Are people affraid to leave negative comments? And should the bar be raised?
Sunday, March 23, 2003 by Aaron W. | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I've been browsing the WindowBlinds skins for a while now, and have noticed that a good amount of them are very poorly done. The previews reveal graphical and alignment errors galore, and yet somehow they were still added to the collection. What struck me as odd were the comments on these skins. They were all positive about them as a parent is to her 2 year old child about his/her drawing of a house and a tree (which I can understand; he or she is 2 years old).
I have seen skins which almost appear to be farces. As if to step as close the line as possible before the Wincustomize skin-approving dudes just have to say "there's no way in heck this can be added to the WB skin library..."
So what is it? Are people afraid to tell these authors that they need to practice more, and ask them NOT to post every piece of work they create in the process?
I just find it strange that the skins aren't compared against the same standards as the wallpapers. I've had a few wallpapers rejected before, and I believed them to be far less unattractive than many of the skins which made it through the overly-porous sifter.
So does anyone agree that the bar should be raised for WB skins?
I have seen skins which almost appear to be farces. As if to step as close the line as possible before the Wincustomize skin-approving dudes just have to say "there's no way in heck this can be added to the WB skin library..."
So what is it? Are people afraid to tell these authors that they need to practice more, and ask them NOT to post every piece of work they create in the process?
I just find it strange that the skins aren't compared against the same standards as the wallpapers. I've had a few wallpapers rejected before, and I believed them to be far less unattractive than many of the skins which made it through the overly-porous sifter.
So does anyone agree that the bar should be raised for WB skins?
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moshi
Reply #62 Monday, March 24, 2003 9:26 AM
Reply #62 Monday, March 24, 2003 9:26 AM
Jafo: as Aaron i was speaking about contructive critisizm. that´s something i appreciate much more than a "good job" comment.
i can go through the Winamp section at dA to find more. of course it has to be Winamp, more skinners means more talented people - the Gauss curve. i just named one, because kai was the first that came in mind, but at least you seem to agree with me on that particular one. if you want a list i can post one tomorrow night (GMT).
i can go through the Winamp section at dA to find more. of course it has to be Winamp, more skinners means more talented people - the Gauss curve. i just named one, because kai was the first that came in mind, but at least you seem to agree with me on that particular one. if you want a list i can post one tomorrow night (GMT).
PrincessHirmer5167
Reply #63 Monday, March 24, 2003 9:52 AM
Reply #63 Monday, March 24, 2003 9:52 AM
Are you Simon from "American Idol"?.... 
Every "Simon" I have ever known has had a "pessimistic" attitude.. A N Y W A Y....if you want to see a bad WP, go to my profile and look at my "First" wp....and you know what, IT HASN'T BEEN ACCEPTED, so I think your comments are way off base. It took me a very long time to make that crappy wallpaper, but you know what?? I LIKED IT!!!. And I will probably continue to make "crappy" wallpapers until I actually learn how to make good ones. I am 55 years old, and in my experience, it is people like YOU that can dish out negative comments, but can't take critisism of any kind. GOOD OR BAD.. This is one of the best sites I have come across. The people here are some of the best on the net, always ready to help...kind, and friendly. I applaud the fact that they put "as you say" crappy wallpapers on here, if they didn't, no one would ever see their work and they would continue to make (as YOU say) crappy wallpapers and never improve their work. I have not seen a crappy wallpaper on here other than my own. And you know what...people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. In other words, don't make commentsabout someone else's work until you've walked in their shoes and made one yourself. I'm sorry your cup is only "half empty", our on here are "HALF FULL".Geez you really pissed me off.
Every "Simon" I have ever known has had a "pessimistic" attitude.. A N Y W A Y....if you want to see a bad WP, go to my profile and look at my "First" wp....and you know what, IT HASN'T BEEN ACCEPTED, so I think your comments are way off base. It took me a very long time to make that crappy wallpaper, but you know what?? I LIKED IT!!!. And I will probably continue to make "crappy" wallpapers until I actually learn how to make good ones. I am 55 years old, and in my experience, it is people like YOU that can dish out negative comments, but can't take critisism of any kind. GOOD OR BAD.. This is one of the best sites I have come across. The people here are some of the best on the net, always ready to help...kind, and friendly. I applaud the fact that they put "as you say" crappy wallpapers on here, if they didn't, no one would ever see their work and they would continue to make (as YOU say) crappy wallpapers and never improve their work. I have not seen a crappy wallpaper on here other than my own. And you know what...people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. In other words, don't make commentsabout someone else's work until you've walked in their shoes and made one yourself. I'm sorry your cup is only "half empty", our on here are "HALF FULL".Geez you really pissed me off. 
vizo
Reply #64 Monday, March 24, 2003 10:00 AM
Reply #64 Monday, March 24, 2003 10:00 AM
Aaron's methods aside, this site is not really about constructive criticism. It's about putting up your work, primarily skins, for other people to use if they wish. The reason wallpapers are moderated is not so much for quality as it it is to hold down the #'s online. The wallpapers are just to supplement the skins.
Besides, it's not nice to tell the Emperor he has no clothes.
Besides, it's not nice to tell the Emperor he has no clothes.
moshi
Reply #65 Monday, March 24, 2003 10:16 AM
Reply #65 Monday, March 24, 2003 10:16 AM
Jafo: speaking of age and experience: update from rainmation to layercut finally. it´s 2003 and LiteStep is still the best software for eyecandy on the desktop (and if anybody says DesktopX then just look the analog clock hands or system metering graphs), jaggies are no longer acceptable 
hope that can be considered as constructive.
hope that can be considered as constructive.
KarmaGirl
Reply #66 Monday, March 24, 2003 11:07 AM
Reply #66 Monday, March 24, 2003 11:07 AM
Iben, saying to Aaron: "I'm sure the only thing your good at is being a jerk." Is considered a personal attack. It's not constructive at all, and we don't tolerate it. Please refrain from personal attacks. If you don't agree with a comment he made, please tell him why, but don't attack him. He didn't start this thread to be attacked.
Princess^Hirmer, please attack the message not the messenger. You are attacking *somebody* because they don't agree with you.
I don't agree with everything Aaron has said, but he haas the right to voice his opinions. I think that it is also lack of understanding on how things are moderated. We don't moderate skins (unless they are obviously not complete or they are a rip or copyright infringement). Wallpapers are different. We moderate them on quality and originality (which is a matter of opinion by the admins). We have wallpapers to enhance the skins and themes. *But*, we are a *SKINNING* site, therefore, our rules on skin moderation is much more relaxed.
Also, I hope that everyone remembers that artist do this for free. Some artists are very new at this, and will learn as they go and update old skins when they can. To cast them out in the beginning is just wrong. Most artists appreciate constructive criticism. Others only want praises. Either way, it is their choice if they upload or not. What *isn't* appreciated by anyone is hateful remarks.
Princess^Hirmer, please attack the message not the messenger. You are attacking *somebody* because they don't agree with you.
I don't agree with everything Aaron has said, but he haas the right to voice his opinions. I think that it is also lack of understanding on how things are moderated. We don't moderate skins (unless they are obviously not complete or they are a rip or copyright infringement). Wallpapers are different. We moderate them on quality and originality (which is a matter of opinion by the admins). We have wallpapers to enhance the skins and themes. *But*, we are a *SKINNING* site, therefore, our rules on skin moderation is much more relaxed.
Also, I hope that everyone remembers that artist do this for free. Some artists are very new at this, and will learn as they go and update old skins when they can. To cast them out in the beginning is just wrong. Most artists appreciate constructive criticism. Others only want praises. Either way, it is their choice if they upload or not. What *isn't* appreciated by anyone is hateful remarks.
PrincessHirmer5167
Reply #67 Monday, March 24, 2003 11:15 AM
Reply #67 Monday, March 24, 2003 11:15 AM
You're right Karma, I was out of line. I guess his comments just hit me the wrong way this morning. I recently said the same thing to someone on here about a negative comment that they had received on their work, and told them that "everyone is entitled to their opinion whether it be good or bad and that they shouldn't let the bad ones get them down". Guess I better practice what I preach.. I apologize to you and also to Aaron.
I apologize to you and also to Aaron.
Aaron W.
Reply #68 Monday, March 24, 2003 11:36 AM
Reply #68 Monday, March 24, 2003 11:36 AM
Well firstly, I am capable of taking criticism be it good or bad. In fact, I'm quite used to taking more of the negative and it's hardened me so to speak. I'm not a very "emotional" person and am not easily hurt by negative comments. I can usually understand the intent.
I guess, because of that, I should learn to think of others not as myself
I can take negative criticism but it's apparent that not everyone can and that's fine with me.
Meanwhile, I think I'd like to try my hand at making some skins. What tool(s) are used in the piecing-together of them? I'm using the trial version of WB as I don't have the $$ to pay for an OS skinner at the moment. I'd imagine that the skinning software isn't free either, but perhaps there's some sort of trial?
Heh, I'm sort of hoping that I'll fail miserably because otherwise I'll have learned nothing from the experience.
So: bring it on.
Oh, and by the way: About the personal attacks on me, despite them being against the TOS or mod rules, I suppose they are justified. I should not have posted examples (though I did express my reluctance before doing so...) and I brought it on myself.
I apologize once again.
I guess, because of that, I should learn to think of others not as myself
I can take negative criticism but it's apparent that not everyone can and that's fine with me.Meanwhile, I think I'd like to try my hand at making some skins. What tool(s) are used in the piecing-together of them? I'm using the trial version of WB as I don't have the $$ to pay for an OS skinner at the moment. I'd imagine that the skinning software isn't free either, but perhaps there's some sort of trial?
Heh, I'm sort of hoping that I'll fail miserably because otherwise I'll have learned nothing from the experience.
So: bring it on.
Oh, and by the way: About the personal attacks on me, despite them being against the TOS or mod rules, I suppose they are justified. I should not have posted examples (though I did express my reluctance before doing so...) and I brought it on myself.
I apologize once again.
paxx
Reply #69 Monday, March 24, 2003 11:42 AM
Reply #69 Monday, March 24, 2003 11:42 AM
*sigh*
Some people have a thin skin.
Personnally, bash me, praise me, I don't care. But give me a comment tat I can use to get better, then I'll listen.
I personnally find "Wow, this skin rocks" just as useless as "Pooh! This skin sucks". Flatery serves no good, and nether does trashing. Critics on the other hand makes you grow.¸
My opinion.
Some people have a thin skin.
Personnally, bash me, praise me, I don't care. But give me a comment tat I can use to get better, then I'll listen.
I personnally find "Wow, this skin rocks" just as useless as "Pooh! This skin sucks". Flatery serves no good, and nether does trashing. Critics on the other hand makes you grow.¸
My opinion.
PrincessHirmer5167
Reply #70 Monday, March 24, 2003 11:43 AM
Reply #70 Monday, March 24, 2003 11:43 AM
Aaron, I really do apologize to you, I don't usually answer a lot of these threads and actually regreted it after I hit the submit button. I have a son in the Navy and this war thing is wearing on my nerves, guess I took it out on you, which really is no excuse. So please accept my heartfelt apology.
Jennifer
Jennifer
KarmaGirl
Reply #71 Monday, March 24, 2003 11:47 AM
Reply #71 Monday, March 24, 2003 11:47 AM
Princess^Hirmer, thank you for what you said. We all have our bad days.
Aaron, SkinStudio has a shareware version that you can use to put together skins. There are a lot of skinners who use notepad to put them together, also. To make the graphics, you just need a graphics program. A lot of people use Photoshop.
I would like to make something clear- I am an artist, but I have never made a skin. I know what it takes to make a skin (how couldn't I? I work at Stardock) but I really lack the ability to put one together that doesn't suck in a serious way. So, I do moderate, but I have not made one (well, I actually have, but I was too ashamed to upload it). So, you can be an artist and give constructive comments without actually being able to make a skin. Skins are a lot of work. *A lot* of work.
Aaron, SkinStudio has a shareware version that you can use to put together skins. There are a lot of skinners who use notepad to put them together, also. To make the graphics, you just need a graphics program. A lot of people use Photoshop.
I would like to make something clear- I am an artist, but I have never made a skin. I know what it takes to make a skin (how couldn't I? I work at Stardock) but I really lack the ability to put one together that doesn't suck in a serious way. So, I do moderate, but I have not made one (well, I actually have, but I was too ashamed to upload it). So, you can be an artist and give constructive comments without actually being able to make a skin. Skins are a lot of work. *A lot* of work.
joetheblow
Reply #72 Monday, March 24, 2003 2:50 PM
I try to be fair when posting and I try to have class when I am doing it (having NO Class is not the way to go about it).
I use *my* methods of determaining good and bad (bad meaning I give a constructive comment like "how about a different color? Needs contrast, or something else) and other times I thank the person for uploading there design even if I wouldn't exactly use it on my computer.
Being a critic of some ones work is hard so if someone is doing it they need to be aware that the person put work into it. There have been numerous times where I have stated I would not use this but I still think it is well thought out and complete. There might also be times where I would use a skin but it not totally work or missing something.
Windowblinds, by the way, has has close to 100 parts and could have more if you want to add it, so in my honest opinion it would be pretty hard to critisize a work and not know how much went into it or how the process is done.
By the way, your site is nice and some of the walls are pretty good.
Reply #72 Monday, March 24, 2003 2:50 PM
I try to be fair when posting and I try to have class when I am doing it (having NO Class is not the way to go about it).
I use *my* methods of determaining good and bad (bad meaning I give a constructive comment like "how about a different color? Needs contrast, or something else) and other times I thank the person for uploading there design even if I wouldn't exactly use it on my computer.
Being a critic of some ones work is hard so if someone is doing it they need to be aware that the person put work into it. There have been numerous times where I have stated I would not use this but I still think it is well thought out and complete. There might also be times where I would use a skin but it not totally work or missing something.
Windowblinds, by the way, has has close to 100 parts and could have more if you want to add it, so in my honest opinion it would be pretty hard to critisize a work and not know how much went into it or how the process is done.
By the way, your site is nice and some of the walls are pretty good.
joetheblow
Reply #73 Monday, March 24, 2003 2:51 PM
NO Class
I like saying that...
tisk, tisk, tisk...
NO Class!
Reply #73 Monday, March 24, 2003 2:51 PM
NO Class
I like saying that...
tisk, tisk, tisk...
NO Class!
Aaron W.
Reply #74 Monday, March 24, 2003 3:51 PM
Reply #74 Monday, March 24, 2003 3:51 PM
Perhaps I will try making some more elaborate skins for my site, too... But I'd still like to try one for XP.
DarkMist
Reply #79 Monday, March 24, 2003 6:58 PM
Reply #79 Monday, March 24, 2003 6:58 PM
No but it'll make you that sick you'll wish it was
Aaron W.
Reply #80 Monday, March 24, 2003 7:41 PM
Reply #80 Monday, March 24, 2003 7:41 PM
Alllllright, has this thread been declared dead?
Now all the flies are buzzing around making small talk
(You guys going on about the gelly are the flies, but I'm not "attacking" you, just using a metaphore.)
Now all the flies are buzzing around making small talk
(You guys going on about the gelly are the flies, but I'm not "attacking" you, just using a metaphore.)Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
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Reply #61 Monday, March 24, 2003 9:13 AM
You named 'one'.
I guess concepts of 'plenty' differ somewhat...