Why I do not agree with moderators
Friday, May 2, 2003 by GreyTata | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I said in my previous message that I do not agree with moderators and before someone thinks that's because some of my works did not pass the "test",I will throw a little bit of light about the subject.
Rules were made with good intentions, trying to preserve a certain quality of the published works.
However what I think is that, wallpapers authors, do try to present original works, made by themselves, without copying them from other sources and maintaining a good sense in terms of morality of the images presented. Pornography is obviously out, "Britney Spears" photos are out as well, bla, bla, bla...( I invite all of you to read carefully the rules and guidelines of Wincustomize for wallpapers...).Also, confusing images, too bright colors, bla, bla, bla are not accepted. Ok, no problem...
What surprises me is that, there are dozens, hundreds of published images that are completely the oposite of the established rules. And its here that I do not agree with the rules.
Rules must work for everybody, with good and serious isention from moderators. And seeing the wallpapers collection, sometimes I question myself about that isention. But OK, as I said on adni's thread (" Please do something about it" ), we cannot do nothing.
I am here at Wincusto and submit my works for fun. I do not make a living from this, I do not need to prove anything to anybody and I do not need to be recognized as a great ( or not ) wallpaper maker or something similar. With 46 years old, I have proved already a lot of things...to myself. I am here just for fun.
I am the ultimate critic and "moderator" for the images I put in my desktop. I download many from Wincustomize and if I do not like them after living with them for somedays, I through them in the recycle bin. And I do the same with my own images. I do not need that anyone should tell me what I must use in my desktop or not.
And this is not only applicable to wallpapers. There are for example and in my humble opinion, dozens of Windowblinds skins that are confusing, do not work properly, they are heavy on the system, slow, etc etc etc. But should their authors be banished of not accepted because of that ? I think not. Why ? Because I decide what works for me and my computer, not anyone else.
And that's it.
Rules were made with good intentions, trying to preserve a certain quality of the published works.
However what I think is that, wallpapers authors, do try to present original works, made by themselves, without copying them from other sources and maintaining a good sense in terms of morality of the images presented. Pornography is obviously out, "Britney Spears" photos are out as well, bla, bla, bla...( I invite all of you to read carefully the rules and guidelines of Wincustomize for wallpapers...).Also, confusing images, too bright colors, bla, bla, bla are not accepted. Ok, no problem...
What surprises me is that, there are dozens, hundreds of published images that are completely the oposite of the established rules. And its here that I do not agree with the rules.
Rules must work for everybody, with good and serious isention from moderators. And seeing the wallpapers collection, sometimes I question myself about that isention. But OK, as I said on adni's thread (" Please do something about it" ), we cannot do nothing.
I am here at Wincusto and submit my works for fun. I do not make a living from this, I do not need to prove anything to anybody and I do not need to be recognized as a great ( or not ) wallpaper maker or something similar. With 46 years old, I have proved already a lot of things...to myself. I am here just for fun.
I am the ultimate critic and "moderator" for the images I put in my desktop. I download many from Wincustomize and if I do not like them after living with them for somedays, I through them in the recycle bin. And I do the same with my own images. I do not need that anyone should tell me what I must use in my desktop or not.
And this is not only applicable to wallpapers. There are for example and in my humble opinion, dozens of Windowblinds skins that are confusing, do not work properly, they are heavy on the system, slow, etc etc etc. But should their authors be banished of not accepted because of that ? I think not. Why ? Because I decide what works for me and my computer, not anyone else.
And that's it.
Jafo
Reply #2 Friday, May 2, 2003 4:10 AM
Reply #2 Friday, May 2, 2003 4:10 AM
GreyTata...
Wincustomize.com is a SKINNING site. Being such, it has walls as well.
Wincustomize.com is not a WALLPAPER site. But it happens to have walls.
Wallpapers are ONLY one contributing part to the whole field of 'Skinning'...[the desktop image].
Wall creation is extremely popular and there is quite an extensive range of proficiency apparent in any wall section on any site.
Were some form of 'moderation' [restriction] imposed Wincustomize.com would have well over 10,000 walls...probably closer to 15,000 by now.
A phenomenal proportion would be, to put it 'politely' absolute crap. Some attain the heady heights of being SO bad they are almost 'classics'.
This isn't a subjective opinion...they really ARE bad.
To be honest, for those who remember it, 'Still Trapped In Bryceworld' would be in the top 50 percentile of 'good walls'....and that IS telling....
Sure, many are 'culled' because they tend to be 'good', BUT just 'more of the same'. Example?...the first Bryce spheroid in chrome floating over the ocean was 'WOW, that roXorz your soXorz'....but now, it's barf-time....
Now, being a skinning site, skins, such as the WindowBlinds themes will usually be accepted, even if perhaps lacking in practicality/completeness/whatever, and are only checked for 'originality' vs. 'ripping'....porn, etc.
The policy pertaining to wall moderation won't be changing here.
If people expect/want every wall they create to find a home publicly on the net then that's exactly what private websites are for...
Wincustomize.com is a SKINNING site. Being such, it has walls as well.
Wincustomize.com is not a WALLPAPER site. But it happens to have walls.
Wallpapers are ONLY one contributing part to the whole field of 'Skinning'...[the desktop image].
Wall creation is extremely popular and there is quite an extensive range of proficiency apparent in any wall section on any site.
Were some form of 'moderation' [restriction] imposed Wincustomize.com would have well over 10,000 walls...probably closer to 15,000 by now.
A phenomenal proportion would be, to put it 'politely' absolute crap. Some attain the heady heights of being SO bad they are almost 'classics'.
This isn't a subjective opinion...they really ARE bad.
To be honest, for those who remember it, 'Still Trapped In Bryceworld' would be in the top 50 percentile of 'good walls'....and that IS telling....
Sure, many are 'culled' because they tend to be 'good', BUT just 'more of the same'. Example?...the first Bryce spheroid in chrome floating over the ocean was 'WOW, that roXorz your soXorz'....but now, it's barf-time....
Now, being a skinning site, skins, such as the WindowBlinds themes will usually be accepted, even if perhaps lacking in practicality/completeness/whatever, and are only checked for 'originality' vs. 'ripping'....porn, etc.
The policy pertaining to wall moderation won't be changing here.
If people expect/want every wall they create to find a home publicly on the net then that's exactly what private websites are for...
GreyTata
Reply #4 Friday, May 2, 2003 4:35 AM
Reply #4 Friday, May 2, 2003 4:35 AM
Opinions...Jafo, opinions
Note that I am not telling that the policy should be changed. A rule is a rule and that's it.
What I question - do u like or not - is sometimes the eventual isention of wall moderation, according to some walls that were accepted and published.
That's all the point of this thread...
And please note also, that I understand that what might be good for me, is not good for you and vice-versa. What u think is crap, might be not crap for me or others.And vice-versa...
Because - do u like it por not - some of the walls that are published are really BAD for my eyes and probably to others.
Does this mean that the site has bad moderators/administrators ? I think not...but eventually and sometimes not with 100% isention.
Afterall, we all are human beings....not machines, so sometimes...we all fail.
Note that I am not telling that the policy should be changed. A rule is a rule and that's it.
What I question - do u like or not - is sometimes the eventual isention of wall moderation, according to some walls that were accepted and published.
That's all the point of this thread...
And please note also, that I understand that what might be good for me, is not good for you and vice-versa. What u think is crap, might be not crap for me or others.And vice-versa...
Because - do u like it por not - some of the walls that are published are really BAD for my eyes and probably to others.
Does this mean that the site has bad moderators/administrators ? I think not...but eventually and sometimes not with 100% isention.
Afterall, we all are human beings....not machines, so sometimes...we all fail.
KarmaGirl
Reply #5 Friday, May 2, 2003 4:50 AM
Reply #5 Friday, May 2, 2003 4:50 AM
GreyTata , you keep using a non-word: "isention" which I keep trying to figure out. By context, I assume that you mean "intention" but I'm not sure.
Another points to keep in mind- not all "artwork" makes a good wallpaper. Submissions are also moderated by many admins, so it is not one persons opinion on if a wallpaper is rejected.
Another points to keep in mind- not all "artwork" makes a good wallpaper. Submissions are also moderated by many admins, so it is not one persons opinion on if a wallpaper is rejected.
KarmaGirl
Reply #6 Friday, May 2, 2003 4:59 AM
Reply #6 Friday, May 2, 2003 4:59 AM
That should be "Other points"... (Needed to correct that before Jafo got me)
ArturNGreyTata
Reply #7 Friday, May 2, 2003 5:02 AM
Reply #7 Friday, May 2, 2003 5:02 AM
KarmaGirl,
I agree with u, an "artwork" (or pseudo artwork ) does not make a good wallpaper.
I know that moderation is made by several people and that's why I accept the fact that not all works can pass the submission test.
What I question is the fact that, under my point of view and knowing the rules and guidelines that you imposed ( and well imposed ) some of the works published do not meet those requirements. But this is my point of view.
But again, I am only an user/member of this site, so I have to accept admins. opinions, although sometimes I might not agree with them.
I agree with u, an "artwork" (or pseudo artwork ) does not make a good wallpaper.
I know that moderation is made by several people and that's why I accept the fact that not all works can pass the submission test.
What I question is the fact that, under my point of view and knowing the rules and guidelines that you imposed ( and well imposed ) some of the works published do not meet those requirements. But this is my point of view.
But again, I am only an user/member of this site, so I have to accept admins. opinions, although sometimes I might not agree with them.
paxx
Reply #8 Friday, May 2, 2003 5:16 AM
Reply #8 Friday, May 2, 2003 5:16 AM
GreyTata,
Fact is, we moderators and admins are not machines. There are many factors that could explain why acceptance or rejection of some works may not always be consistant.
- We are many moderators, which may cause inconsistancy at times.
- We are humans, with feelings, and we may some days feel more forgiving than others.
- Some days receive more submissions than others, and the quality of these vay greatly. For example if a given wallpaper was submitted at the same time as very poor wallpapers, it may stand out, in the context, as a good wallpaper; but if the same wallpaper was submitted along with other fantastic pieces of work, it could then appear to be more average.
There could be many more reasons. But the bottom line is that judging wallpapers is not science, and there are no script we can program to automatically accept or reject wallpapers according to a strict set of rules.
But I do think that the inconsistancy probably involves wallpapers that should have been rejected; top quality wallpapers will always stand out, in any circumptances. What may happen is that the more average ones, once in a while, get accepted.
Also, don't forget that there are a few wallpaper artists who do not go through moderation, because it has been deemed that their work is generally of higher quality; but even te best can have bad days, therefore, there cold be lesser good wallpapers that we don't see before they are publicly added to the library.
Fact is, we moderators and admins are not machines. There are many factors that could explain why acceptance or rejection of some works may not always be consistant.
- We are many moderators, which may cause inconsistancy at times.
- We are humans, with feelings, and we may some days feel more forgiving than others.
- Some days receive more submissions than others, and the quality of these vay greatly. For example if a given wallpaper was submitted at the same time as very poor wallpapers, it may stand out, in the context, as a good wallpaper; but if the same wallpaper was submitted along with other fantastic pieces of work, it could then appear to be more average.
There could be many more reasons. But the bottom line is that judging wallpapers is not science, and there are no script we can program to automatically accept or reject wallpapers according to a strict set of rules.
But I do think that the inconsistancy probably involves wallpapers that should have been rejected; top quality wallpapers will always stand out, in any circumptances. What may happen is that the more average ones, once in a while, get accepted.
Also, don't forget that there are a few wallpaper artists who do not go through moderation, because it has been deemed that their work is generally of higher quality; but even te best can have bad days, therefore, there cold be lesser good wallpapers that we don't see before they are publicly added to the library.
ArturNGreyTata
Reply #9 Friday, May 2, 2003 5:38 AM
Reply #9 Friday, May 2, 2003 5:38 AM
Paxx,
That's why on #5, I said that we all are human beings, not machines, so sometimes we all fail.
However I totally disagree with u, when u say that there are a few wallpaper artists that do not go through moderation because u assume that their work is of higher quality.
But now I understand and without knowing who might they be, why some of the wallpapers in my point of view, do not meet your tight requirements.
Anyway, thanks for your honest, human and serious explanation.
You ( moderators ) do will not get rid of me ( or my works ) easily...even if they do not pass the test.
That's why on #5, I said that we all are human beings, not machines, so sometimes we all fail.
However I totally disagree with u, when u say that there are a few wallpaper artists that do not go through moderation because u assume that their work is of higher quality.
But now I understand and without knowing who might they be, why some of the wallpapers in my point of view, do not meet your tight requirements.
Anyway, thanks for your honest, human and serious explanation.
You ( moderators ) do will not get rid of me ( or my works ) easily...even if they do not pass the test.
Jess McGuay
Reply #10 Friday, May 2, 2003 5:45 AM
Reply #10 Friday, May 2, 2003 5:45 AM
...well my 2 cents on the subject of WP's. I know their here but to be honest think I've browsed the section once or twice in 2 yrs...it just has no pull for me period. If I get a skin and it refeers to a WP designed for it AND I like cool otherwise I use what I want. To me this site was never about WP's their there as a convienience is how I kinda looked at it. This is , to my understanding a Skin site so obviously most skins will make it. When it comes to WP way too many sites DEDICATED to wp only to expect the mods here to spend as much time on WP as they do with Skins and other stuff. Furthermore its sort of a stretch but may put in perspective: An art gallery Chooses what art to display (and to me this place is sort of an art gallery) the artists don't yell at the gallery owner because he doesnt wish to display that persons works.
The origonal poster of this thread may make great WP's or they may be something I totally hate who knows but there are sites specifically oriented to WP's and perhaps thats where they need to be sent instead.
I guess one simple solution for WC admins would be to freeze ALL wp submitions except those that are part of a submitted skin. Then no hurt feelings or complaints on impatiality since wouldnt be taking any that were not directly related to a skin.
The origonal poster of this thread may make great WP's or they may be something I totally hate who knows but there are sites specifically oriented to WP's and perhaps thats where they need to be sent instead.
I guess one simple solution for WC admins would be to freeze ALL wp submitions except those that are part of a submitted skin. Then no hurt feelings or complaints on impatiality since wouldnt be taking any that were not directly related to a skin.
Styl-X Design
Reply #11 Friday, May 2, 2003 5:49 AM
Reply #11 Friday, May 2, 2003 5:49 AM
graytata, keep in mind that it has become more difricult to let a wall "pass" the test then before. Because of the great number of uploaded walls, the admins were forced to make it harder (nearly imposible ) to get a wall here.
I got a dozens of walls that are much better then my preveriouse submissions that just didn't made it (HINT HINT )
) to get a wall here.I got a dozens of walls that are much better then my preveriouse submissions that just didn't made it (HINT HINT
)
paxx
Reply #12 Friday, May 2, 2003 5:58 AM
Reply #12 Friday, May 2, 2003 5:58 AM
GreyTata: this site has the policy of trying to reward people who contribute to it. That's why we have those classes (Citizen, Apprentice, Journeymen, etc.). The more you contribute in quality, in time, and dedication, the more the site thanks you and promote you to different levels that gives you extra priviledges. People of the Journeyman class and above have the priviledge to bypass moderation.
pjpowell
Reply #13 Friday, May 2, 2003 6:00 AM
Reply #13 Friday, May 2, 2003 6:00 AM
GreyTata: I know you don't mean it to be that way but your response here is one of the reasons people don't get a rejection letter explaining why it 'failed to make the grade'. Not all are as polite as you and many are a lot more vociferous.
ArturNGreyTata
Reply #14 Friday, May 2, 2003 6:12 AM
Reply #14 Friday, May 2, 2003 6:12 AM
Paxx, got the message, did not know how things work...level wise.
Pipowell, it is always out of the question to be unpolite, whatever the situation is.
I am not one of those that hides behind a keyboard.
Pipowell, it is always out of the question to be unpolite, whatever the situation is.
I am not one of those that hides behind a keyboard.
pjpowell
Reply #15 Friday, May 2, 2003 8:53 AM
Reply #15 Friday, May 2, 2003 8:53 AM
Artur: To me it makes no difference if someone corresponds in private with an admin about how wallpapers are dealt with here or if they correspond in public. It's still taking the time to respond when they probably have better things to do. This topic is brought up time and time again and the situation is just not going to change. The only possible change I can see would be to scrap the wallpapers completely. Problem solved. It's fair to all as no one can upload no matter what their status and the a lot of time is saved in the whole moderation thing.
Of course this is not what people who come here for walls and for sharing their art want and a lot of wall artists would most likely be offended.
Of course this is not what people who come here for walls and for sharing their art want and a lot of wall artists would most likely be offended.
Jafo
Reply #16 Saturday, May 3, 2003 6:25 PM
Reply #16 Saturday, May 3, 2003 6:25 PM
pjp...certainly the scrapping of the wall section would lessen the admins' load, but it won't be happening.
Since the change in 'notification methods' it's been much more 'bearable' dealing with wall moderation/s, with far fewer admin suicides and behind-the-scenes wall-uploader murders....
Since the change in 'notification methods' it's been much more 'bearable' dealing with wall moderation/s, with far fewer admin suicides and behind-the-scenes wall-uploader murders....
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Reply #1 Friday, May 2, 2003 3:31 AM
The only way to really cut down on complaints of "why aren't the moderators following their own rules" is to not post the rules. That, pr generalize them a little more.
(I have not actually read the rules yet, so ignore me if I am way off base here)