The reward!
Tuesday, May 6, 2003 by adni18 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
The only reward for an author in WinCustomize is the love of the people mainly, which is demonstrated with the downloads and the Top Author list, no doubt about it.
Now WinCustomize is trying to find out a way to control this.
I am still having the most downloads, but it doesn't saw it in the list any more, one day you may find your self in this situation too.
I know that some or many of you didn’t like to see me at the top of this list, but I have succeed it with a hard work for almost 2 years now, nobody has make me a favor for this, I may say the opposite has happen.
I was newbie once; I didn’t start from the top of this list, so I can’t understand what is all about helping the new author’s excuse, if you know what I mean.
So please, don’t try to be like me, because in the end you will get a great disappointment as the final reward for your work and your participation as an active member in WC.
After what is happening now, I have decided to stop, as long as the situation is like this.
You won’t see any more any “cheap stuff made in China from Panascanic”. (This was another reward for my work!).
I like to give my thanks to people who have have been kind with me, that was all I really needed, and I understand the reason for those that they didn’t , I don’t blame them, they just could not be different.
“With all its sham and drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world”.
Now WinCustomize is trying to find out a way to control this.
I am still having the most downloads, but it doesn't saw it in the list any more, one day you may find your self in this situation too.
I know that some or many of you didn’t like to see me at the top of this list, but I have succeed it with a hard work for almost 2 years now, nobody has make me a favor for this, I may say the opposite has happen.
I was newbie once; I didn’t start from the top of this list, so I can’t understand what is all about helping the new author’s excuse, if you know what I mean.
So please, don’t try to be like me, because in the end you will get a great disappointment as the final reward for your work and your participation as an active member in WC.
After what is happening now, I have decided to stop, as long as the situation is like this.
You won’t see any more any “cheap stuff made in China from Panascanic”. (This was another reward for my work!).
I like to give my thanks to people who have have been kind with me, that was all I really needed, and I understand the reason for those that they didn’t , I don’t blame them, they just could not be different.
“With all its sham and drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world”.
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Green Armani
Reply #42 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:19 AM
Reply #42 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:19 AM
Why can't you have two lists....one featuring the overall top downloaded author and one that is a hot list of the most popular author for current skins, walls, and whatever else.
The overall downloads would just reflect which author was downloaded the most and the second could have a hot list of current authors who is being downloaded. The current top author list is not reflecting actually the top author because the top author is still Nikos.
Anyone who says that they do it for themselves is somewhat stretching that idea. Why else do you spend a lot of time making anything? Why then do you submit it?
I do this because I love it yes....but also because it is a challenge. I'll look at something someone made and tell myslef "Hey why didn't I think of that", then I plop in front of the comp and try to make something better.
Nothing is wrong with having a competitive spirit....we shouldn't even be using that word, "competition".......it cheapens the experience that all the artists here are going through, and the reason why is because a competition has a winner and more so a lot of losers....and I can't find a single loser on this site.
I ask anyone who has had the top download in any category for the day or was the top author.....how did you feel? Did you say "Yeah I'm glad I was able to share"....okay, maybe you did....but, how many of you felt like the top dog, the "winner" almost, for the day.
I fully understand the feeling Nikos has because I would feel the same.
The overall downloads would just reflect which author was downloaded the most and the second could have a hot list of current authors who is being downloaded. The current top author list is not reflecting actually the top author because the top author is still Nikos.
Anyone who says that they do it for themselves is somewhat stretching that idea. Why else do you spend a lot of time making anything? Why then do you submit it?
I do this because I love it yes....but also because it is a challenge. I'll look at something someone made and tell myslef "Hey why didn't I think of that", then I plop in front of the comp and try to make something better.
Nothing is wrong with having a competitive spirit....we shouldn't even be using that word, "competition".......it cheapens the experience that all the artists here are going through, and the reason why is because a competition has a winner and more so a lot of losers....and I can't find a single loser on this site.
I ask anyone who has had the top download in any category for the day or was the top author.....how did you feel? Did you say "Yeah I'm glad I was able to share"....okay, maybe you did....but, how many of you felt like the top dog, the "winner" almost, for the day.
I fully understand the feeling Nikos has because I would feel the same.
DarkMist
Reply #43 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:23 AM
Reply #43 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:23 AM
Try the new system but if it fails at least look at doing 2 lists.
MarkMcQ
Reply #44 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:29 AM
Reply #44 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:29 AM
The only reason some people are in the top authors list for so long, is because they're in the top authors list for so long.
If your name is up there, people will click it to see your work, and every click brings more downloads and keeps you in there.
Doesn't mean people there are any better than the rest, just means the rest haven't gotten as much exposure.
Personally I'd do away with that list, it's causing too much hassle lately.
Coupled with the amount of people whining about ratings too, makes you wonder if anyone actually skins as a hobby anymore.
If your name is up there, people will click it to see your work, and every click brings more downloads and keeps you in there.
Doesn't mean people there are any better than the rest, just means the rest haven't gotten as much exposure.
Personally I'd do away with that list, it's causing too much hassle lately.
Coupled with the amount of people whining about ratings too, makes you wonder if anyone actually skins as a hobby anymore.
EventHorizon
Reply #46 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 10:04 AM
Reply #46 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 10:04 AM
»"My reward is knowing people like my work and actually want to have it. "
Id have to say that that is the exact same reason I do walls and am starting CurXP and WB skinning...Personally, I think that just because you arent No1 on the top authors list day after day is no excuse that you should quit making skins/walls or whatever. Ive never been on the top authors list but I dont really care either...Yea, you get to have your screen name up there...but If you want fame and recognition that bad...go spraypaint the streets with 'adni18'
Id have to say that that is the exact same reason I do walls and am starting CurXP and WB skinning...Personally, I think that just because you arent No1 on the top authors list day after day is no excuse that you should quit making skins/walls or whatever. Ive never been on the top authors list but I dont really care either...Yea, you get to have your screen name up there...but If you want fame and recognition that bad...go spraypaint the streets with 'adni18'
treetog
Reply #47 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 10:07 AM
Reply #47 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 10:07 AM
Green Armani: "The overall downloads would just reflect which author was downloaded the most and the second could have a hot list of current authors who is being downloaded."
Go here https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=145374#145432 and you will understand better what is being done.
Go here https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=145374#145432 and you will understand better what is being done.
Green Armani
Reply #48 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 10:14 AM
Reply #48 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 10:14 AM
Argghhh I need to read more threads....it was just something I was thinking
davad70
Reply #49 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 10:49 AM
Reply #49 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 10:49 AM
»"1) Featured skin / Skin cast downloads were not counting as downloads before. So ironically, having your skin featured on WinCustomize actually hurt your ranking. I think any reasonable person will agree that that wasn't fair."
Hmmm...I'm really surprised that featured skin downloads didn't count. It always seemed that skins that were featured almost always showed up in the top download list the following day. Even when a skin was a bit older and was featured it would regularly show up in the top ten. Or maybe it counted as an individual skin but wasn't added to the author's totals?
Hmmm...I'm really surprised that featured skin downloads didn't count. It always seemed that skins that were featured almost always showed up in the top download list the following day. Even when a skin was a bit older and was featured it would regularly show up in the top ten. Or maybe it counted as an individual skin but wasn't added to the author's totals?
treetog
Reply #50 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 11:13 AM
Reply #50 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 11:13 AM
davad70 this was changed now with the new ranking system, today it doesn't count Featured skin / Skin cast downloads like in the past.
Lady_Akasha
Reply #51 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 11:13 AM
Reply #51 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 11:13 AM
First I just read that thread "Top Author Ranking" by T-Man;
about bots and cookies. All I have to say is that is just sad, it really is.
I have to agree with some of what Armani and a few others have said. There is no question we do this because we truly enjoy doing it. First and foremost I create for ME. Because I am incomplete unless I am creating something, whether it be on pc, or with real paint or writing. However,no artist can deny that when they create something that they are quite proud of, seeing the healthy download count,it DOES make you feel good! I love it when I make something that I thought was good, and I see you guys downloading it, or hear of how great you think it looks on your DT, it makes me happy that I provided that! It's not about needing acceptance or a low self esteem, it's about "Hey I love doing this, their liking it...maybe I'm not too bad at this,eh?
" If I were to only get 1 download for my next creation; would I stop creating? NOPE!Because in the end I do create for ME! I was toying with graphics for a couple of years, before I ever submitted a thing to any site. Would I like to hit Top Authors...sure!
Darn it, I am rambling again, I do that too much
Anywhoo, my point is, if this change in the Top Authors list makes things more fair, and is for the greater good of ALL artists. That is fantastic! As I read the T-Man thread it sounds like that is what they are really working hard at doing. And I think we should support it! Because to me it sounds like they are trying to think of 'us' the authors, ALL of us.
And I think that is really cool.
To be honest, I was so happy when I logged on today, and saw Dark Mist on that Top Authors list!!! I thought that was just the coolest thing. Does that mean I was happy to see Adni18 drop down a couple of notches. NO!!! It means I was happy for Dark Mist! Adni18's popularity is well known, and his work has inspired many an artist, something we're all grateful for. His designs have obviously adorned many a DT, and been enjoyed by artists and users alike. NO ONE can take that away from him!!!!!! He is very talented. I am in no way going to do Adni Bashing as I do think he is extremely talented. But I have to say, as someone who has been inspired by his work, and enjoyed it, used it on my own DT, and hell looked at it and it made me work harder and try to be a better artist. As one artist to another even if I am newbie in comparison to him, I am quite concerned that he has forgotten why he's doing this. It's not all about numbers, and ratings. Yes they're great , and he's good...nothing is going to change that, nor can. But of late I'm sorry there seems to be a great deal of intensity over ratings and who's really number one. NO ONE wants to see him go and stop creating as we all love his work, but that doesn't seem to be enough "Reward" for Adni.
And Adni if that sounded like I was bashing you I genuinely apologize as that was not the intent, I was merely trying to point out that you are talented, people love what you do, and I hope that you remember those that wait for your next creation before you make choices over numbers.
about bots and cookies. All I have to say is that is just sad, it really is.
I have to agree with some of what Armani and a few others have said. There is no question we do this because we truly enjoy doing it. First and foremost I create for ME. Because I am incomplete unless I am creating something, whether it be on pc, or with real paint or writing. However,no artist can deny that when they create something that they are quite proud of, seeing the healthy download count,it DOES make you feel good! I love it when I make something that I thought was good, and I see you guys downloading it, or hear of how great you think it looks on your DT, it makes me happy that I provided that! It's not about needing acceptance or a low self esteem, it's about "Hey I love doing this, their liking it...maybe I'm not too bad at this,eh?
" If I were to only get 1 download for my next creation; would I stop creating? NOPE!Because in the end I do create for ME! I was toying with graphics for a couple of years, before I ever submitted a thing to any site. Would I like to hit Top Authors...sure!Darn it, I am rambling again, I do that too much
Anywhoo, my point is, if this change in the Top Authors list makes things more fair, and is for the greater good of ALL artists. That is fantastic! As I read the T-Man thread it sounds like that is what they are really working hard at doing. And I think we should support it! Because to me it sounds like they are trying to think of 'us' the authors, ALL of us.
And I think that is really cool.To be honest, I was so happy when I logged on today, and saw Dark Mist on that Top Authors list!!! I thought that was just the coolest thing. Does that mean I was happy to see Adni18 drop down a couple of notches. NO!!! It means I was happy for Dark Mist! Adni18's popularity is well known, and his work has inspired many an artist, something we're all grateful for. His designs have obviously adorned many a DT, and been enjoyed by artists and users alike. NO ONE can take that away from him!!!!!! He is very talented. I am in no way going to do Adni Bashing as I do think he is extremely talented. But I have to say, as someone who has been inspired by his work, and enjoyed it, used it on my own DT, and hell looked at it and it made me work harder and try to be a better artist. As one artist to another even if I am newbie in comparison to him, I am quite concerned that he has forgotten why he's doing this. It's not all about numbers, and ratings. Yes they're great , and he's good...nothing is going to change that, nor can. But of late I'm sorry there seems to be a great deal of intensity over ratings and who's really number one. NO ONE wants to see him go and stop creating as we all love his work, but that doesn't seem to be enough "Reward" for Adni.
And Adni if that sounded like I was bashing you I genuinely apologize as that was not the intent, I was merely trying to point out that you are talented, people love what you do, and I hope that you remember those that wait for your next creation before you make choices over numbers.
paxx
Reply #52 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 11:14 AM
Reply #52 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 11:14 AM
davad, it's so much that way. It's not that the featured skin had his download disregarded.
From what I understand it's the skincast feature in Windowblinds that wasn't counted. If I'm right, it means that when a Windowblinds skin is featured on skincast, then for users who have that feature enabled, Windowblinds will show a screenshot of that skin in your Appearance menu, where you can automatically download it and apply it. Those downloads were not counted before, and that was not fair because the skins actually were indeed downloaded and applied.
At least, that's how I understand it.
From what I understand it's the skincast feature in Windowblinds that wasn't counted. If I'm right, it means that when a Windowblinds skin is featured on skincast, then for users who have that feature enabled, Windowblinds will show a screenshot of that skin in your Appearance menu, where you can automatically download it and apply it. Those downloads were not counted before, and that was not fair because the skins actually were indeed downloaded and applied.
At least, that's how I understand it.
Alexandrie
Reply #53 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 11:17 AM
Reply #53 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 11:17 AM
Do I cry because I am not on top? no, it does not means you are not good skinner.
sig101
Reply #54 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 11:24 AM
Reply #54 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 11:24 AM
From https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=144016#144472 WOM's thread "Top Authors"
_______________________
#13 by adni18 - 5/4/2003 12:39:05 AM
I am not coplaining and I don't care either, but the true Top Authors list for Saturday, May 03, 2003 is about:
adni18 5500
pasley 4500
starone 4000
mormegil 3500
etc
I don't know where those numbers I see today, Sunday, May 04, 2003 are comming from
___________________________
So how many hundreds or thousands or millions of downloads does it take for an author to feel his/her work is appreciated? Is it that important to be #1 on this site even if that number may not reflect only the downloads pulled directly from this site but includes those pulled from links on other sites? Why not ask and find out what the numbers truly represent before jumping to conclusions and taking off in a huff? Why no concerns about the methodology or whether it's been actually fair to the other uploaders here who may not have their work uploaded to as many sites as you as long as you're #1 here?
You've always been #1 so any change in methodology must be unfair to or directed at you? Even if it turns out that your work may not really be #1 in downloads pulled directly by users on this site? What a shock that must be. Sorry, but this is an unbecoming snitfest IMO.
Does this mean you refuse to upload work to this site unless you are rated #1? Even if you are not actually #1 in downloads by users of this site? Well then...OK.
_______________________
#13 by adni18 - 5/4/2003 12:39:05 AM
I am not coplaining and I don't care either, but the true Top Authors list for Saturday, May 03, 2003 is about:
adni18 5500
pasley 4500
starone 4000
mormegil 3500
etc
I don't know where those numbers I see today, Sunday, May 04, 2003 are comming from
___________________________
So how many hundreds or thousands or millions of downloads does it take for an author to feel his/her work is appreciated? Is it that important to be #1 on this site even if that number may not reflect only the downloads pulled directly from this site but includes those pulled from links on other sites? Why not ask and find out what the numbers truly represent before jumping to conclusions and taking off in a huff? Why no concerns about the methodology or whether it's been actually fair to the other uploaders here who may not have their work uploaded to as many sites as you as long as you're #1 here?
You've always been #1 so any change in methodology must be unfair to or directed at you? Even if it turns out that your work may not really be #1 in downloads pulled directly by users on this site? What a shock that must be. Sorry, but this is an unbecoming snitfest IMO.
Does this mean you refuse to upload work to this site unless you are rated #1? Even if you are not actually #1 in downloads by users of this site? Well then...OK.
DarkMist
Reply #55 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 11:25 AM
Reply #55 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 11:25 AM
Thank you Lady Akasha...came as quite a shock to me when i logged on.
But a very nice suprise
Will be seeing you up there and others too very soon
But a very nice suprise
Will be seeing you up there and others too very soon
DarkMist
Reply #57 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 11:30 AM
Reply #57 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 11:30 AM
Thank you, oh and congrats on your Madam...sorry if you've had it a while, never noticed
joetheblow
Reply #58 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 1:03 PM
Reply #58 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 1:03 PM
ummm... I don't understand the andi bashing... I don't think he is saying he does work to be on the top of the list.
I think he is saying he knows that he has made thousands (literally) of skins and wall that get downloaded consitantly and that should show on the top download list in all fairness. This is why andi is a mainstay on the list. Others might get hi downloads in a day or week but after that the skin is forgotten or just not as downloaded.
and for those who quote andi's words, please understand english is not his first language, ask him to clarify. My first post alluded to some more clarification (I guess I should have just asked )
To me, it is plain that they (the site) is trying some new formula because, as I wrote before, allot of the time in months past the download number next to the name was closer to the 600 numbers than 200...
just wait and see what is done. Then we all can complain about it later
I think he is saying he knows that he has made thousands (literally) of skins and wall that get downloaded consitantly and that should show on the top download list in all fairness. This is why andi is a mainstay on the list. Others might get hi downloads in a day or week but after that the skin is forgotten or just not as downloaded.
and for those who quote andi's words, please understand english is not his first language, ask him to clarify. My first post alluded to some more clarification (I guess I should have just asked
)To me, it is plain that they (the site) is trying some new formula because, as I wrote before, allot of the time in months past the download number next to the name was closer to the 600 numbers than 200...
just wait and see what is done. Then we all can complain about it later
adni18
Reply #59 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 1:19 PM
Reply #59 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 1:19 PM
Reading all these posts, make me wonder if by mistake I have opened this thread using Greek instead of English….
I am not complaining because I am not no1 at the Top Authors List, which list by the way is using wrong numbers.
I just can’t stand the unfairness and if fighting for fair is a crime, then crucify me.
I see a lot of confusion in many posts and I think it is done for purpose.
I never said that I am the best either, there are a lot of people with great talent among us, which I respect and they are better than me.
I guess, that this is my last post, which I am sure that those who understand what is going on, they have get the message, for the rest, I am sorry I can’t do nothing more.
I am not complaining because I am not no1 at the Top Authors List, which list by the way is using wrong numbers.
I just can’t stand the unfairness and if fighting for fair is a crime, then crucify me.
I see a lot of confusion in many posts and I think it is done for purpose.
I never said that I am the best either, there are a lot of people with great talent among us, which I respect and they are better than me.
I guess, that this is my last post, which I am sure that those who understand what is going on, they have get the message, for the rest, I am sorry I can’t do nothing more.
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Reply #41 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:02 AM
Without going into too many details, there were two things that changed:
1) Featured skin / Skin cast downloads were not counting as downloads before. So ironically, having your skin featured on WinCustomize actually hurt your ranking. I think any reasonable person will agree that that wasn't fair.
2) The previous ranking system didn't make a distinction between a download that was simply linked from another site and one where the user actually was visiting this site. The top authors and top skins on a given day should be based on people who are actually on WinCustomize downloading stuff.
In addition, if you click on the headers for either, you can still go to the top skins and top authors per category and those are still counted by raw downloads:
https://www.wincustomize.com/index.asp?Cmd=TopAuthorsExtended
Statistically speaking, the ordering of authors and skins shouldn't be significantly changed in theory other than the featured skin author getting a boost for that particular day and a handful of days subsequently.