The reward!
Tuesday, May 6, 2003 by adni18 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
The only reward for an author in WinCustomize is the love of the people mainly, which is demonstrated with the downloads and the Top Author list, no doubt about it.
Now WinCustomize is trying to find out a way to control this.
I am still having the most downloads, but it doesn't saw it in the list any more, one day you may find your self in this situation too.
I know that some or many of you didn’t like to see me at the top of this list, but I have succeed it with a hard work for almost 2 years now, nobody has make me a favor for this, I may say the opposite has happen.
I was newbie once; I didn’t start from the top of this list, so I can’t understand what is all about helping the new author’s excuse, if you know what I mean.
So please, don’t try to be like me, because in the end you will get a great disappointment as the final reward for your work and your participation as an active member in WC.
After what is happening now, I have decided to stop, as long as the situation is like this.
You won’t see any more any “cheap stuff made in China from Panascanic”. (This was another reward for my work!).
I like to give my thanks to people who have have been kind with me, that was all I really needed, and I understand the reason for those that they didn’t , I don’t blame them, they just could not be different.
“With all its sham and drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world”.
Now WinCustomize is trying to find out a way to control this.
I am still having the most downloads, but it doesn't saw it in the list any more, one day you may find your self in this situation too.
I know that some or many of you didn’t like to see me at the top of this list, but I have succeed it with a hard work for almost 2 years now, nobody has make me a favor for this, I may say the opposite has happen.
I was newbie once; I didn’t start from the top of this list, so I can’t understand what is all about helping the new author’s excuse, if you know what I mean.
So please, don’t try to be like me, because in the end you will get a great disappointment as the final reward for your work and your participation as an active member in WC.
After what is happening now, I have decided to stop, as long as the situation is like this.
You won’t see any more any “cheap stuff made in China from Panascanic”. (This was another reward for my work!).
I like to give my thanks to people who have have been kind with me, that was all I really needed, and I understand the reason for those that they didn’t , I don’t blame them, they just could not be different.
“With all its sham and drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world”.
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c242
Reply #62 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 1:31 PM
This is the second threat or third now that I consider a shame. Adni, sometimes I think You have 2 personalities, sorry to say that. I was in the top list 1 time for 1 day (and that was in the beginning of the site) and then never again. So did I lose fun ? No ! (Although I don't compare myself to You and others). There are so many great skinners here, that never make it into the top list. I barely look at it nowadays, because there are the same names for such a long time that I completely lost interest looking at it. That's the same as with my musical taste : I don't care for charts because I have my own taste... If You do skinning to be on the top list. please quit. I think You have become too big in a too short time. Together with that other post You wrote about ratings I must say that I lost a big piece of respect for You, sadly. I will never forget Your nice comments on skins from others (including mine) but I also have to notice the things negatively that are going on from Your direction lately...
Reply #62 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 1:31 PM
This is the second threat or third now that I consider a shame. Adni, sometimes I think You have 2 personalities, sorry to say that. I was in the top list 1 time for 1 day (and that was in the beginning of the site) and then never again. So did I lose fun ? No ! (Although I don't compare myself to You and others). There are so many great skinners here, that never make it into the top list. I barely look at it nowadays, because there are the same names for such a long time that I completely lost interest looking at it. That's the same as with my musical taste : I don't care for charts because I have my own taste... If You do skinning to be on the top list. please quit. I think You have become too big in a too short time. Together with that other post You wrote about ratings I must say that I lost a big piece of respect for You, sadly. I will never forget Your nice comments on skins from others (including mine) but I also have to notice the things negatively that are going on from Your direction lately... 
Apocalypse_67
Reply #63 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 1:33 PM
Reply #63 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 1:33 PM
I have read all the posts in regard to this issue of Top Authors. And I think if we really want to be fair, the correct thing to do is feature 2 lists. One with the over all Top Authors and another with the featured Top Author for the day, week or month (how ever management figures) This way there's a equality of fairness on both sides of the artists group.
As a new artist my self, I can understand how some new artists want to be awknowlege or noticed, specially if they are doing great work. When my name appeared on the Top 10, I must admit it felt real nice to see it there.
But I also see where Adni and other season artist feel when they are in the lead of overall Top Authors, and their names dont show or show below artists that have few overall downloads.
So, on the spirit of fairness, I hope we can see the 2 lists soon.
As a new artist my self, I can understand how some new artists want to be awknowlege or noticed, specially if they are doing great work. When my name appeared on the Top 10, I must admit it felt real nice to see it there.
But I also see where Adni and other season artist feel when they are in the lead of overall Top Authors, and their names dont show or show below artists that have few overall downloads.
So, on the spirit of fairness, I hope we can see the 2 lists soon.
mooshoo
Reply #65 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 1:34 PM
Reply #65 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 1:34 PM
umm, Adni they're experimenting with a new way of doing it... they never said this is the way it would be.
... i can understand your frustrations and it's sad to see you go... but as stated before if making the top downloads is such a big deal for you, you are doing this for the wrong reasons... I make stuff and know that I will NEVER be in the top authors... yet that doesn't make me leave. rather, I just make more stuff and don't up it because I know it won't be enjoyed by many people except myself...
so, good bye then.
... i can understand your frustrations and it's sad to see you go... but as stated before if making the top downloads is such a big deal for you, you are doing this for the wrong reasons... I make stuff and know that I will NEVER be in the top authors... yet that doesn't make me leave. rather, I just make more stuff and don't up it because I know it won't be enjoyed by many people except myself...
so, good bye then.
Ingui
Reply #66 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 1:53 PM
Reply #66 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 1:53 PM
Your up there twice DM. That skin I made featured your wall 
Congrats
I hate to even comment on the subject of this thread. This is the second one in as many weeks, by the same person, lamenting the same topic. I almost posted earlier , typed about a paragraph, and just closed the window. It's been bugging me all day. I was pretty surprised to see where I wound up today on that list. I saw my download numbers moving like never before and knew I'd end up somewhere in the top ten. People were downloading my new skin. It was being well recieved, better than I hoped as I was a little disappointed in it myself and its got a few quirks that I just dont have the knowledge to fix yet.
I'd be lying if I said it didnt feel good to see your name there, but thats not why I am here. I am here coz this is way fun. I make what I like and share it. My "reward", my self-satisfaction grows from a few different channels. First, my own feelings about what I have made. After that, once I've shared it here, of course I have an interest in what others "think" of it. It's a piece of myself. How do I gauge? How do I judge if I've done something to be proud of. Obviously I will watch my downloads, and I look at the ratings here as the popular vote.
But for myself, the greatest reward here, is the comments. It's humbling (that should be in caps) The people's "voice". The names that go with those numbers. The comments put faces on those abstract numbers. Ive met people here, forged new associations, given and recieved help, collaborated. Emails and comments here from the actuall people downloading and using my work, telling me in their words how they feel, what they think, whats right or wrong and why. And I always try to reply. Priceless and REWARDING.
And now I see a movement growing to feature new artists, and I am quietly rooting for it. It wont benefit me as much since I guess I am in that "in-between" place. Not so new, not so well established as others. I think it would be great for those newcomers, with talent or skill or just imagination and new ideas . I envy these new talents who will enter with that opportunity that I missed out on. I remember, feeling like a small fish in big ocean, and I still feel that way coz this site is a big ocean.
I am grateful for this sites existence coz I found a channel for something I love to do. Grateful to the people who accepted me and encouraged me. Then I see this again, and I hope I'm getting it wrong. But I'm reading and re-reading and I still see the same thing. Someone crying and willing to quit coz they lost the number 1 slot for a day, or their ratings slid on a few walls. I wish I had the skills to bust out a wall fitting of this site. Maybe someday.
If I'm wrong, I truly apologize... I want to be wrong. I'm not looking to bash anyone here, least of all a talented and accomplished skinner. Just seems that priorities are often misplaced. Maybe I just misunderstood and again, I am sorry, but either way I felt the need to express my feelings on the whole DL/Rating/Lists "thing".
Jason
CongratsI hate to even comment on the subject of this thread. This is the second one in as many weeks, by the same person, lamenting the same topic. I almost posted earlier , typed about a paragraph, and just closed the window. It's been bugging me all day. I was pretty surprised to see where I wound up today on that list. I saw my download numbers moving like never before and knew I'd end up somewhere in the top ten. People were downloading my new skin. It was being well recieved, better than I hoped as I was a little disappointed in it myself and its got a few quirks that I just dont have the knowledge to fix yet.
I'd be lying if I said it didnt feel good to see your name there, but thats not why I am here. I am here coz this is way fun. I make what I like and share it. My "reward", my self-satisfaction grows from a few different channels. First, my own feelings about what I have made. After that, once I've shared it here, of course I have an interest in what others "think" of it. It's a piece of myself. How do I gauge? How do I judge if I've done something to be proud of. Obviously I will watch my downloads, and I look at the ratings here as the popular vote.
But for myself, the greatest reward here, is the comments. It's humbling (that should be in caps) The people's "voice". The names that go with those numbers. The comments put faces on those abstract numbers. Ive met people here, forged new associations, given and recieved help, collaborated. Emails and comments here from the actuall people downloading and using my work, telling me in their words how they feel, what they think, whats right or wrong and why. And I always try to reply. Priceless and REWARDING.
And now I see a movement growing to feature new artists, and I am quietly rooting for it. It wont benefit me as much since I guess I am in that "in-between" place. Not so new, not so well established as others. I think it would be great for those newcomers, with talent or skill or just imagination and new ideas . I envy these new talents who will enter with that opportunity that I missed out on. I remember, feeling like a small fish in big ocean, and I still feel that way coz this site is a big ocean.
I am grateful for this sites existence coz I found a channel for something I love to do. Grateful to the people who accepted me and encouraged me. Then I see this again, and I hope I'm getting it wrong. But I'm reading and re-reading and I still see the same thing. Someone crying and willing to quit coz they lost the number 1 slot for a day, or their ratings slid on a few walls. I wish I had the skills to bust out a wall fitting of this site. Maybe someday.
If I'm wrong, I truly apologize... I want to be wrong. I'm not looking to bash anyone here, least of all a talented and accomplished skinner. Just seems that priorities are often misplaced. Maybe I just misunderstood and again, I am sorry, but either way I felt the need to express my feelings on the whole DL/Rating/Lists "thing".
Jason
sig101
Reply #68 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 2:05 PM
Reply #68 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 2:05 PM
Which numbers are the "wrong" numbers, Adni? The ones that only show downloads on this site? Or the ones that show downloads from this site *and* downloads as a result from links on other sites? That, evidently is the main difference according to FB above. And if it really didn't matter, would you raise the issue?
Joe, I understand Adni's first language isn't English, but I believe his command of the language is sufficient to say, "I don't care and I'm not complaining" in one thread and then care very much and say it's unfair in another. I'm really not "bashing" Adni as I know he's a generous and talented fellow. Generous to other artists as well. But I do think he's gone off a bit half cocked without sufficient information and jumped to conclusions that the system is being "rigged" somehow in order to dethrone him from the number #1 spot. There's a difference (evidently) between #1 in downloads only by users of this site and #1 total overall downloads including other sites who have linked to here. What's wrong with having both numbers? What is wrong is if Adni doesn't want to know what the numbers represent because he's fixating on one number and avers that any other representation specific to this site only must be "wrong."
I just think he should have first investigated to determine what methodology was and is now being used and what the prior and current numbers actually represent before saying it's "unfair." In the earlier thread people were advised not to pay attention to to the numbers for a few days as they're trying to figure out what's a more equitable way of presenting the numbers for *this* site. And presumably it shall be explained as in the T-man thread, not hidden away in some dark conspiracy against a certain author.
Joe, I understand Adni's first language isn't English, but I believe his command of the language is sufficient to say, "I don't care and I'm not complaining" in one thread and then care very much and say it's unfair in another. I'm really not "bashing" Adni as I know he's a generous and talented fellow. Generous to other artists as well. But I do think he's gone off a bit half cocked without sufficient information and jumped to conclusions that the system is being "rigged" somehow in order to dethrone him from the number #1 spot. There's a difference (evidently) between #1 in downloads only by users of this site and #1 total overall downloads including other sites who have linked to here. What's wrong with having both numbers? What is wrong is if Adni doesn't want to know what the numbers represent because he's fixating on one number and avers that any other representation specific to this site only must be "wrong."
I just think he should have first investigated to determine what methodology was and is now being used and what the prior and current numbers actually represent before saying it's "unfair." In the earlier thread people were advised not to pay attention to to the numbers for a few days as they're trying to figure out what's a more equitable way of presenting the numbers for *this* site. And presumably it shall be explained as in the T-man thread, not hidden away in some dark conspiracy against a certain author.
Green Armani
Reply #69 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 2:07 PM
Reply #69 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 2:07 PM
I can't help but feel bothered that soooo many people are seriously ganging up on Nikos for feeling the way he does.
If nothing else put yourself in his shoes. Being the number one D/L author for days, weeks, and months on end....and now that's gone. You say that's not a big deal, well your saying it from a prespective of never even attaining what he has. Satisifaction and reward are relative here since none of us are making money off of what we are doing on this site, so if a few of you take pride in knowing that your work made it on...great! For others who actually look at it as a challenge and make attempts to be the best...even better! I find it hard to believe that anyone of you have not been in either or both of the two I just mentioned above.....that's like saying "all" of you bought your version of Bryce, Photoshop, or whatever suits your fancy.
I almost feel like he is Microsoft and has been regulated so that his part of the software market is controlled. I myself have ony been on the "List" once for like an hour or something probably......whatever the outcome I just hope you don't decide to leave Nikos......a core of artists is what made this site what it is and I can't but help feel that your roll was one of the biggest and this is how you are treated
If nothing else put yourself in his shoes. Being the number one D/L author for days, weeks, and months on end....and now that's gone. You say that's not a big deal, well your saying it from a prespective of never even attaining what he has. Satisifaction and reward are relative here since none of us are making money off of what we are doing on this site, so if a few of you take pride in knowing that your work made it on...great! For others who actually look at it as a challenge and make attempts to be the best...even better! I find it hard to believe that anyone of you have not been in either or both of the two I just mentioned above.....that's like saying "all" of you bought your version of Bryce, Photoshop, or whatever suits your fancy.
I almost feel like he is Microsoft and has been regulated so that his part of the software market is controlled. I myself have ony been on the "List" once for like an hour or something probably......whatever the outcome I just hope you don't decide to leave Nikos......a core of artists is what made this site what it is and I can't but help feel that your roll was one of the biggest and this is how you are treated
c242
Reply #70 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 2:09 PM
Reply #70 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 2:09 PM
It always is this 'conspiracy' undertone that bugs me... NOONE of the admins and 99,9+% of the people here is willing to do You any harm, Adni...
sig101
Reply #72 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 2:30 PM
Reply #72 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 2:30 PM
Ganging up on Adni? Because some of us (or at least I) think Adni should check his facts before crying "foul" and having a snit? That's what's frustrating. He did it on another thread before, making allegations without first determining the facts. I'd have that same response to anyone who did that, regardless of how many skins and downloads they had or did not have. It's Adni's choice to go if he wishes but I think it's based on an erroneous premise. That's what I would like him to try and consider.
Green Armani
Reply #73 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 2:33 PM
Reply #73 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 2:33 PM
Wrong or right I just feel the approach to enlighten him is being done in poor taste. That is my 'opinion', I myself don't understand fully whats going on but as it seems right now....the top author list is misleading, and there is better ways of telling him "See ya, and close the door behind you".
sig101
Reply #74 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 3:09 PM
Reply #74 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 3:09 PM
Well I thought his threads and allegations were in poor taste, myself. If he intends to go because the numbers don't suit him, should the methodology for Top Authors on this site which is now limited to downloads by users of this site be dumped (even if it is unfair to others here) just to please him? That's evidently what he's asking for. That's blackmail. That's not in particularly good taste or admirable either.
adni18
Reply #75 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 3:22 PM
Reply #75 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 3:22 PM
sig101,
Because you insisting to abuse me, I have to answer.
What are you talking about?
Did you read my post? Do you think that you know the facts?
If you did, which I am sure you don't, you couldn't talk that way.
Because you insisting to abuse me, I have to answer.
What are you talking about?
Did you read my post? Do you think that you know the facts?
If you did, which I am sure you don't, you couldn't talk that way.
sig101
Reply #76 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 3:59 PM
Reply #76 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 3:59 PM
What are the facts as you understand them Adni? So you may correct my misunderstanding.
The methodology has changed so that Top Authors reflects downloads only from users oof this site and excludes downloads triggered from other sites. So it is a list of Top Authors on *this* site based on downloads directly from *this site only*. The total number of downloads from all sites to here also are noted if you also look at the other page. So there are two sets of numbers, one specific to this site and one inclusive of all downloads regardless of the originating source. So your problem with that is precisely what?
And I abuse you? How? Do I say you are a bad person and a bad artist? Tell me precisely how have I "abused" you? By saying you have on this and other occasions have jumped to conclusions and made unfounded allegations? Is that a falsehood? If it is not, how is that abuse? To disagree with you is to abuse you? To say that you threaten to leave if the numbers aren't tallied in a manner that suits you? That's not what you said? That's not a form of extortion? That's not conduct some may find unseemly?
Tell me what "facts" to which you refer, Adni, of which I evidently am unaware. And what is wrong with using "Top Authors" to reflect the top downloads on this site only? Please explain what is unfair about that?
The methodology has changed so that Top Authors reflects downloads only from users oof this site and excludes downloads triggered from other sites. So it is a list of Top Authors on *this* site based on downloads directly from *this site only*. The total number of downloads from all sites to here also are noted if you also look at the other page. So there are two sets of numbers, one specific to this site and one inclusive of all downloads regardless of the originating source. So your problem with that is precisely what?
And I abuse you? How? Do I say you are a bad person and a bad artist? Tell me precisely how have I "abused" you? By saying you have on this and other occasions have jumped to conclusions and made unfounded allegations? Is that a falsehood? If it is not, how is that abuse? To disagree with you is to abuse you? To say that you threaten to leave if the numbers aren't tallied in a manner that suits you? That's not what you said? That's not a form of extortion? That's not conduct some may find unseemly?
Tell me what "facts" to which you refer, Adni, of which I evidently am unaware. And what is wrong with using "Top Authors" to reflect the top downloads on this site only? Please explain what is unfair about that?
Frogboy
Reply #77 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 4:08 PM
Reply #77 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 4:08 PM
Please remember that Adni's native language is Greek. These kinds of topics are quite delicate to discuss. Imagine someone who's native language is English trying to communicate effectively and delicately in say French or Italian.
adni18
Reply #78 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 4:22 PM
Reply #78 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 4:22 PM
sig101,
I din't want to go on with a personal argument with you, but I have to answer you again.
All this tread is about downloads and top authors list, ok?
Because you know the facts, can you make some things clear for me?
MadIce said that it is good for the newbies, T-Man says that it is for the system secure, Frogboy says it is about the featured skin-the skincast and the downloads from other sites and I say where are my downloads which are ALL from WinCustomize???
I din't want to go on with a personal argument with you, but I have to answer you again.
All this tread is about downloads and top authors list, ok?
Because you know the facts, can you make some things clear for me?
MadIce said that it is good for the newbies, T-Man says that it is for the system secure, Frogboy says it is about the featured skin-the skincast and the downloads from other sites and I say where are my downloads which are ALL from WinCustomize???
adni18
Reply #79 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 4:23 PM
Reply #79 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 4:23 PM
Thanks Frogboy, I am a good talker with the Greek language, but I don't really know how my English sound.
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
DarkMist
Reply #80 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 4:29 PM
Reply #80 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 4:29 PM
Just end this. dont care how just end it. No offence to anyone its just gonna go on and on otherwise.
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Reply #61 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 1:30 PM
Please see T-Mans post about how the top author ratings are being calculated now. I think that he went over i quite thoroughly. Top total download does not = top author due to issues that he mentioned.