T-Man's Religous Debate for Doreen
Wednesday, April 30, 2003 by T-Man | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
My God is right and your god is wrong. Unless of course your god is the same as my God. But in either case, I am right.
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Doreen
Reply #22 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 12:37 PM
Reply #22 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 12:37 PM
I prob could have read the Bible through 100 X's if I read it as much as I read these blasted msg boards in bet work sheesh! what is my problem? hehe
dan.wright
Reply #23 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 12:40 PM
Reply #23 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 12:40 PM
As one who was born and raised in the *Christian* church, and not to repeat what anyone else has already said, but I get sick of being condemned by others of the same faith because I don't conform 100% to their belief structure. Or, with others of the same faith condemning those who don't feel the same as they do, ie non-christians. I kind of look at it like, "I have my belief, you have your belief and that's that, deal with it."
I still go to church, but I also still have a beer with my meal everynight, I occassionally curse and I don't do the things those in the pious religious right would want you to do. Do I still think I'm a christian, yes I do, but just because I don't live my life by the same standards doesn't make my any less of a christian than the next guy. Each individual has their weaknesses, but your weakness doesn't mean that I can't do it, as it's not my weakness and vice versa.
After 29 years in the church, I still really struggle with organized religion and how people, both inside and out, are treated. If it's truly all about love and respect, then why don't people really do the things the bible teaches.
Anyway, I'm rambling, good and touchy subject though.
ps - Excellent point Brad, should be pretty obvious today that society has evolved a little bit since Leviticus was written.
I still go to church, but I also still have a beer with my meal everynight, I occassionally curse and I don't do the things those in the pious religious right would want you to do. Do I still think I'm a christian, yes I do, but just because I don't live my life by the same standards doesn't make my any less of a christian than the next guy. Each individual has their weaknesses, but your weakness doesn't mean that I can't do it, as it's not my weakness and vice versa.
After 29 years in the church, I still really struggle with organized religion and how people, both inside and out, are treated. If it's truly all about love and respect, then why don't people really do the things the bible teaches.
Anyway, I'm rambling, good and touchy subject though.
ps - Excellent point Brad, should be pretty obvious today that society has evolved a little bit since Leviticus was written.
pjpowell
Reply #24 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 12:50 PM
Reply #24 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 12:50 PM
Thanks mooshoo. I think I lost that point in there somewhere.
spinal
Reply #25 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:07 PM
Reply #25 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:07 PM
those who dont beleive, how does this idea grab you?
(In no way indended to offend those who are religious)
I am GOD, for the following reason -
weather you beleive or not, it has been shown that there exists hidden texts withing the old testiment (origional hebrew) whitch seems to predict many world events over the past 3000 years, before you deny this, have a quick net search for 'bible code', many people refuse to beleive this, usually until they hear of something predicet in the bible, found before the event, that actually happens, on a few occasions this has happened.
anyway, to find this code, a computer was needed/used, the code is a very simple one, as we know, god dictated the bible to moses, and as usual in hebrew, with no punctuation, word spacing or formatting of any kind.
so you take a letter X places from the start, cound X places (the same X) and take that letter, and keep going, using this method, sentensed can be found within the texts, major assasinations and the likes. you find someones name, format the letters of the texts in a grid, so that the name appears together (without removing anything) then around or through that name, you will find key words to do with that person, wordsearch style.
So, what is he rambling on about?
You cant predict 3000 years of future, not accuratly enough to give names dates and places, but you can however record 3000 years of history very accuratly. thats the key.
to code all of this information into some passages of text, you would need some very sofisticated software, to take a paragraph of text, and arrange the words in such a way, that the hidden information is obtainable with the origional paragraph not being reduced to a bunch of jibberish, some sort of theosorous software shoud help, to replace text with different text that means the same thing. but how are we going to make thises texts last so long that we find the code anyway? what do people hold most of all? religoin, we'll put the text in a holy book!
anyway, now we have a fare idea how to do such a task, we hav hidden our history notes in a whole bunch of stories designed to explain evolution to our anccestors, reading it normally tells us how to live our lives, how the earch came about, and all of that, when we find the hidden code, it tells us other stuff.
so, in the future, when time travel comes about (dont say its impossible, not so long ago, earth being round was impossible, travelling faster than 100mph was impossible etc.) you go back to 3000 years ago, and read this book, letter by letter, no spacing or formating, to this moses guy, explaning that you are god, and that these texts should be kept for all time)
so my point is - I came up with the idea, the bible will be based on my ideas, so technically I will write it, so i am god.
make sense?
(In no way indended to offend those who are religious)
I am GOD, for the following reason -
weather you beleive or not, it has been shown that there exists hidden texts withing the old testiment (origional hebrew) whitch seems to predict many world events over the past 3000 years, before you deny this, have a quick net search for 'bible code', many people refuse to beleive this, usually until they hear of something predicet in the bible, found before the event, that actually happens, on a few occasions this has happened.
anyway, to find this code, a computer was needed/used, the code is a very simple one, as we know, god dictated the bible to moses, and as usual in hebrew, with no punctuation, word spacing or formatting of any kind.
so you take a letter X places from the start, cound X places (the same X) and take that letter, and keep going, using this method, sentensed can be found within the texts, major assasinations and the likes. you find someones name, format the letters of the texts in a grid, so that the name appears together (without removing anything) then around or through that name, you will find key words to do with that person, wordsearch style.
So, what is he rambling on about?
You cant predict 3000 years of future, not accuratly enough to give names dates and places, but you can however record 3000 years of history very accuratly. thats the key.
to code all of this information into some passages of text, you would need some very sofisticated software, to take a paragraph of text, and arrange the words in such a way, that the hidden information is obtainable with the origional paragraph not being reduced to a bunch of jibberish, some sort of theosorous software shoud help, to replace text with different text that means the same thing. but how are we going to make thises texts last so long that we find the code anyway? what do people hold most of all? religoin, we'll put the text in a holy book!
anyway, now we have a fare idea how to do such a task, we hav hidden our history notes in a whole bunch of stories designed to explain evolution to our anccestors, reading it normally tells us how to live our lives, how the earch came about, and all of that, when we find the hidden code, it tells us other stuff.
so, in the future, when time travel comes about (dont say its impossible, not so long ago, earth being round was impossible, travelling faster than 100mph was impossible etc.) you go back to 3000 years ago, and read this book, letter by letter, no spacing or formating, to this moses guy, explaning that you are god, and that these texts should be kept for all time)
so my point is - I came up with the idea, the bible will be based on my ideas, so technically I will write it, so i am god.
make sense?
T-Man
Reply #26 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:12 PM
Reply #26 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:12 PM
three_4me, Yes its unfortunate that so many people will condemn others for not having the exact same beliefs. And I probably suspect that if one has experiencing this behavior from others over and over you tend to get defensive on the subject.
I'm not saying this is you but I could see how some people who feel the same as you could misinterpet somones desire to communicate their beliefs with you as a codemnation on your beliefs. I guess it is all in their approach on how they express their thoughts and how those thoughts are received. Interpetation. Now thats an ugly word.
Of course we all sin. And its not up to us to decide who's sin is greater. A sin is a sin. I believe that if we try to better ourselves and help those who are in need that we are on the correct path.
I'm not saying this is you but I could see how some people who feel the same as you could misinterpet somones desire to communicate their beliefs with you as a codemnation on your beliefs. I guess it is all in their approach on how they express their thoughts and how those thoughts are received. Interpetation. Now thats an ugly word.
Of course we all sin. And its not up to us to decide who's sin is greater. A sin is a sin. I believe that if we try to better ourselves and help those who are in need that we are on the correct path.
grayhaze
Reply #27 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:31 PM
Reply #27 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:31 PM
Religion is equivalent to brainwashing on a global scale, and revolves around invoking fear in those who don't follow a set of rules which aren't applicable to a civilisation as advanced as ours. It doesn't matter what religion you follow as they all revolve around the same principle of 'do this my way, or you'll go to a bad place for eternity'.
I was brought up a Christian, and yet still somehow managed to see through what I believe to be an education flawed on so many levels. I have Christian friends, and while they claim themselves to be good Christians they continue to 'break the rules' on a daily basis. It is my experience that those who place their faith in a higher power forget to make decisions for themselves or take responsibility for their actions.
I'll never be converted to any religion, as I'm confident enough in myself not to need an imaginary friend to fall back on. You may consider that an offensive comment, but as a non-believer I consider all those people who talk about my lack of faith as being a bad thing to be equally offensive. There's nothing that gets my back up more than a person who considers it their duty to try and force their beliefs on another because they consider that person to be lacking somehow.
I've had many discussions on religion and the finer points of Christianity with my friends, and nothing they have ever said has made me the slightest bit unsure of my own beliefs. I find it quite amusing that you can have people who refuse to believe something without absolute tangible proof, and then go off to church to devote their time to something they have absolutely no proof exists.
At a stretch, I'd say there is a God. This God isn't a single omnipotent power who has control over every aspect of existence however, but rather the voice inside each and every one of us which guides us toward making the distiction between right and wrong. If you don't believe in yourself, then you're truly doomed to a bad place.
I was brought up a Christian, and yet still somehow managed to see through what I believe to be an education flawed on so many levels. I have Christian friends, and while they claim themselves to be good Christians they continue to 'break the rules' on a daily basis. It is my experience that those who place their faith in a higher power forget to make decisions for themselves or take responsibility for their actions.
I'll never be converted to any religion, as I'm confident enough in myself not to need an imaginary friend to fall back on. You may consider that an offensive comment, but as a non-believer I consider all those people who talk about my lack of faith as being a bad thing to be equally offensive. There's nothing that gets my back up more than a person who considers it their duty to try and force their beliefs on another because they consider that person to be lacking somehow.
I've had many discussions on religion and the finer points of Christianity with my friends, and nothing they have ever said has made me the slightest bit unsure of my own beliefs. I find it quite amusing that you can have people who refuse to believe something without absolute tangible proof, and then go off to church to devote their time to something they have absolutely no proof exists.
At a stretch, I'd say there is a God. This God isn't a single omnipotent power who has control over every aspect of existence however, but rather the voice inside each and every one of us which guides us toward making the distiction between right and wrong. If you don't believe in yourself, then you're truly doomed to a bad place.
dan.wright
Reply #28 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:37 PM
Reply #28 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:37 PM
T-Man, Who decides what is sin though? I interpret Romans 14 and 1 Cor. 10 as Paul stating that one, you shouldn't do something that will cause another man to stumble and two, that what is wrong for me to do, may not be wrong for you and vice versa. I have been condemned a lot because I drink and I just don't get this. I've never been drunk in my entire life, I just have a drink or two and that's it. Now, person A may have a personal conviction about drinking, but does that give them the right to condemn person B because they don't have this same conviction.
If I do sound a little upset or defensive, that's not my intent, I just get very frustrated with the church and the things I've seen throughout the course of my life. Maybe it's because I'm a preacher's kid, who knows.
Excellent point by the way in stating that some people are probably not intentionally condemning, could just be poor communication. Perhaps I should try to discern this a little better and it will help decrease the level of bitterness I maintain.
late
If I do sound a little upset or defensive, that's not my intent, I just get very frustrated with the church and the things I've seen throughout the course of my life. Maybe it's because I'm a preacher's kid, who knows.
Excellent point by the way in stating that some people are probably not intentionally condemning, could just be poor communication. Perhaps I should try to discern this a little better and it will help decrease the level of bitterness I maintain.
late
dan.wright
Reply #29 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:43 PM
Reply #29 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:43 PM
grayhaze ... You know, having been raised in the church, I pretty much think you just stated it beautifully.
Go to church and you'll be happy. Go away from church and you'll be sad.
Am I bitter?
late
Go to church and you'll be happy. Go away from church and you'll be sad.
Am I bitter?
late
pjpowell
Reply #30 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:46 PM
Reply #30 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:46 PM
The Church of Jesus Christ and the 'Organised Church' are often entirely different things. Remember Jesus attitude to the then 'Church' leaders as it were. They had become too bound up in the rules and had lost site of the ruler (God).
dan.wright
Reply #31 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 3:28 PM
Reply #31 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 3:28 PM
From my experience I've yet to find a church that hasn't lost site of their God. Unfortunately (and this is probably only my experience) I have generally seen a building full of people where one man, not God, is doing the directing and asking for peoples funds. The people don't serve their *God* per se, but rather they serve their church, they give their money and they are happy.
I understand completely Jesus' frustration with the Church during that time, just as Paul was frustrated as seen through his letters and just as John was when writing Revelations. Well, maybe John wasn't frustrated, but he does speak directly to some problems in the church at Ephesus. Seems to be a pattern their that no solution has yet to be found.
Just my two cents.
late
I understand completely Jesus' frustration with the Church during that time, just as Paul was frustrated as seen through his letters and just as John was when writing Revelations. Well, maybe John wasn't frustrated, but he does speak directly to some problems in the church at Ephesus. Seems to be a pattern their that no solution has yet to be found.
Just my two cents.
late
Jafo
Reply #32 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 3:42 PM
Reply #32 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 3:42 PM
Blessed are the Cheese Makers...
The Greeks shall inherit the earth...
Why is it I prefer Python's view of religion?....
The Greeks shall inherit the earth...
Why is it I prefer Python's view of religion?....
pjpowell
Reply #33 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 3:52 PM
Reply #33 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 3:52 PM
oi! That's taking it off topic.
now run along or I shall say Ni!
God bless you anyway
now run along or I shall say Ni!
God bless you anyway
Jafo
Reply #34 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 3:55 PM
Reply #34 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 3:55 PM
No...it ain't 'off-topic'...I prefer Religion laced with humour.
The Doomsayers, etc...the fire and brimstone brigade are what ruins religion for the rest...
The Doomsayers, etc...the fire and brimstone brigade are what ruins religion for the rest...
Bangkokboy
Reply #36 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 6:30 PM
Reply #36 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 6:30 PM
God has no tolerance for religion, mixed with humor or anything else. 
religion is about what man thinks, feels, and does to earn merit and feel good about himself. Christianity is a relationship wound around the fact that no man has merit, but God wanted him in eternity enough to go to great sacrificial length to get him there. religion is man-centered. Christianity is God-centered.
"For we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousnesses are like filthy rags in His sight." -Isaiah 64:6 So much for God's opinion of religion.
bkb steps off the soapbox, sprays the office air with rose flavored religion repellent, and ducks away to greener threads.
religion is about what man thinks, feels, and does to earn merit and feel good about himself. Christianity is a relationship wound around the fact that no man has merit, but God wanted him in eternity enough to go to great sacrificial length to get him there. religion is man-centered. Christianity is God-centered. "For we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousnesses are like filthy rags in His sight." -Isaiah 64:6 So much for God's opinion of religion.
bkb steps off the soapbox, sprays the office air with rose flavored religion repellent, and ducks away to greener threads.
SuperheroCanadian
Reply #37 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 6:43 PM
Reply #37 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 6:43 PM
i agree with greyhaze on this he stated it perfect. I wont belive in most things without proff, and am not willing to devote myself to soemthing im being forced on by my peers. Religion is very closed minded.
I try to stay away from religion in all ways, and at my school i end up getting into arguements trying to defend myself, and when my "christian friends" try and defend themselves they give me the "Belive in this or go to H***" speel. Follow the good path and good things happen to you. We are all in control of our own lives, if we do something wrong we do it, no other "higher" power is going to come and save you.
/rant off
bkb where do i get some of that repellent seems like i could use some
I try to stay away from religion in all ways, and at my school i end up getting into arguements trying to defend myself, and when my "christian friends" try and defend themselves they give me the "Belive in this or go to H***" speel. Follow the good path and good things happen to you. We are all in control of our own lives, if we do something wrong we do it, no other "higher" power is going to come and save you.
/rant off
bkb where do i get some of that repellent seems like i could use some
Bangkokboy
Reply #38 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 7:04 PM
Reply #38 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 7:04 PM
it's right across the aisle from the incense. 
- but it sounds like you're after something more heavy duty, SHC.
- but it sounds like you're after something more heavy duty, SHC.
Lady_Akasha
Reply #39 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 7:27 PM
Reply #39 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 7:27 PM
Dogma:
An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true.
This is where the problem lies with organized religion.
Each faith believes, there's is the ONLY way. They are right, the rest are wrong. It's funny how much the world has advanced and evolved, and yet in the area of religion it really hasn't evolved 'that' much. There is still lack of acceptance and respect for religions outside of the trad-christian. Far too many are trying to save other's from themselves, and the burning pits of H(*& rather than just trying to be the best person they can.
Doesn't matter who your God, Gods, or Goddess is as long as it leads to goodness... baby that is all that counts
An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true.
This is where the problem lies with organized religion.
Each faith believes, there's is the ONLY way. They are right, the rest are wrong. It's funny how much the world has advanced and evolved, and yet in the area of religion it really hasn't evolved 'that' much. There is still lack of acceptance and respect for religions outside of the trad-christian. Far too many are trying to save other's from themselves, and the burning pits of H(*& rather than just trying to be the best person they can.
Doesn't matter who your God, Gods, or Goddess is as long as it leads to goodness... baby that is all that counts
SuperheroCanadian
Reply #40 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 8:33 PM
Reply #40 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 8:33 PM
SuperheroCanadian walks in with pine tree around neck
found this in the automitve isle seems to work pretty well
found this in the automitve isle seems to work pretty well
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Reply #21 Wednesday, April 30, 2003 12:36 PM
what many people don't realize is most of the time when people share their religious beliefs they do it because they care... not because they are looking down at you or trying to make you feal like an idiot. If they didn't care about you, why would they take the time to explain their life-held views?