T-Man's Religous Debate for Doreen
Wednesday, April 30, 2003 by T-Man | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
My God is right and your god is wrong. Unless of course your god is the same as my God. But in either case, I am right.
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Doreen
Reply #42 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 9:45 PM
Reply #42 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 9:45 PM
and that's about all you can do T-Man cuz it's not us that does the saving it's God right?
I don't really talk much about my relationship w/ God cuz I'm afraid of misrepresenting him I get ashamed since I know my thoughts are never pure and I remember the one thing in the Bible I did happen to read of all things, was if you think something in your heart it's the same as doing it therefore I think I'm going to Hell! hehe
these days I struggle w/ my relationship w/ God not cuz what I do cuz I don't do much bad but I don't do much good either... but I think the guilt from this thread may make me cross the street and walk to Church Sunday (maybe)
I don't really talk much about my relationship w/ God cuz I'm afraid of misrepresenting him I get ashamed since I know my thoughts are never pure and I remember the one thing in the Bible I did happen to read of all things, was if you think something in your heart it's the same as doing it therefore I think I'm going to Hell! hehe
these days I struggle w/ my relationship w/ God not cuz what I do cuz I don't do much bad but I don't do much good either... but I think the guilt from this thread may make me cross the street and walk to Church Sunday (maybe)
BoXXi
Reply #43 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 9:56 PM
Reply #43 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 9:56 PM
BoXXi can't believe this thread..........................Religion?.......Pffft!! 
Doreen
Reply #44 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 10:06 PM
Reply #44 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 10:06 PM
there I go thinking nasty thoughts again! hehe
j/k hello BoXXi
(well since T-Man went and made this thread for me I can say & think what I want in it right?) hehe
j/k hello BoXXi
(well since T-Man went and made this thread for me I can say & think what I want in it right?) hehe
Aleatoric
Reply #45 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 11:09 PM
Reply #45 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 11:09 PM
Do not say 'I follow the one true path of the Spirit', but rather, 'I have found the Spirit walking on my path, for the Spirit walks on all paths'. - Khalil Gibran -
For me, the above quote encompasses the truth behind God. IMVHO (and my firm belief), God will judge you on your actions, and on how you treat others, and not on how well or thoroughly you followed some particular text or dogma. To hate and belittle others is a greater form of blasphemy against God than any rejection of dogma.
For me, the above quote encompasses the truth behind God. IMVHO (and my firm belief), God will judge you on your actions, and on how you treat others, and not on how well or thoroughly you followed some particular text or dogma. To hate and belittle others is a greater form of blasphemy against God than any rejection of dogma.
joetheblow
Reply #46 Thursday, May 1, 2003 2:34 AM
Reply #46 Thursday, May 1, 2003 2:34 AM
So far in my life time here on Earth I realized two things.
>I can be wrong even though I feel I am right to the utmost degree.
>Religion and faith rarely get along with each other.
as you pointed out Bangkokboy, religion, I believe, by definition is a set of repeated acts to condition you into understanding something. So it is easy to get into going to church every Sunday, and yet it doesn't mean anything to you anymore because you do it out of religion; A repeated exercise.
Not good.
Also I find it fascinating that people will kill others for being in the wrong religion because they are going to Hell
as if the person doing the killing will not or could not. Of course he is doing God's will by killing the non what ever.
Each religion is guilty of shying away from faith and going into hand guns and bats to do what God would do if She was here.
funny but since you have faith, don't you think She is here?
AND also wouldn't God, being the most powerful force in the Universe and in fact is the Universe, be able to do it Himself?
The Crusades? He could have don't that, did need you to kill people into submission
911? God's will? hardly. The infidels can be destroyed by God and really doesn't need your help, Thank You. You could help by fasting and praying to save your own soul. But that's just my opinion.
My Land as ordained by God? Give me a break. As God's child you own everything you see. All is 'your land'. Given to you to live a freely be on paid for by special Sponsorship. Do you share it. You better believe it. You want a special place for your 'religion; ', good luck (although you should not need it being that God has 'spoken' on your 'ordained land')
Lets read the Bible literally... ooops mistake. Not to be read literally. 1589 some odd pages about everything that has happened, will happen and is happening as well as the names of all the children and their personalities, as well as everything in the Universe is a tall order for 1600 pages.
Keep in mind that religion is a invented name. It was and is a way of other faiths recognizing each other. If I am a Christian, I a because the Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist etc or the atheist has to call me something.
Jesus never said, "Thau art Christianity therefore you are Christians." I belive there was some reference to the name Christian, but only because someone else was tiring to describe them.
I tried to get on this subject on the Good Vs. Evil thread. I have come to a conclusion that God is not the God I studied in Bible class. she is evolving extreme intelligence and everywhere. From the rock on the floor to the computer you type in. All matter was created from Her. Like a artist and a paining.
So if you believe you exist and others exist and the message board exists and electricity exists than whether you know it or not or believe, God exists. That is the proof. No magic. Like gravity or Math. Like air, or your own person. Think about it. Hell is the lack of God (not really fire and brimstone although that might be how it feels). In other word you are feeling the lack of your own existence. You yourself are slipping away out of the creative mind of God.
Now this is the funny part. God is the Universe. What happens here is a set of laws and rules we were created by and live with every day. You don't need faith to belive that. Faith is the idea that God is alive in the since of a thinking entity that you can meet and talk to. It is possible that God is a one cell universal entity much like an amoeba on the scale of ... really large. Doesn't 'think' as we know thinking is.
This is where Faith comes in. do you believe God is a thinking, feeling entity, or is God a one cell amoeba floating around through time and space with a ultimate end?
Either way, God exists.
>I can be wrong even though I feel I am right to the utmost degree.
>Religion and faith rarely get along with each other.
as you pointed out Bangkokboy, religion, I believe, by definition is a set of repeated acts to condition you into understanding something. So it is easy to get into going to church every Sunday, and yet it doesn't mean anything to you anymore because you do it out of religion; A repeated exercise.
Not good.
Also I find it fascinating that people will kill others for being in the wrong religion because they are going to Hell
as if the person doing the killing will not or could not. Of course he is doing God's will by killing the non what ever.Each religion is guilty of shying away from faith and going into hand guns and bats to do what God would do if She was here.
funny but since you have faith, don't you think She is here?AND also wouldn't God, being the most powerful force in the Universe and in fact is the Universe, be able to do it Himself?
The Crusades? He could have don't that, did need you to kill people into submission
911? God's will? hardly. The infidels can be destroyed by God and really doesn't need your help, Thank You. You could help by fasting and praying to save your own soul. But that's just my opinion.
My Land as ordained by God? Give me a break. As God's child you own everything you see. All is 'your land'. Given to you to live a freely be on paid for by special Sponsorship. Do you share it. You better believe it. You want a special place for your 'religion; ', good luck (although you should not need it being that God has 'spoken' on your 'ordained land')
Lets read the Bible literally... ooops mistake. Not to be read literally. 1589 some odd pages about everything that has happened, will happen and is happening as well as the names of all the children and their personalities, as well as everything in the Universe is a tall order for 1600 pages.
Keep in mind that religion is a invented name. It was and is a way of other faiths recognizing each other. If I am a Christian, I a because the Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist etc or the atheist has to call me something.
Jesus never said, "Thau art Christianity therefore you are Christians." I belive there was some reference to the name Christian, but only because someone else was tiring to describe them.
I tried to get on this subject on the Good Vs. Evil thread. I have come to a conclusion that God is not the God I studied in Bible class. she is evolving extreme intelligence and everywhere. From the rock on the floor to the computer you type in. All matter was created from Her. Like a artist and a paining.
So if you believe you exist and others exist and the message board exists and electricity exists than whether you know it or not or believe, God exists. That is the proof. No magic. Like gravity or Math. Like air, or your own person. Think about it. Hell is the lack of God (not really fire and brimstone although that might be how it feels). In other word you are feeling the lack of your own existence. You yourself are slipping away out of the creative mind of God.
Now this is the funny part. God is the Universe. What happens here is a set of laws and rules we were created by and live with every day. You don't need faith to belive that. Faith is the idea that God is alive in the since of a thinking entity that you can meet and talk to. It is possible that God is a one cell universal entity much like an amoeba on the scale of ... really large. Doesn't 'think' as we know thinking is.
This is where Faith comes in. do you believe God is a thinking, feeling entity, or is God a one cell amoeba floating around through time and space with a ultimate end?
Either way, God exists.
Styl-X Design
Reply #47 Thursday, May 1, 2003 2:50 AM
Reply #47 Thursday, May 1, 2003 2:50 AM
why do I always try to stay out of this threats?
grayhaze
Reply #48 Thursday, May 1, 2003 3:17 AM
Reply #48 Thursday, May 1, 2003 3:17 AM
I read every word of what you said joetheblow, and I'm still not even the slightest bit closer to agreeing with you. Things exist, and therefore God must exist? Isn't that a rather simplistic and foolish way of thinking?
I decided that I'm going to create my own religion. It revolves around worshipping a being you can't see, hear or feel, but he's still there. His name is Teddy. I know that's his name because I read it in an old book somewhere.
Now the rules of this religion are simple. If you don't walk backwards and hop on one leg at least twice a day, then when you die you'll go to a place called Slugworld. In Slugworld, everyone is a slug and every so often it rains salt. It's never quite enough salt to kill you, but it'll hurt. Of course, nobody who has gone to Slugworld can verify what I'm telling you because they're slugs now, and they can't talk. Also, nobody knows where Slugworld is, so there's no way to prove it to you.
All isn't lost however. If you're faithful to Teddy, and continue the backwards hopping ritual, then when you die you'll go to a place called Happyworld. In Happyworld, everyone's happy. Good stuff happens. It's great. It's your reward for following the very important backwards hopping ritual. Yes. Oh, and nobody can verify the existence of Happyworld either, but it's there.
Now you may be wondering how I know all this. After all, I've already said that nobody comes back from Slugworld or Happyworld to confirm what I've said. Teddy made it that way for a reason. The way I know all this to be fact is that I read it in a book which was written a long time ago. So you see it must be true. All that nonsense about evolution and scientific fact was just made up by someone to belittle the memory of Teddy and to corrupt the minds of his devoted followers.
In the book I told you about, they spoke of a guy called Aafuss who came to Earth to preach the word of Teddy. Apparently he was the son of Teddy, but I'm still a little unclear on how that happened as Teddy isn't a tangible being. Anyway, the book says that Aafuss was really nice and caring, but at the end of the story he gets killed. I think they're making a movie of it with George Cloony as Aafuss.
Teddy be with you.
Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Those Christians amongst you probably find what I've just said to be extremely offensive. If you take a step back and look at your religion though, hopefully you'll realise that what I've said is pretty much exactly what Christians have been trying to get me to believe for my whole life.
The Bible is a story. Granted, it's a pretty good story for its time and it teaches a lot of important values which contribute toward a well-structured civilisation, but most of those values are so integral to being a human now that we don't need to be taught them in such an elaborate way, and it's still just a story. Let's just hope that 2000 years in the future we don't have legions of crazed fanatics running around preaching the word of J.K. Rowling and following the example of the great Harry Potter...
I decided that I'm going to create my own religion. It revolves around worshipping a being you can't see, hear or feel, but he's still there. His name is Teddy. I know that's his name because I read it in an old book somewhere.
Now the rules of this religion are simple. If you don't walk backwards and hop on one leg at least twice a day, then when you die you'll go to a place called Slugworld. In Slugworld, everyone is a slug and every so often it rains salt. It's never quite enough salt to kill you, but it'll hurt. Of course, nobody who has gone to Slugworld can verify what I'm telling you because they're slugs now, and they can't talk. Also, nobody knows where Slugworld is, so there's no way to prove it to you.
All isn't lost however. If you're faithful to Teddy, and continue the backwards hopping ritual, then when you die you'll go to a place called Happyworld. In Happyworld, everyone's happy. Good stuff happens. It's great. It's your reward for following the very important backwards hopping ritual. Yes. Oh, and nobody can verify the existence of Happyworld either, but it's there.
Now you may be wondering how I know all this. After all, I've already said that nobody comes back from Slugworld or Happyworld to confirm what I've said. Teddy made it that way for a reason. The way I know all this to be fact is that I read it in a book which was written a long time ago. So you see it must be true. All that nonsense about evolution and scientific fact was just made up by someone to belittle the memory of Teddy and to corrupt the minds of his devoted followers.
In the book I told you about, they spoke of a guy called Aafuss who came to Earth to preach the word of Teddy. Apparently he was the son of Teddy, but I'm still a little unclear on how that happened as Teddy isn't a tangible being. Anyway, the book says that Aafuss was really nice and caring, but at the end of the story he gets killed. I think they're making a movie of it with George Cloony as Aafuss.
Teddy be with you.
Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Those Christians amongst you probably find what I've just said to be extremely offensive. If you take a step back and look at your religion though, hopefully you'll realise that what I've said is pretty much exactly what Christians have been trying to get me to believe for my whole life.
The Bible is a story. Granted, it's a pretty good story for its time and it teaches a lot of important values which contribute toward a well-structured civilisation, but most of those values are so integral to being a human now that we don't need to be taught them in such an elaborate way, and it's still just a story. Let's just hope that 2000 years in the future we don't have legions of crazed fanatics running around preaching the word of J.K. Rowling and following the example of the great Harry Potter...
joetheblow
Reply #49 Thursday, May 1, 2003 3:43 AM
Reply #49 Thursday, May 1, 2003 3:43 AM
Not Teddy!!!
anyway... this is where the explaining gets a little hard.
Those things are not just things.
It doens't matter who made those things (table, chair, sofa) it still works under the laws of this universe. Therefore part of this universe.
Did you know we are made of stars? Almost every chemical or element on this planet including us can be derived from the sun this planet orbits. A sun that realise on the laws of this universe.
I think the word 'god' is loaded full of expectations and wants. What I am saying is that God is the laws and systems that govern this universe that we all are a part of.
Now that would mean that God is a thing. NOT a person. Not a place, yet a noun.
People who have faith believe God is a person who thinks and acts. But even if you do not have faith, in a sense God is still there, but is just a thing. Like your Teddy.
A rose by any other name... it is still a object with the same properties of matter called whatever you wish to.
anyway... this is where the explaining gets a little hard.
Those things are not just things.
It doens't matter who made those things (table, chair, sofa) it still works under the laws of this universe. Therefore part of this universe.
Did you know we are made of stars? Almost every chemical or element on this planet including us can be derived from the sun this planet orbits. A sun that realise on the laws of this universe.
I think the word 'god' is loaded full of expectations and wants. What I am saying is that God is the laws and systems that govern this universe that we all are a part of.
Now that would mean that God is a thing. NOT a person. Not a place, yet a noun.
People who have faith believe God is a person who thinks and acts. But even if you do not have faith, in a sense God is still there, but is just a thing. Like your Teddy.
A rose by any other name... it is still a object with the same properties of matter called whatever you wish to.
joetheblow
Reply #50 Thursday, May 1, 2003 3:47 AM
Reply #50 Thursday, May 1, 2003 3:47 AM
Evolution?? Ha!
that is not in the Bible or the Karan or what ever else... or is it???
1600 so odd pages of what is believed to have all the universe explained in it. Yet humanbeing somehow understand it all?
Nope. 1000 years from now soebody will say, hey that is in the Bible. To bad we have to kill those who know it because in the Bibble it says so from the new trasnlation.
that is not in the Bible or the Karan or what ever else... or is it???
1600 so odd pages of what is believed to have all the universe explained in it. Yet humanbeing somehow understand it all?
Nope. 1000 years from now soebody will say, hey that is in the Bible. To bad we have to kill those who know it because in the Bibble it says so from the new trasnlation.
joetheblow
Reply #51 Thursday, May 1, 2003 4:01 AM
Reply #51 Thursday, May 1, 2003 4:01 AM
remember, god is a loaded word. full of emotion, ideas and other stuff people think of.
what I am trying to do is separate the god that is the universe that makes up everything 9key word is thing) and the God that people have faith in that actually thinks and feels (like a human being or a person)
the funny thing is that whether you have faith or not the 'god' still made you. as an essembaly of this universe you are part of it and fall under the laws within it. the point is if you believe in a god that she thinks and feels and changes with what happens to you that is Faith. (because you really don't know if it is true or not)
Knowing that the universe is your god because you are made of it and fall under its laws is how allot of people live evryday. it doesn't mean anythin because it is 'normal'.
It is normal to walk outside and know that your not going to fly away into outerspace. or 2 + 2 = 4
it is faith that make you believe that you could fly into outerspace (and live) because God wanted you to.
what I am trying to do is separate the god that is the universe that makes up everything 9key word is thing) and the God that people have faith in that actually thinks and feels (like a human being or a person)
the funny thing is that whether you have faith or not the 'god' still made you. as an essembaly of this universe you are part of it and fall under the laws within it. the point is if you believe in a god that she thinks and feels and changes with what happens to you that is Faith. (because you really don't know if it is true or not)
Knowing that the universe is your god because you are made of it and fall under its laws is how allot of people live evryday. it doesn't mean anythin because it is 'normal'.
It is normal to walk outside and know that your not going to fly away into outerspace. or 2 + 2 = 4
it is faith that make you believe that you could fly into outerspace (and live) because God wanted you to.
grayhaze
Reply #52 Thursday, May 1, 2003 5:50 AM
Reply #52 Thursday, May 1, 2003 5:50 AM
I'd agree entirely with the idea that we are all made out of the same matter, and that we are governed by the laws of the universe, but to call the universe God is a little off-centre. You can't just say 'I'll call this thing God, and that proves that God exists.'
The whole concept of God is that he is an omnipotent being with the power to affect the universe beyond the simple laws of physics. It's that concept that I find laughable, and that concept is the basis for the majority of the world's major religions in one form or another.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; religion is the creation of mankind to offer some purpose to what is otherwise a simple fluke of science. As a species, we seem to find it hard to believe that we weren't created for a particular purpose.
The whole concept of God is that he is an omnipotent being with the power to affect the universe beyond the simple laws of physics. It's that concept that I find laughable, and that concept is the basis for the majority of the world's major religions in one form or another.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; religion is the creation of mankind to offer some purpose to what is otherwise a simple fluke of science. As a species, we seem to find it hard to believe that we weren't created for a particular purpose.
EventHorizon
Reply #53 Thursday, May 1, 2003 6:20 AM
Reply #53 Thursday, May 1, 2003 6:20 AM
The word "Christian" has less meaning than it used to...ie...Back in the middle ages, (Before Luther's 'Reformation') everyone was Catholic. There were no Methodists, Baptists, Lutherans, Mormans (The politically correct name: 'Church of Jesus Christ and Latter-day Saints') or the so-called 'Non-Denominational' churches...So, if you say 'Christian', you could state exactly which type of Christian. (Or to which church you belong or whatever) Also to DM...I dont think the is the right place for posting Bible-quotes...Especially 'anti-gay' stuff...Yes this is a religious 'Debate' (I just love quotes) but IMHO, you're getting slightly off-topic.
Jess McGuay
Reply #54 Thursday, May 1, 2003 6:40 AM
Reply #54 Thursday, May 1, 2003 6:40 AM
Its not the path, but the Journey upon the one you choose that matters in my book. If one takes the stance that GOD (in whatever name you choose) is everywhere then any path you choose he will be there and its what you do while following your path for which you may be judged. Live your life as best you can and with compasion and care for others and I do not see how you can be condemmed. Take your path and bring wreck and ruin along for the ride and then you must answer for that. The Soul, Ka, or Spirit devlopes by our actions and thoughts, harbor darkness and you become it, harbor love and care and thus you become that as well.
Basically no matter what the "Golden Rule" is the best way to live. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
Basically no matter what the "Golden Rule" is the best way to live. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
BoXXi
Reply #55 Thursday, May 1, 2003 7:03 AM
Reply #55 Thursday, May 1, 2003 7:03 AM
It seems to me that most of the stuff people post here is just the result of indoctrination from a very young age. I'm kind of glad that I wasn't subjected to that kind of cruelty, and allowed to be a free thinker and reach my own conclusions about life, the universe, and everything. I believe religion is a kind of cruelty, as it stifles people. And I only have to look at the atrocities performed in the name of religion to know that it's not something I want to be involved in. I'm too intelligent to be hoodwinked into believing all that god nonsense.
werewolf
Reply #56 Thursday, May 1, 2003 8:12 AM
Reply #56 Thursday, May 1, 2003 8:12 AM
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That's what I teach my kids. That's how I life my life. It pretty much covers everything.
joetheblow
Reply #59 Thursday, May 1, 2003 8:57 AM
Reply #59 Thursday, May 1, 2003 8:57 AM
ahhhh ha... maybe it is how I am writing it but I to said religion is not faith. religion is practiced acts in repetition possibily to help with your faith, but it is not a replacement of it or the basis.
I'm telling you guys, god is a very loaded word. it brings on allot of feeling and emotion. so when you think about how little we know about the universe and what it can do, it is funny how we can say I know it is or it isn't a thining being who is doing this.
I don'tknow either. what I do know is that we belong in this universe. what ever effects us is by the laws of this universe. this universe is our god. Not god in a person, but god in a thing. Just regular laws that we all fall under, whether it was on perpose or not.
THEN... if you have faith that od is not a thing that just happened to excist, that is when you have faith.
joetheblow sees the eyes open of all who visit the message board and if joetheblow was very religist and people didn't follow then death would rain from the skies
Religion... follow me or die
Faith... gee I hope I am right about this.
One is aggressive and another is passive.
I'm telling you guys, god is a very loaded word. it brings on allot of feeling and emotion. so when you think about how little we know about the universe and what it can do, it is funny how we can say I know it is or it isn't a thining being who is doing this.
I don'tknow either. what I do know is that we belong in this universe. what ever effects us is by the laws of this universe. this universe is our god. Not god in a person, but god in a thing. Just regular laws that we all fall under, whether it was on perpose or not.
THEN... if you have faith that od is not a thing that just happened to excist, that is when you have faith.
joetheblow sees the eyes open of all who visit the message board and if joetheblow was very religist and people didn't follow then death would rain from the skies
Religion... follow me or die
Faith... gee I hope I am right about this.
One is aggressive and another is passive.
joetheblow
Reply #60 Thursday, May 1, 2003 9:00 AM
Reply #60 Thursday, May 1, 2003 9:00 AM
think of it this way. if you were talking to another culture and they said god is the physical laws of nature and God was a being of all mighty power.
you would say there is no god. but they are taking about 2 different meanins.
you would say there is no god. but they are taking about 2 different meanins.
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Reply #41 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 8:47 PM
I don't force my views on anyone. At least I try not to
I try to lead a good life which includes helping others in need. But I fall short in this area as I may not due bad things in my life but I don't go out of my way to help others as much as I should. Something I need to work on.
I can't fix other people. I can't condemn other people. The best that I can do is teach them about Jesus to the best of my abilities when asked or to teach by example.
I am not perfect and do not claim to be. Well, okay, sometimes I claim to be