why does windows XP occasionally completely lock?
Saturday, May 31, 2003 by feline | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
somewhat off topic, but i am hoping someone here will have a bright idea.
i have windows XP pro installed on two machines, my home machine and my work machine.
on both machines, windows will now and then totally lock. when this happens the screen stay the same, so no error messages, no blue screen of death, but also no change. the mouse does not work, the keyboard does not work, i cannot even get the caps lock or num lock lights on my keyboard to change. the only thing i have found that works is a hard reset.
my home machine is a fresh install, with no patches or SP's on it yet.
my work machine has every patch and SP going, except for 11 "windows" updates, like media player 9, etc, that shouldn't help fix it.
so, installing patches seems unlikely to fix this problem.
the only real clue i have is that on my home machine this nearly always happens when i am on line (dial up connection, 56k modem). but even then i can go for a couple of weeks or more with no problems at all.
it has happened once already (last night) since my fresh install of windows on my home machine, so i know the bios update i did didn't help.
any helpfully suggestions will be gratefully received.
i have windows XP pro installed on two machines, my home machine and my work machine.
on both machines, windows will now and then totally lock. when this happens the screen stay the same, so no error messages, no blue screen of death, but also no change. the mouse does not work, the keyboard does not work, i cannot even get the caps lock or num lock lights on my keyboard to change. the only thing i have found that works is a hard reset.
my home machine is a fresh install, with no patches or SP's on it yet.
my work machine has every patch and SP going, except for 11 "windows" updates, like media player 9, etc, that shouldn't help fix it.
so, installing patches seems unlikely to fix this problem.
the only real clue i have is that on my home machine this nearly always happens when i am on line (dial up connection, 56k modem). but even then i can go for a couple of weeks or more with no problems at all.
it has happened once already (last night) since my fresh install of windows on my home machine, so i know the bios update i did didn't help.
any helpfully suggestions will be gratefully received.
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c242
Reply #22 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 7:16 AM
Reply #22 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 7:16 AM
Hmmm... Weren't VIA drivers said to be faulty often ? I always had Intel chipsets, so I really don't know. Maybe I am really outdated on that matter... Otherwise a matter not disussed yet is a faulty HD. But You said You had that matter on both machines, so that would be near to impossible. I also read somewhere some time ago, that bad install CD's (bad files mustn't be recognized during install) can cause some trouble. IPlural gave some good tips also, I would try that, too. Just doing a little brainstorm here. 
IPlural
Reply #23 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 7:18 AM
have you pulled the internal modem to see if the issues is resolved by doing so?
Reply #23 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 7:18 AM
| so, there is the slim chance this modem is somehow a factor. |
have you pulled the internal modem to see if the issues is resolved by doing so?
yrag2
Reply #24 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 7:37 AM
Reply #24 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 7:37 AM
feline..it could, as lPlural said, be your internal modem. Disabling sometimes doesn't free up the resources that were assigned to it and locks up when the external modem uses the same resources. It sounds more like your graphics drivers though. Use this program http://www.softnews.ro/public/cat/12/1/12-1-28.shtml to get rid of any Nvidia drivers in your System32 folder and then do a fresh install of 44.03 http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?IO=winxp-2k_44.03 
feline
Reply #25 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 8:41 AM
Reply #25 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 8:41 AM
to answer several questions at once 
i cannot find any references in the event viewer about drivers crashing. or anything else that sounds like a crash for that matter.
when this happens, it is a total windows lock, so even keyboard lights stop working >
i have the latest nvidia drivers as of 1 month ago, i believe they are the 44.03, i will check on that tonight though.
yrag, without trying those programs, what do they do? i ask, because when i install winXP it detects the video card, and pre-installs a basic driver during install. is this driver one i need to try and remove? i went straight from that driver to the 44.xx ones i am using now, so no "bad" drivers in between were installed.
c242, it is a brand new HD, which formats fine. so, hopefully there are no problems with it *hope* *hope*
i can play diablo II for hours at a time, which suggests to me it isn't a video driver problem this time.
the comments about the internal modem are interesting. i will try removing it. perhaps this is a real possible problem. it would explain why being online seems to be a requirement for this problem to show up.
it is just a 1/2 hour operation to get my case open, since there are lots of things on my desk around my computer so, i am loath to open up the case to often
feline hopes that will make everything all better
i cannot find any references in the event viewer about drivers crashing. or anything else that sounds like a crash for that matter.
when this happens, it is a total windows lock, so even keyboard lights stop working >
i have the latest nvidia drivers as of 1 month ago, i believe they are the 44.03, i will check on that tonight though.
yrag, without trying those programs, what do they do? i ask, because when i install winXP it detects the video card, and pre-installs a basic driver during install. is this driver one i need to try and remove? i went straight from that driver to the 44.xx ones i am using now, so no "bad" drivers in between were installed.
c242, it is a brand new HD, which formats fine. so, hopefully there are no problems with it *hope* *hope*
i can play diablo II for hours at a time, which suggests to me it isn't a video driver problem this time.
the comments about the internal modem are interesting. i will try removing it. perhaps this is a real possible problem. it would explain why being online seems to be a requirement for this problem to show up.
it is just a 1/2 hour operation to get my case open, since there are lots of things on my desk around my computer
so, i am loath to open up the case to often feline hopes that will make everything all better
IPlural
Reply #26 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 9:38 AM
Reply #26 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 9:38 AM
here's hoping the snaphu gets dinked!
The Modem, is it a USR 56k internal data/fax?
If so, I can take a look on a couple of driver sites for older hardware and get the link for you, if you like?
The Modem, is it a USR 56k internal data/fax?
If so, I can take a look on a couple of driver sites for older hardware and get the link for you, if you like?
yrag2
Reply #27 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 9:43 AM
Reply #27 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 9:43 AM
feline... to answer your question about drivers...Windows keeps the default driver in backup files so that when there are no other drivers there it tries to install them in System32 folder. If you just delete the main driver the default driver just 'appears' Even if you delete the default driver it will re-appear in about 5 seconds. The first time it happened to me I thought for a minute I was in the Twilight Zone 
The NFR proggie (after an add and remove program uninstall) will delete any off- version files...if it doesn't say 44.03, delete it and install new 44.03 drivers and re-boot. Once you have the 44.03 drivers in, the default drivers (I think they're probably 40.72) will not be copied to your System file. Have I confused you enough??? 
There is one other thing to look at and that is the settings for your memory in the Bios. Overclocked or 'off' memory timings will do what you have and give no warning or log to crash file. The setting that most often is the problem is the Cas setting. If it is set at 2.0 then set it at 2.5..all the others put on Auto or Default.
Good luck
One final thought...make sure you download drivers from Nvidia site...many off-sites have same driver version, but with "tweaked" inf. files. Great for them ..not so great for everyone else
[Message Edited]
Even if you delete the default driver it will re-appear in about 5 seconds. The first time it happened to me I thought for a minute I was in the Twilight Zone 
The NFR proggie (after an add and remove program uninstall) will delete any off- version files...if it doesn't say 44.03, delete it and install new 44.03 drivers and re-boot. Once you have the 44.03 drivers in, the default drivers (I think they're probably 40.72) will not be copied to your System file. Have I confused you enough??? 
There is one other thing to look at and that is the settings for your memory in the Bios. Overclocked or 'off' memory timings will do what you have and give no warning or log to crash file. The setting that most often is the problem is the Cas setting. If it is set at 2.0 then set it at 2.5..all the others put on Auto or Default.Good luck
One final thought...make sure you download drivers from Nvidia site...many off-sites have same driver version, but with "tweaked" inf. files. Great for them ..not so great for everyone else
[Message Edited]
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #28 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 5:39 PM
Reply #28 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 5:39 PM
Hard lockups are usually hardware related.Especially overheating.Try running your pc with the side off just to see if it helps.My pc used to freeze constantly.Mostly when it was doing nothing!(or closing an app)Turned out to be a common problem for the model of motherboard i had.(not able to read and write to memory correctly)A trip to Frys electronics and a cheap 60$ MB fixed everything.
Cavanaugh
Reply #29 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 11:13 PM
Reply #29 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 11:13 PM
if you have an agp video card try turning off fast writes.
synco
Reply #30 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 11:35 PM
Reply #30 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 11:35 PM
yrag: Thanks for the heads up on the 'stable' nvidia drives vs. 'not-so-stable'...I updated mine tonight after uninstalling the older batch. I also had the problem of my default driver popping up again in 5 seconds in sys.32 folder(and yes, it WAS 40.72. I just didn't know why it wouldn't "GO"!!)... and I also thought I was going bonkers! However, I couldn't get the NFR to download, so I just installed the newer 44.03 and when I checked after rebooting, the default driver 'disappeared', (and yes, it WAS 40.72). I'm hoping this may help the problems I've been having, so thnx to you and to all others. I've been trying a lot of your suggestions as well... 
Styl-X Design
Reply #31 Wednesday, June 4, 2003 12:41 AM
Reply #31 Wednesday, June 4, 2003 12:41 AM
Ok, how about the powermanaged ment in the bios?
lkeels
Reply #32 Thursday, June 5, 2003 9:43 PM
Reply #32 Thursday, June 5, 2003 9:43 PM
Just curious...were they loaded from the same copy of Windows XP, and is it a "legit" copy?
synco
Reply #33 Thursday, June 5, 2003 11:11 PM
Reply #33 Thursday, June 5, 2003 11:11 PM
to #32: yes & yes...Since I've updated my nvidia drivers, I decided to put back in the 2nd 256 ram card that seemed to be giving me so much trouble before, and lo' & behold, so far NO REBOOT problem! Mmm..??? So it's possible that the older nvidia drivers were ALWAYS unstable, and that the 2nd card simply magnified that instability (I've heard that this can happen in XP). Before, after I pulled out the 2nd card, no more rebooting. Now with the updated drivers AND the extra card in, so far so good. Mmm again!? Sure hope it's that 'simple'!
Styl Skinner: I don't know much about bios power management. Something I'll have to learn, I guess. IPlural: Thnx for the heads up on the books
Styl Skinner: I don't know much about bios power management. Something I'll have to learn, I guess. IPlural: Thnx for the heads up on the books
feline
Reply #34 Friday, June 6, 2003 3:51 AM
Reply #34 Friday, June 6, 2003 3:51 AM
last night i opened the machine up, and removed the internal modem.
that was followed by 5 trouble free hours online!
it is to early to sensibly conclude that this has fixed my problem, but if it has, i will be very happy.
it seems strange one little modem could have been causing so many problems *shrug*
bestbells, i had some "bad" (as in unstable) nvidia drivers on my machine once. i ended up with regular spontaneous re-boots, and an average up time on 20 minutes!!!
those drivers came straight from nvidia's website, and weren't listed as beta either
i have learnt not to underestimate the problems the wrong video drivers can cause *sigh*
that was followed by 5 trouble free hours online!
it is to early to sensibly conclude that this has fixed my problem, but if it has, i will be very happy.
it seems strange one little modem could have been causing so many problems *shrug*
bestbells, i had some "bad" (as in unstable) nvidia drivers on my machine once. i ended up with regular spontaneous re-boots, and an average up time on 20 minutes!!!
those drivers came straight from nvidia's website, and weren't listed as beta either
i have learnt not to underestimate the problems the wrong video drivers can cause *sigh*
synco
Reply #36 Friday, June 6, 2003 7:58 AM
Reply #36 Friday, June 6, 2003 7:58 AM
Ditto, Feline...straight from the site, and not beta. Amazing what 'havoc' these little devils can 'wreak'. I guess that's kinda' like zig vs zag, or choclate vs vanilla, or...not. (My brains sort of weird after finishing up a project).
Anyway,glad to hear that perhaps YOUR problems been solved, mmmm? It was because of you starting this thread that I got some great input, ideas, and so far no more wacky reboots. My thnx extends definitely to you,too, my dear!
Anyway,glad to hear that perhaps YOUR problems been solved, mmmm?
It was because of you starting this thread that I got some great input, ideas, and so far no more wacky reboots. My thnx extends definitely to you,too, my dear! Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
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Reply #21 Tuesday, June 3, 2003 7:06 AM
The only black screen lock-up I've seen in XP was due to Nvidia drivers crashing. XP should make a report of that in event viewer. Are you using the 44.03 drivers? The drivers previous to that weren't too good. Before 44.03 only 30.82 were really stable drivers.