Donations
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 by grayhaze | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Upon release of my metalX2 and dinksDX skins, I decided to try a little experiment to see just how willing the general user would be to voluntarily pay a small amount of money in appreciation of the work that went into the skin, and to support future development.
Despite clocking up over 25,000 downloads so far on those skins, I haven't received a single donation. I can't say I'm too surprised because I never believed for one moment that I'd make any real money out of it, but I never for one moment thought that I wouldn't make a single penny!
I'm not telling you this because I'm upset about the lack of donations, or to make anyone feel guilty. I'm telling fellow skinners in case they consider doing a similar thing with their own skins in the future. It's just not worth the effort to set it up.
I find it remarkable that when a discussion about commercial skins comes up you get a multitude of comments about how someone just bought the skin to show their appreciation of the artist's work, even if they didn't particularly like the skin. You also get the people bemoaning the fact that someone dares to request money before they are able to use a skin. Surely the concept of voluntary donations should satisfy both of those crowds, and should at least meet with a limited amount of success?
I'm therefore considering never releasing a free skin again. I may get a lot of people complaining about having to pay for a skin, but at the same time I can at least be relatively confident that I'll get one or two buyers at the same time.
Although I enjoy skinning, I'm perfectly willing to be honest and admit that a lot of what I do is for public recognition, and in the hopes that it may lead on to bigger and better things. As an unemployed graphic designer (something which is becoming increasingly common in this country), I would like to think that someone out there will someday download one of my skins and think it's good enough to offer me some work.
I do create skins for myself, but in all honesty if I only did it for myself I wouldn't spend the amount of time I do on an individual skin. I wouldn't mind the occasional glitch here and there, just so long as it serves its purpose and gives me pleasure. I spend the extra time on my skins for both the reasons mentioned above, and because I want to give the users of my skins the best they could possibly hope for. I listen to comments and try to mold the skin into something the users want, even if that conflicts with my own tastes or needs.
Anyway, after the next update to dinksDX and metalX2, you'll be unlikely to see much in the way of free skins coming from my computer. I'd be interested to know if there are others out there who feel the way I do.
Despite clocking up over 25,000 downloads so far on those skins, I haven't received a single donation. I can't say I'm too surprised because I never believed for one moment that I'd make any real money out of it, but I never for one moment thought that I wouldn't make a single penny!
I'm not telling you this because I'm upset about the lack of donations, or to make anyone feel guilty. I'm telling fellow skinners in case they consider doing a similar thing with their own skins in the future. It's just not worth the effort to set it up.
I find it remarkable that when a discussion about commercial skins comes up you get a multitude of comments about how someone just bought the skin to show their appreciation of the artist's work, even if they didn't particularly like the skin. You also get the people bemoaning the fact that someone dares to request money before they are able to use a skin. Surely the concept of voluntary donations should satisfy both of those crowds, and should at least meet with a limited amount of success?
I'm therefore considering never releasing a free skin again. I may get a lot of people complaining about having to pay for a skin, but at the same time I can at least be relatively confident that I'll get one or two buyers at the same time.
Although I enjoy skinning, I'm perfectly willing to be honest and admit that a lot of what I do is for public recognition, and in the hopes that it may lead on to bigger and better things. As an unemployed graphic designer (something which is becoming increasingly common in this country), I would like to think that someone out there will someday download one of my skins and think it's good enough to offer me some work.
I do create skins for myself, but in all honesty if I only did it for myself I wouldn't spend the amount of time I do on an individual skin. I wouldn't mind the occasional glitch here and there, just so long as it serves its purpose and gives me pleasure. I spend the extra time on my skins for both the reasons mentioned above, and because I want to give the users of my skins the best they could possibly hope for. I listen to comments and try to mold the skin into something the users want, even if that conflicts with my own tastes or needs.
Anyway, after the next update to dinksDX and metalX2, you'll be unlikely to see much in the way of free skins coming from my computer. I'd be interested to know if there are others out there who feel the way I do.
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mormegil
Reply #22 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 2:31 PM
Reply #22 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 2:31 PM
Hay Grey, did not even know that you were asking for donation. But your work is worth it. Keep it up and dont let all this get you down.
Tech-Cat
Reply #24 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 2:51 PM
Reply #24 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 2:51 PM
I prefer eye candy to get my high so I glady pay for professional well done eye candy.
Tech-Cat
Reply #27 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 2:55 PM
Reply #27 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 2:55 PM
I don't mean do drugs while looking at eye candy. I mean the eye candy itself gives me a high. It adds excitement to my otherwise boring desktop.
grayhaze
Reply #29 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 3:52 PM
Reply #29 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 3:52 PM
I'm aware that many people have a problem with PayPal, but from past experience I've always found them to be reliable. Short of paying for credit card processing myself, there's no easy solution other than PayPal though.
aufisch
Reply #30 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 4:36 PM
Reply #30 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 4:36 PM
I am a Wincustomize subscriber, I paid for Object Desktop and I have purchased two Pixtudio suites but I have never made a donation. Why, you ask?
Now there are different reasons:
1. I am a postgraduate student on a very limited scholarship
2. I am very naive, assuming that art published on Wincustomize is actually made by people who do skinning as a hobby rather than a using it as a source of income.
3. When I look at the seemingly "tight" skinner community at WC, I can't help but feeling guilty for not contributing. I am a scientist not an artist and although I tried myself of Photoshop, my work will never be good enough for publishing. Furthermore I have been working like a maniac for the last three years for an amount of money that does not even cover my cost of living, and I therefore really don't like certain comments along the line "you don't contribute, you don't donate therefore you have to be a p*@ck" that have become only too common on this site.
I can understand your situation grayhaze and it has certainly opened my eyes about the situation of some of the skinners at WC, but you also have to understand that a lot of the people that downloaded and appreciated your wonderful skin are no better off than you.
Now there are different reasons:
1. I am a postgraduate student on a very limited scholarship
2. I am very naive, assuming that art published on Wincustomize is actually made by people who do skinning as a hobby rather than a using it as a source of income.
3. When I look at the seemingly "tight" skinner community at WC, I can't help but feeling guilty for not contributing. I am a scientist not an artist and although I tried myself of Photoshop, my work will never be good enough for publishing. Furthermore I have been working like a maniac for the last three years for an amount of money that does not even cover my cost of living, and I therefore really don't like certain comments along the line "you don't contribute, you don't donate therefore you have to be a p*@ck" that have become only too common on this site.
I can understand your situation grayhaze and it has certainly opened my eyes about the situation of some of the skinners at WC, but you also have to understand that a lot of the people that downloaded and appreciated your wonderful skin are no better off than you.
grayhaze
Reply #31 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 4:53 PM
Reply #31 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 4:53 PM
Let me just get one thing straight. I don't see the donations principle as a source of income. If I really thought I could live off the money from donations on a couple of skins, then I'd only be deluding myself.
The whole idea is that skinning for someone in my position isn't a self-sustaining hobby. It costs a great deal of time and money, and that money has to come from somewhere. The way I see it there are four choices:
1. Sell skins to the seeming minority who agree with the concept. This might well produce slightly more money than donations, and will mean longer development times and hopefully the highest quality.
or
2. Request donations to help support the skinning process. This allows a lot more work to go into a particular skin, and goes toward improving past ones. The money generated is minimal.
or
3. Make poor quality skins and upload them despite not being completely happy with the final result. This would take a lot less time, although perhaps not less money.
or
4. Quit skinning entirely and find another hobby which doesn't take up so much time and money.
I think that the common view is that skinning is something quick and easy that anyone can do, and is along the same lines as just drawing a picture or writing a poem. Even the most basic skin takes much longer to put together properly than either of these activites, and yet it's seen as somewhat unreasonable when a skinner requests support from those who choose to use their work in the long term.
The whole idea is that skinning for someone in my position isn't a self-sustaining hobby. It costs a great deal of time and money, and that money has to come from somewhere. The way I see it there are four choices:
1. Sell skins to the seeming minority who agree with the concept. This might well produce slightly more money than donations, and will mean longer development times and hopefully the highest quality.
or
2. Request donations to help support the skinning process. This allows a lot more work to go into a particular skin, and goes toward improving past ones. The money generated is minimal.
or
3. Make poor quality skins and upload them despite not being completely happy with the final result. This would take a lot less time, although perhaps not less money.
or
4. Quit skinning entirely and find another hobby which doesn't take up so much time and money.
I think that the common view is that skinning is something quick and easy that anyone can do, and is along the same lines as just drawing a picture or writing a poem. Even the most basic skin takes much longer to put together properly than either of these activites, and yet it's seen as somewhat unreasonable when a skinner requests support from those who choose to use their work in the long term.
grayhaze
Reply #32 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 4:59 PM
Reply #32 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 4:59 PM
Anyway, this venting is really only counter-productive. It's clear that donations don't work, and that was really my only initial message. I won't keep repeating myself, so I'll try not to comment in this thread anymore.
To the one person who did see fit to embrace the donation principle, I'd like to thank you again. You know who you are, and should I get no other donations, I'll more than likely be sending the money back your way.
To the one person who did see fit to embrace the donation principle, I'd like to thank you again. You know who you are, and should I get no other donations, I'll more than likely be sending the money back your way.
kona0197
Reply #33 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 5:13 PM
Being in a different hobby, mountain biking, i understand you completely. Can anyone tell me why I spend over a grand on a bicyle and another 1500 on parts just to ride for 1 hour a week?
Reply #33 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 5:13 PM
| Quit skinning entirely and find another hobby which doesn't take up so much time and money. |
Being in a different hobby, mountain biking, i understand you completely. Can anyone tell me why I spend over a grand on a bicyle and another 1500 on parts just to ride for 1 hour a week?
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #34 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 5:19 PM
My bike cost £2000 and before my op I never used to do less than 60-100 miles xc per week. You shouldn't spend that amout of cash on a bike unless you intend to use it.
Reply #34 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 5:19 PM
My bike cost £2000 and before my op I never used to do less than 60-100 miles xc per week. You shouldn't spend that amout of cash on a bike unless you intend to use it.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #35 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 5:24 PM
Reply #35 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 5:24 PM
oops, that's bikejacking this thread. Let's have a biker's thread...
insekta
Reply #36 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 7:04 PM
Reply #36 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 7:04 PM
You must consider that this is the worst global economy since daddy bush, and while I usually have no qualms about donating a bit to those things I adore, I haven't had a job in a year and a half and just can't afford it. Maybe when things perk up a bit you should try again. I'm sure you'd get better results.
messybuu
Reply #37 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 8:44 PM
Reply #37 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 8:44 PM
Honestly, I didn't even know that you were asking for donations, but I do agree donations don't work, because only few of us will donate, and some of us don't know what's enough, which is why I personally like somebody else fixing the price tag for me, as long as they're reasonable about it.
Still, you really should advertise that you're accepting donations next time, because I'm sure that there are others out there who'll be happy to show their support to you.
Still, you really should advertise that you're accepting donations next time, because I'm sure that there are others out there who'll be happy to show their support to you.
brazil
Reply #38 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:22 PM
Reply #38 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:22 PM
Your right on target GH,,Hold your ground.The climate will slowly change as the great skins will be only an option to those who understand what went into making it and subscribe to your Site/Work.The day is coming sooner than we all think,,these things/skins,in particular Grays are incredible skinning work that deserves whatever you can afford.Maybe 5$,maybe nice comments on the site/with great ratings,maybe 10$.It really isn't that much scratch.Dig,,werd.
kona0197
Reply #39 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:00 PM
I have tried that but it dosen't go over to well...
Reply #39 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:00 PM
| oops, that's bikejacking this thread. Let's have a biker's thread... |
I have tried that but it dosen't go over to well...
Sugaree
Reply #40 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:10 PM
Reply #40 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:10 PM
Back a few years ago, My motto was...If I can ware it or eat it, I'm sure not gonna buy it.....
Then, I got a pc & now it's ....If I can't eat it or, It looks like crap on my pc...I'm sure not gonna buy it.
Then, I got a pc & now it's ....If I can't eat it or, It looks like crap on my pc...I'm sure not gonna buy it.
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Reply #21 Tuesday, July 15, 2003 2:20 PM