Quick Question to all dem designers......
Sunday, April 20, 2003 by DMX143637 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Wot programs does everyone use???
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bakerstreet
Reply #22 Monday, April 21, 2003 4:07 PM
Reply #22 Monday, April 21, 2003 4:07 PM
Photoshop has had the ability to use channels, curves, and path shapes since 5.0. A solid understanding of paths, curves and channels gives you all the vector-style capabilities you need to make static images. I mean, you have to use tools to make the shapes in a vector app as well, right? 
I have found that 'vector' graphics as concept are something that most people don't need. They are based on mathmatically defined shapes. That is handy when you need to scale graphics, or animate or morph the finished work.
Beyond that, if you are gonna use the image for a wallaper, skin, etc., you are gonna have to rasterize it to make it a jpg or bmp, and all the benefits of the vector abilities are gone. I can see possibilites using vector shapes to flesh out the initial shape of the skin, but as I said, paths and channels can do as good a job, without an extra app.
The last wallpaper I made had 97 layers when I finished. A complex skin can have just as many. *IF* vector apps have am advantage in intitial design, I dunno if it is beneficial to trade that for the robust capabilities of raster apps when you are making the final rasterized images.
I have found that 'vector' graphics as concept are something that most people don't need. They are based on mathmatically defined shapes. That is handy when you need to scale graphics, or animate or morph the finished work.
Beyond that, if you are gonna use the image for a wallaper, skin, etc., you are gonna have to rasterize it to make it a jpg or bmp, and all the benefits of the vector abilities are gone. I can see possibilites using vector shapes to flesh out the initial shape of the skin, but as I said, paths and channels can do as good a job, without an extra app.
The last wallpaper I made had 97 layers when I finished. A complex skin can have just as many. *IF* vector apps have am advantage in intitial design, I dunno if it is beneficial to trade that for the robust capabilities of raster apps when you are making the final rasterized images.
grayhaze
Reply #23 Monday, April 21, 2003 4:35 PM
Reply #23 Monday, April 21, 2003 4:35 PM
Each to their own bakerstreet. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I still stick to my guns and say that Fireworks rules for intricate skinning where vectors really help out, whilst retaining the functionality of a decent bitmap app. If I were to ever try making a wallpaper, I'd probably use Photoshop. Until that time though, Fireworks is my skinning tool of choice.
bakerstreet
Reply #24 Monday, April 21, 2003 4:47 PM
Reply #24 Monday, April 21, 2003 4:47 PM
Yup. I guess what I am foggy about is how vector shapes help you with skinning. I've done a lot more skinning than wallpaper making, and I've never had the urge. I'd be interested in knowing how you do it.
moshi
Reply #25 Monday, April 21, 2003 4:52 PM
Reply #25 Monday, April 21, 2003 4:52 PM
interesting points grayhaze. i just started to imagine how vector graphics can be used for skinning ... and it clicked. could be cool for doing all the various buttons.
paxx
Reply #27 Monday, April 21, 2003 5:02 PM
Reply #27 Monday, April 21, 2003 5:02 PM
I don't know about skins, but I've seen Mormegil use Corel to make icons, and I'm impressed. But a good point with icons is that in vector format, you can resize them without quality loss.
But for skin, dunno, but to each his own.
Looking forward to the day where skins will be in vectors though. Lite and better quality. Like Mac OS X, I guess. Gotta give Apple its due on that one.
But for skin, dunno, but to each his own.
Looking forward to the day where skins will be in vectors though. Lite and better quality. Like Mac OS X, I guess. Gotta give Apple its due on that one.
moshi
Reply #28 Monday, April 21, 2003 5:03 PM
Reply #28 Monday, April 21, 2003 5:03 PM
imagine a close button (red filled circle with a white X on it). when you import this from Illustrator at tiny size (for Winamp2 for example) you will get crisper result than doing the same in Photoshop.
moshi
Reply #29 Monday, April 21, 2003 5:05 PM
Reply #29 Monday, April 21, 2003 5:05 PM
paxx: both KDE and Gnome/Nautilus support vector graphics (SVG) for icons. also a step into the right direction.
bakerstreet
Reply #30 Monday, April 21, 2003 5:36 PM
Reply #30 Monday, April 21, 2003 5:36 PM
Moshi: yeah, i can see that. Since you don't have 'pixels' per se, you don't have realistic shadows or gradients, so you would only be able to scale before you rasterized the image. Once you dodge/burn the lighting and shadow on something like an 'Aqua' style button, you are stuck with pixelation when you resize as always.
If you were doing something that had a cell-shaded or non-realistic style it would work, and a lot of the most popular stuff is. I can see how it would be helpful in laying out the skin to begin with as well.
To each his own.
If you were doing something that had a cell-shaded or non-realistic style it would work, and a lot of the most popular stuff is. I can see how it would be helpful in laying out the skin to begin with as well.
To each his own.
grayhaze
Reply #31 Tuesday, April 22, 2003 3:02 PM
Reply #31 Tuesday, April 22, 2003 3:02 PM
That's exactly why I like Fireworks bakerstreet. I can keep the elements of my skin as freely editable vector shapes, but use bitmap effects such as shadows at the same time. As you edit the vectors, the effects update in realtime.
Take a look at my WindowBlinds skins. They were all made in Fireworks using vector shapes with various blends and shadow effects. If I decide I want to go in an change the size or shape of any elements of the skin, I can do so instantly without having to recreate things from scratch. The same applies to changing colour schemes.
I then don't need to do anything extra to 'rasterize' the vectors as images are exported in exactly the same way as you would from Photoshop. I guess I just like to have detailed control over every element of a design from start to finish, and not have to revert back to an old save just to get the shape of a button back the way it was.
Take a look at my WindowBlinds skins. They were all made in Fireworks using vector shapes with various blends and shadow effects. If I decide I want to go in an change the size or shape of any elements of the skin, I can do so instantly without having to recreate things from scratch. The same applies to changing colour schemes.
I then don't need to do anything extra to 'rasterize' the vectors as images are exported in exactly the same way as you would from Photoshop. I guess I just like to have detailed control over every element of a design from start to finish, and not have to revert back to an old save just to get the shape of a button back the way it was.
bakerstreet
Reply #32 Tuesday, April 22, 2003 4:00 PM
Reply #32 Tuesday, April 22, 2003 4:00 PM
Grey: yup, with the kind of graphics you are making, that would work. All the gradients you use are within the ability of vector graphics, so you only have to rasterize when you save the images. For stuff that is more realistic, though, one would have to rasterize long before. Because of this, I keep all my shapes stored as either vector paths or shapes in a separate channel. Same difference, really.
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Reply #21 Monday, April 21, 2003 3:16 PM