Linux
Sunday, July 6, 2003 by MadIce | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Lately I see some people trying to advocate Linux here. Interesting, but of little use on a Windows Customization site. A statement like "this works better on Linux" may or may not be true, but is annoying. You are of course free to have your own opnion, but I think it doesn't serve any purpose here.
MadIce predicts there is a 99% chance that this thread will end up in a discussion how great Linux or the Mac is.
Maybe it will attract the Linux and Mac advocates and cause the rest of the threads to be free from this nonsense.
MadIce predicts there is a 99% chance that this thread will end up in a discussion how great Linux or the Mac is.
Maybe it will attract the Linux and Mac advocates and cause the rest of the threads to be free from this nonsense.
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Doomgaze
Reply #42 Monday, July 7, 2003 2:15 PM
Reply #42 Monday, July 7, 2003 2:15 PM
No, actually, I can't say anything good about linux. GPL will always hinder it. The kernel change commits by one person will always hinder it. The inability for them to decide on common formats will probably be its ultimate demise.
There are too many factors between the different distros and groups in the linux movement who refuse to budge/compromise with one another that eventually they'll just kill themselves off.
While BSD has been around longer and continues to plod away at a steady pace of existance which those who use it, use it with love and care and are quite happy that they don't need to worry about the infighting of the linux groups ever happening within the BSD groups.
There are too many factors between the different distros and groups in the linux movement who refuse to budge/compromise with one another that eventually they'll just kill themselves off.
While BSD has been around longer and continues to plod away at a steady pace of existance which those who use it, use it with love and care and are quite happy that they don't need to worry about the infighting of the linux groups ever happening within the BSD groups.
jcg
Reply #43 Monday, July 7, 2003 2:29 PM
Reply #43 Monday, July 7, 2003 2:29 PM
My son, the programming savant, hates the linux, unix, etc. devotees. Some great lines of his: "Linux user = command line facist" or the other (my personal favorite) "Of course Linux is more stable than Windows, theres nothing to run on it."
sttroopers
Reply #45 Monday, July 7, 2003 2:33 PM
Reply #45 Monday, July 7, 2003 2:33 PM
For my last post here lemme tell you a story...
The analogy between cars and operating systems is not half bad, and so let me run with it for a moment, as a way of giving an executive summary of our situation today.
Imagine a crossroads where four competing auto dealerships are situated. One of them (Microsoft) is much, much bigger than the others. It started out years ago selling three-speed bicycles (MS-DOS); these were not perfect, but they worked, and when they broke you could easily fix them.
There was a competing bicycle dealership next door (Apple) that one day began selling motorized vehicles--expensive but attractively styled cars with their innards hermetically sealed, so that how they worked was something of a mystery.
The big dealership responded by rushing a moped upgrade kit (the original Windows) onto the market. This was a Rube Goldberg contraption that, when bolted onto a three-speed bicycle, enabled it to keep up, just barely, with Apple-cars. The users had to wear goggles and were always picking bugs out of their teeth while Apple owners sped along in hermetically sealed comfort, sneering out the windows. But the Micro-mopeds were cheap, and easy to fix compared with the Apple-cars, and their market share waxed.
Eventually the big dealership came out with a full-fledged car: a colossal station wagon (Windows 95). It had all the aesthetic appeal of a Soviet worker housing block, it leaked oil and blew gaskets, and it was an enormous success. A little later, they also came out with a hulking off-road vehicle intended for industrial users (Windows NT) which was no more beautiful than the station wagon, and only a little more reliable.
Since then there has been a lot of noise and shouting, but little has changed. The smaller dealership continues to sell sleek Euro-styled sedans and to spend a lot of money on advertising campaigns. They have had GOING OUT OF BUSINESS! signs taped up in their windows for so long that they have gotten all yellow and curly. The big one keeps making bigger and bigger station wagons and ORVs.
On the other side of the road are two competitors that have come along more recently.
One of them (Be, Inc.) is selling fully operational Batmobiles (the BeOS). They are more beautiful and stylish even than the Euro-sedans, better designed, more technologically advanced, and at least as reliable as anything else on the market--and yet cheaper than the others.
With one exception, that is: Linux, which is right next door, and which is not a business at all. It's a bunch of RVs, yurts, tepees, and geodesic domes set up in a field and organized by consensus. The people who live there are making tanks. These are not old-fashioned, cast-iron Soviet tanks; these are more like the M1 tanks of the U.S. Army, made of space-age materials and jammed with sophisticated technology from one end to the other. But they are better than Army tanks. They've been modified in such a way that they never, ever break down, are light and maneuverable enough to use on ordinary streets, and use no more fuel than a subcompact car. These tanks are being cranked out, on the spot, at a terrific pace, and a vast number of them are lined up along the edge of the road with keys in the ignition. Anyone who wants can simply climb into one and drive it away for free.
Customers come to this crossroads in throngs, day and night. Ninety percent of them go straight to the biggest dealership and buy station wagons or off-road vehicles. They do not even look at the other dealerships.
Of the remaining ten percent, most go and buy a sleek Euro-sedan, pausing only to turn up their noses at the philistines going to buy the station wagons and ORVs. If they even notice the people on the opposite side of the road, selling the cheaper, technically superior vehicles, these customers deride them cranks and half-wits.
The Batmobile outlet sells a few vehicles to the occasional car nut who wants a second vehicle to go with his station wagon, but seems to accept, at least for now, that it's a fringe player.
The group giving away the free tanks only stays alive because it is staffed by volunteers, who are lined up at the edge of the street with bullhorns, trying to draw customers' attention to this incredible situation. A typical conversation goes something like this:
Hacker with bullhorn: "Save your money! Accept one of our free tanks! It is invulnerable, and can drive across rocks and swamps at ninety miles an hour while getting a hundred miles to the gallon!"
Prospective station wagon buyer: "I know what you say is true...but...er...I don't know how to maintain a tank!"
Bullhorn: "You don't know how to maintain a station wagon either!"
Buyer: "But this dealership has mechanics on staff. If something goes wrong with my station wagon, I can take a day off work, bring it here, and pay them to work on it while I sit in the waiting room for hours, listening to elevator music."
Bullhorn: "But if you accept one of our free tanks we will send volunteers to your house to fix it for free while you sleep!"
Buyer: "Stay away from my house, you freak!"
Bullhorn: "But..."
Buyer: "Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"
I for one LOVE my BIG SHINY NEW TANK.
The analogy between cars and operating systems is not half bad, and so let me run with it for a moment, as a way of giving an executive summary of our situation today.
Imagine a crossroads where four competing auto dealerships are situated. One of them (Microsoft) is much, much bigger than the others. It started out years ago selling three-speed bicycles (MS-DOS); these were not perfect, but they worked, and when they broke you could easily fix them.
There was a competing bicycle dealership next door (Apple) that one day began selling motorized vehicles--expensive but attractively styled cars with their innards hermetically sealed, so that how they worked was something of a mystery.
The big dealership responded by rushing a moped upgrade kit (the original Windows) onto the market. This was a Rube Goldberg contraption that, when bolted onto a three-speed bicycle, enabled it to keep up, just barely, with Apple-cars. The users had to wear goggles and were always picking bugs out of their teeth while Apple owners sped along in hermetically sealed comfort, sneering out the windows. But the Micro-mopeds were cheap, and easy to fix compared with the Apple-cars, and their market share waxed.
Eventually the big dealership came out with a full-fledged car: a colossal station wagon (Windows 95). It had all the aesthetic appeal of a Soviet worker housing block, it leaked oil and blew gaskets, and it was an enormous success. A little later, they also came out with a hulking off-road vehicle intended for industrial users (Windows NT) which was no more beautiful than the station wagon, and only a little more reliable.
Since then there has been a lot of noise and shouting, but little has changed. The smaller dealership continues to sell sleek Euro-styled sedans and to spend a lot of money on advertising campaigns. They have had GOING OUT OF BUSINESS! signs taped up in their windows for so long that they have gotten all yellow and curly. The big one keeps making bigger and bigger station wagons and ORVs.
On the other side of the road are two competitors that have come along more recently.
One of them (Be, Inc.) is selling fully operational Batmobiles (the BeOS). They are more beautiful and stylish even than the Euro-sedans, better designed, more technologically advanced, and at least as reliable as anything else on the market--and yet cheaper than the others.
With one exception, that is: Linux, which is right next door, and which is not a business at all. It's a bunch of RVs, yurts, tepees, and geodesic domes set up in a field and organized by consensus. The people who live there are making tanks. These are not old-fashioned, cast-iron Soviet tanks; these are more like the M1 tanks of the U.S. Army, made of space-age materials and jammed with sophisticated technology from one end to the other. But they are better than Army tanks. They've been modified in such a way that they never, ever break down, are light and maneuverable enough to use on ordinary streets, and use no more fuel than a subcompact car. These tanks are being cranked out, on the spot, at a terrific pace, and a vast number of them are lined up along the edge of the road with keys in the ignition. Anyone who wants can simply climb into one and drive it away for free.
Customers come to this crossroads in throngs, day and night. Ninety percent of them go straight to the biggest dealership and buy station wagons or off-road vehicles. They do not even look at the other dealerships.
Of the remaining ten percent, most go and buy a sleek Euro-sedan, pausing only to turn up their noses at the philistines going to buy the station wagons and ORVs. If they even notice the people on the opposite side of the road, selling the cheaper, technically superior vehicles, these customers deride them cranks and half-wits.
The Batmobile outlet sells a few vehicles to the occasional car nut who wants a second vehicle to go with his station wagon, but seems to accept, at least for now, that it's a fringe player.
The group giving away the free tanks only stays alive because it is staffed by volunteers, who are lined up at the edge of the street with bullhorns, trying to draw customers' attention to this incredible situation. A typical conversation goes something like this:
Hacker with bullhorn: "Save your money! Accept one of our free tanks! It is invulnerable, and can drive across rocks and swamps at ninety miles an hour while getting a hundred miles to the gallon!"
Prospective station wagon buyer: "I know what you say is true...but...er...I don't know how to maintain a tank!"
Bullhorn: "You don't know how to maintain a station wagon either!"
Buyer: "But this dealership has mechanics on staff. If something goes wrong with my station wagon, I can take a day off work, bring it here, and pay them to work on it while I sit in the waiting room for hours, listening to elevator music."
Bullhorn: "But if you accept one of our free tanks we will send volunteers to your house to fix it for free while you sleep!"
Buyer: "Stay away from my house, you freak!"
Bullhorn: "But..."
Buyer: "Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"
I for one LOVE my BIG SHINY NEW TANK.
Tech-Cat
Reply #46 Monday, July 7, 2003 2:44 PM
Reply #46 Monday, July 7, 2003 2:44 PM
I remember reading this story in a free e-book about operating systems. Great analogy. I would prefer one of those free tanks and would even donate money to the mechanics to make sure they can keep cranking out more.
Zero2000
Reply #47 Monday, July 7, 2003 2:45 PM
And I love my Batmobile
I'am also quite fond of my Tank as well...
Reply #47 Monday, July 7, 2003 2:45 PM
| I for one LOVE my BIG SHINY NEW TANK |
And I love my Batmobile
I'am also quite fond of my Tank as well...
Drop125
Reply #48 Monday, July 7, 2003 2:46 PM
Reply #48 Monday, July 7, 2003 2:46 PM
Um I have to Question a remark I read at the top..Something about Linux being so Hacker friendly and Thats why everyone does use it...Um last time I checked Linux is a free OS period from the Linux Web sites...Only the Mac OS X and 9 cost money..So you dont need to hack Linux...Or as we put it Go Cruz for SAerialz or Key genzz...Linux rocks Dos sucks......I only use Windows Because of my type of work..( I just cant seem to convince Multi Billion Dollar corps to Switch all their old Dos crap to a nice clean User friendly Unix/Linux solution..And most of all software is written to be used in DOS..Now we know about Virtual PC for Mac..But the general publ;ic is the only true user for that application..Buisnesses cant afford to revamp an entire nationwide network to use linux...WAWAWAWA....!!!!! 
Doomgaze
Reply #49 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:02 PM
don't forget
"And I'm going to starve to death because everyone expects my software to be free, or they make their own version for free that works better!"
Reply #49 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:02 PM
| Hacker with bullhorn: "Save your money! Accept one of our free tanks! It is invulnerable, and can drive across rocks and swamps at ninety miles an hour while getting a hundred miles to the gallon!" |
don't forget
"And I'm going to starve to death because everyone expects my software to be free, or they make their own version for free that works better!"
Tech-Cat
Reply #50 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:27 PM
Reply #50 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:27 PM
Typical FUD. Many Linux distros charge money for their version of Linux. Much of the code is written by programmers paid by Linux companies.
Doomgaze
Reply #51 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:30 PM
Reply #51 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:30 PM
Maybe you also don't know about sourceforge?
The land of better and (mostly) free alternatives?
But I suppose you couldn't hold an argument about BSD licensing vs GPL to save your life, so I'm not even gonna waste my time.
You're just a typical "linux r00lz" monkey who has no backing of reality on their argument.
My job is done here.
The land of better and (mostly) free alternatives?
But I suppose you couldn't hold an argument about BSD licensing vs GPL to save your life, so I'm not even gonna waste my time.
You're just a typical "linux r00lz" monkey who has no backing of reality on their argument.
My job is done here.
Tech-Cat
Reply #52 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:30 PM
Reply #52 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:30 PM
Want to crap on Linux? Then go here: http://www.linuxsucks.org The site is mostly dominated by Linux users including myself. I use to go their to crap on Linux, but I ended up converting.
Tech-Cat
Reply #54 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:34 PM
And you are the typical FUD slinging BSD monkey.
Reply #54 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:34 PM
| You're just a typical "linux r00lz" monkey who has no backing of reality on their argument. |
And you are the typical FUD slinging BSD monkey.
Doomgaze
Reply #55 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:40 PM
Reply #55 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:40 PM
"FUD"
You seem obsessed with the latest and greatest keywords.
Did you e- everything when that was hot too?
Too bad what I speak isn't "FUD" but based on real life experience as a security consultant and the reality of things.
Keep ignoring my questions, its good to play ignorant.
So later'd it isn't even funny.
You seem obsessed with the latest and greatest keywords.
Did you e- everything when that was hot too?
Too bad what I speak isn't "FUD" but based on real life experience as a security consultant and the reality of things.
Keep ignoring my questions, its good to play ignorant.
So later'd it isn't even funny.
Tech-Cat
Reply #56 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:44 PM
Reply #56 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:44 PM
The only e- word I use is e-mail.
How about another vocab word? Bias, such as the one you display against Linux.
How about another vocab word? Bias, such as the one you display against Linux.
DaWebMassa
Reply #58 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:46 PM
Reply #58 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:46 PM
In reality, I am for anything that keeps healthy competition. Linux is good because, if nothing else, it is waking others up and keeping them on thier toes.
IPlural
Reply #59 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:48 PM
Reply #59 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:48 PM
oh hell... someone forgot AIX and also Novell onthe server end of things. Server? Go RED!
Tech-Cat
Reply #60 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:48 PM
Reply #60 Monday, July 7, 2003 3:48 PM
Glad to see you have a tolerant point of view DaWebMassa. I am too for competition.
I recognize Windows' right to exist but Window washers do not recognize Linux's right to exist, kind of like the Middle Eastern conflict.
[Message Edited]
I recognize Windows' right to exist but Window washers do not recognize Linux's right to exist, kind of like the Middle Eastern conflict.
[Message Edited]
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Reply #41 Monday, July 7, 2003 2:08 PM
I'm not "l33t". Notice I don't spell like a l33t t33n. Notice I say Windows not Windoze. I have my reasons for disliking MS. I have been using MS products for years and got sick of their crap. I got sick of their lies about how their next product was so perfect and it turned out to be crap. Windows ME and the lies they told about it before it came out is a good example.
Can't you say anything positive about Linux or is pissing on Linux your purpose in life?