PNG vs TGA in Skinstudio (what do you think?) - feature voting
Friday, May 23, 2003 by Adam Najmanowicz | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I have a question about usefulness of a feature.
As you know WB uses TGA for translucent images that require alpha channel. I've heard some complaints about how bad TGA support in image editing programs is, but i wanted to hear it again... Have the TGA support improved in PS and PSP over time enough to just use TGAs or would you rather want Skinstudio to fake them with PNG's?
Do you or do you not dislike TGAs?
It would work just like an other visual styles editor does for 32 bit bitmaps. On skin open Skinstudio would convert all TGAs to PNGs and set skin to use PNGs, so it looks like you edit PNGs, but on skin save it converts them back to TGA so WB could actually use them.
As you know WB uses TGA for translucent images that require alpha channel. I've heard some complaints about how bad TGA support in image editing programs is, but i wanted to hear it again... Have the TGA support improved in PS and PSP over time enough to just use TGAs or would you rather want Skinstudio to fake them with PNG's?
Do you or do you not dislike TGAs?
It would work just like an other visual styles editor does for 32 bit bitmaps. On skin open Skinstudio would convert all TGAs to PNGs and set skin to use PNGs, so it looks like you edit PNGs, but on skin save it converts them back to TGA so WB could actually use them.
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Adam Najmanowicz
Reply #24 Saturday, May 24, 2003 1:26 PM
Reply #24 Saturday, May 24, 2003 1:26 PM
thanks everyone for your opinions and insights.
joetheblow
Reply #26 Saturday, May 24, 2003 5:19 PM
Reply #26 Saturday, May 24, 2003 5:19 PM
so since you are the program we use to skin windowblinds, by you saying that it is png does that mean when I open SkinStudio it will use png's now?
Koasati
Reply #27 Saturday, May 24, 2003 6:41 PM
Reply #27 Saturday, May 24, 2003 6:41 PM
joe, Developer SkinStudio, is the Developer of SkinStudio.. (imagine that)........ he will add this feature to the program, and release it when it's ready....... your existing copy will not change...
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
joetheblow
Reply #28 Saturday, May 24, 2003 7:13 PM
Reply #28 Saturday, May 24, 2003 7:13 PM
soooooo... then SkinStudio the program is not posting. I was waiting for ObjectBar to saying something.
it would be amazing if that could happen or scary
ha ha...
it would be amazing if that could happen or scary
ha ha...
paxx
Reply #29 Saturday, May 24, 2003 8:23 PM
Reply #29 Saturday, May 24, 2003 8:23 PM
So, how is it going to be? Since you're SkinStudio, not Windowblinds, your question was probably not about Windowblinds' support of the PNG format, right? Windowblinds would still use TGAs but Skinstudio would convert from and to PNGs?
As I said, it would be nice if Windowblinds supported PNGs directly. Could you talk to Mr Windowblinds about this please? 
Adam Najmanowicz
Reply #30 Tuesday, May 27, 2003 3:41 PM
Reply #30 Tuesday, May 27, 2003 3:41 PM
WindowBlinds is not going to support PNG for reasons. WB is speed, speed and nothing but the speed. Said that, PNG is quite a complex format, thus, far slower to decode. The second reason is that it would have to load the lpng.dll library which is much heavier than the small routine WB uses to load TGAs. You don't want WB to have it loaded all the time, do you?
Now how I imagine the PNG support. Skinstudio would convert TGA images to PNG either on skin open or on first edit action on a TGA. The conversion back would be deferred to the moment of skin save. So on skin save Skinstudio would take all the references to PNG files and convert them back to TGA in the final skin. This though would only happen on the file WB works with (not the ~prefixed Skinstudio temporary file). The reason for that would be so that if it converted it back in the working file all the PNG images you are editing in e.g. Photoshop would loose the link with the skin. Since Skinstudio is working on a living body (unlike StyleBuilder that works on a copy of everything including the images) every PNG image that is saved after Skinstudio is closed will loose the link with the skin, there is no magic involved.
Now how I imagine the PNG support. Skinstudio would convert TGA images to PNG either on skin open or on first edit action on a TGA. The conversion back would be deferred to the moment of skin save. So on skin save Skinstudio would take all the references to PNG files and convert them back to TGA in the final skin. This though would only happen on the file WB works with (not the ~prefixed Skinstudio temporary file). The reason for that would be so that if it converted it back in the working file all the PNG images you are editing in e.g. Photoshop would loose the link with the skin. Since Skinstudio is working on a living body (unlike StyleBuilder that works on a copy of everything including the images) every PNG image that is saved after Skinstudio is closed will loose the link with the skin, there is no magic involved.
MadIce
Reply #31 Tuesday, May 27, 2003 4:15 PM
Reply #31 Tuesday, May 27, 2003 4:15 PM
I am all in for automatic conversion. PNG and PSP work very well, but for some reason TGA files behave differently when you create them. Only Jasc knows why. PNG is very easy to handle and I would love it if SkinStudio did an automatic conversion from PNG to TGA when required.
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
joetheblow
Reply #32 Tuesday, May 27, 2003 6:11 PM
Reply #32 Tuesday, May 27, 2003 6:11 PM
ok so go for it dude! your the program!
(now if only it would help more with Object Bar... like with pictures instead of just code... and have more skin wizard templates for windowblinds than Luna... maybe a template with animation help in it???)
(now if only it would help more with Object Bar... like with pictures instead of just code... and have more skin wizard templates for windowblinds than Luna... maybe a template with animation help in it???)
Adam Najmanowicz
Reply #33 Wednesday, May 28, 2003 2:43 AM
well... there is one problem i have with it... I would better like to avoid distributing Skinstudio on 5 CDs
Reply #33 Wednesday, May 28, 2003 2:43 AM
| (now if only it would help more with Object Bar... like with pictures instead of just code... and have more skin wizard templates for windowblinds than Luna... maybe a template with animation help in it???) |
well... there is one problem i have with it... I would better like to avoid distributing Skinstudio on 5 CDs
paxx
Reply #34 Wednesday, May 28, 2003 2:55 AM
Reply #34 Wednesday, May 28, 2003 2:55 AM
Maybe have a seperate Skin Studio for Object Bar.
I must admit I gave up on ObjectBar. I can't understand how it's skinned and how it's done. It just confuses the heck out of me, and I know I'm not alone. I think something should be done about it.
I must admit I gave up on ObjectBar. I can't understand how it's skinned and how it's done. It just confuses the heck out of me, and I know I'm not alone. I think something should be done about it.
c242
Reply #35 Wednesday, May 28, 2003 3:27 AM
Me, too. Never installed it anymore for months now.
Reply #35 Wednesday, May 28, 2003 3:27 AM
| #34 by paxx - 5/28/2003 2:55:01 AM I must admit I gave up on ObjectBar. I can't understand how it's skinned and how it's done. It just confuses the heck out of me, and I know I'm not alone. I think something should be done about it. |
Me, too. Never installed it anymore for months now.
joetheblow
Reply #36 Wednesday, May 28, 2003 8:17 AM
Reply #36 Wednesday, May 28, 2003 8:17 AM
yes paxx you are not alone. after a while I didn't use SkinStudio for Object Bar anymore (sorry SkinStudio) and just did it with the code in the .obtheme file and the .bar files messing with screen positions, images, pup up, rip away and all that stuff.
Oh and I don't know if you can pass this along but Object Bar doesn't seem to like tga's Since windowblinds does I think OB should too so you can import the skin file without crying over the wacky look.
anyway, ok so make it 2 CD's and call it even? New templates for windowblinds, help with animations, and... I forgot the other one... ???
Oh and I don't know if you can pass this along but Object Bar doesn't seem to like tga's Since windowblinds does I think OB should too so you can import the skin file without crying over the wacky look.
anyway, ok so make it 2 CD's and call it even? New templates for windowblinds, help with animations, and... I forgot the other one... ???
Adam Najmanowicz
Reply #37 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:49 PM
Reply #37 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:49 PM
Delivered as requested:
http://adam.joeuser.com/articleComments.asp?AID=2574
Will be part of next SkinStudio release.
http://adam.joeuser.com/articleComments.asp?AID=2574
Will be part of next SkinStudio release.
Z06Leonhart
Reply #39 Friday, December 12, 2003 12:02 AM
Reply #39 Friday, December 12, 2003 12:02 AM
I use PS so i have no problem with tga at all, but why cant Skinstudio support both png and tga?
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Reply #21 Friday, May 23, 2003 2:10 PM
What I would like to see, though, is either tga or png support for the window borders. Having the buttons all nicely anti-aliased is great, but it doesn't look so hot if the same type of corners are on the window frame and they aren't anti-aliased. Know what I mean?