced to do so, than if the request is a polite one for a voluntary donation.
As for all those suggesting making a lot of free skins and the occasional commercial one, it's just not that simple for me. With every skin I make, I try to make it better than the last, and as such my skins tend to take a lot longer to produce than average. If I were to produce a volume of lower-quality free skins, I'd just feel bad doing so. I'd feel like I was cheating myself, as well as the people who download my skins.
I honestly think that the only way to go is to produce only commercial skins, and forget about the freebies. This will almost certainly generate hostility toward my methods from those who expect everything to be free in life, but it should at least cover some of the costs involved in the production.
grayhaze tries to find some industrial-strength staples
Mr XX >> As I've already made very clear, this thread wasn't intended as a poorly-disguised 'begging letter'. I just wanted to share my experience with other skinners who might consider doing the same thing, and to get some opinions from people on why someone is more inclined to pay for a skin when forced to do so, than if the request is a polite one for a voluntary donation.
As for all those suggesting making a lot of free skins and the occasional commercial one, it's just not that simple for me. With every skin I make, I try to make it better than the last, and as such my skins tend to take a lot longer to produce than average. If I were to produce a volume of lower-quality free skins, I'd just feel bad doing so. I'd feel like I was cheating myself, as well as the people who download my skins.
I honestly think that the only way to go is to produce only commercial skins, and forget about the freebies. This will almost certainly generate hostility toward my methods from those who expect everything to be free in life, but it should at least cover some of the costs involved in the production.
grayhaze tries to find some industrial-strength staples
Keila
Reply #50 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:27 AM
Reply #50 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:27 AM
WOW! Stumpy that is the most wonderful compliment I think i have ever received.
Stumpy
Reply #51 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:20 PM
Reply #51 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:20 PM
Sorry Grayhaze, yes you are correct I do have one of your skins in my samll collection, and very grateful for it to, but unfortunately I'm usin nVdia at the moment and Dinks has fallen by the wayside (But Kept), I would make a donation for it, as it is one of the very few really good ones, just point me in the right direction
grayhaze
Reply #52 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:39 PM
Reply #52 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:39 PM
Are you using the new dinksDX ( https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=1&SkinID=3331 ) or the original dinks ( https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=1&SkinID=2074 ) Stumpy?
Stumpy
Reply #53 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:01 PM
Reply #53 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:01 PM
I've got the new one Dinks Blue with various sub-skins
Stumpy
Reply #54 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:04 PM
Reply #54 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:04 PM
Sorry just checked it says DinksDX Blue, it's the one with the white menu backgrounds, I think it's the original, hard to tell
Michael Ficarra
Reply #55 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:22 PM
Reply #55 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:22 PM
Yeah, you have the new one, Stumpy. I LOVE the DinksDX Blue skin and would have gladly paid for it if I had to to get it. Most people like the MetalX skins, and I don't.
The question for you is, which skin will most people gladly pay for and which skin will just promote your name.
I think that's the hard part.
The question for you is, which skin will most people gladly pay for and which skin will just promote your name.
I think that's the hard part.
grayhaze
Reply #56 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:22 PM
Reply #56 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:22 PM
Well if you have dinksDX Blue, just check out the documentation at http://grayhaze.com/docs/dinksDX.htm for all the info you need.
grayhaze
Reply #58 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 3:20 PM
Reply #58 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 3:20 PM
I'm in the UK too Stumpy, so I know it's possible to use PayPal in this country. I seem to remember their sign-up is a little complicated if you don't read the fine print properly, but once you've worked out what you're doing it's a pretty smooth process.
Stumpy
Reply #59 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 3:30 PM
Reply #59 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 3:30 PM
Done, that was very anouying, I really dislike PayPal >
Anthony R
Reply #60 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 4:18 PM
Solution = Release a premium suite like those other guys here.
Oh woe is me ….
If you want my beer money…. it will take a lot of ingenuity…. It may require force, or significant threats of force
Reply #60 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 4:18 PM
| #41 by JourneyMan grayhaze - 7/16/2003 2:17:14 AM I'd say it's a pretty weak excuse. How many movies do you rent in a month? How many beers do you drink? |
Solution = Release a premium suite like those other guys here.
Oh woe is me ….
If you want my beer money…. it will take a lot of ingenuity…. It may require force, or significant threats of force
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Reply #41 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:17 AM
I said I wouldn't comment again.
grayhaze staples his lips together