Rips - A discussion
Tuesday, March 4, 2003 by grayhaze | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Over recent months, I have noticed an alarming rise in copyright theft amongst the skinning community. It only takes a quick look through this very message board to find numerous reports of unauthorised modification and redistribution of WindowBlinds skins, icons and wallpapers.
It's really encouraging to see that skinning is becoming an everyday part of computer use and, as Frogboy tells us time and time again, skinning is constantly on the rise. It seems however that this public exposure has a downside. As more people discover skinning, so the 'ripping' trend continues to grow.
I have to admit that a large factor in my decision to stop skinning was the fact that I had little or no control over the use of my work once it had been released to the public. I got tired of finding threads on various boards around the net where people were simultaniously bad-mouthing me while ripping my skins and passing them off as their own. I'm sure I'm not alone.
So what can we as skinners do about copyright theft? There has to come a point when we can no longer chase those who steal our work, as the situation grows beyond our capacity to monitor it. It's obvious that much of the problem stems from a lack of education and information on the subject, as it's a commonly held misconception that anything you find on the Internet is free to use as you wish. We obviously need to find a way to spread the message that copyright theft is a crime. It's common sense that stealing physical property is theft, so why not digital property?
Is there any way for us to actively protect our work? Digital watermarking goes some way toward settling disputes over ownership, but such techniques hardly lend themselves to skins which often contain large numbers of tiny images.
I'd like to hear any ideas you have on the issue, and perhaps we can start to find a way out of this mess before it truly gets out of hand.
It's really encouraging to see that skinning is becoming an everyday part of computer use and, as Frogboy tells us time and time again, skinning is constantly on the rise. It seems however that this public exposure has a downside. As more people discover skinning, so the 'ripping' trend continues to grow.
I have to admit that a large factor in my decision to stop skinning was the fact that I had little or no control over the use of my work once it had been released to the public. I got tired of finding threads on various boards around the net where people were simultaniously bad-mouthing me while ripping my skins and passing them off as their own. I'm sure I'm not alone.
So what can we as skinners do about copyright theft? There has to come a point when we can no longer chase those who steal our work, as the situation grows beyond our capacity to monitor it. It's obvious that much of the problem stems from a lack of education and information on the subject, as it's a commonly held misconception that anything you find on the Internet is free to use as you wish. We obviously need to find a way to spread the message that copyright theft is a crime. It's common sense that stealing physical property is theft, so why not digital property?
Is there any way for us to actively protect our work? Digital watermarking goes some way toward settling disputes over ownership, but such techniques hardly lend themselves to skins which often contain large numbers of tiny images.
I'd like to hear any ideas you have on the issue, and perhaps we can start to find a way out of this mess before it truly gets out of hand.
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DarkMist
Reply #2 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 9:11 PM
Reply #2 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 9:11 PM
As grayhaze mentions the watermark.....is there no way of 'stamping/branding' it so to speak which cannot be removed without losing a great deal of the skin and leaving it useless?
Aqua.
Reply #3 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 9:12 PM
Reply #3 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 9:12 PM
Unless we want to go the way of single encrypted files that also take advantage of Palladium or something, I think it's largely a lost cause. (I'm not saying give up though)
My concern isn't mainly with people who merely distribute a work and not give credit. It's with people who claim other people's work is their own.
My concern isn't mainly with people who merely distribute a work and not give credit. It's with people who claim other people's work is their own.
adni18
Reply #4 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 9:19 PM
Reply #4 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 9:19 PM
You have right grayhaze, but I feel that there is nothing we can do about it, at least now. The problem is difficult, but we don't give up, we will try and who knows we may find some solution.
Good thread!
Good thread!
Aqua.
Reply #6 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 9:28 PM
Reply #6 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 9:28 PM
Oh, I've seen quite a few ripped walls. The difference between Skins and Walls is that often people claim the skin is their work, while people simply don't bother giving credits for the walls... they just want to share a cool wall.
DavidK
Reply #7 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 9:28 PM
Reply #7 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 9:28 PM
The fact is, your work is copyrighted when you post it. You could go further and register your copyright by mailing it to the Library of Congress (along with the appropriate form and a check for $30) and wait about 8 months for the official ©number. (You can include numerous works under a single copyright submission, as a collection)
I think it might help if we made a more visible "terms of use" statement here and at all skinning sites. Have a statement visible right on each page stating that "All posted works on this site are copyrighted and may not be modified or redistributed without written permission... etc"
I don't really notice it being any worse than it was before, but every case is aggravating.
I think it might help if we made a more visible "terms of use" statement here and at all skinning sites. Have a statement visible right on each page stating that "All posted works on this site are copyrighted and may not be modified or redistributed without written permission... etc"
I don't really notice it being any worse than it was before, but every case is aggravating.
DavidK
Reply #8 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 9:31 PM
Reply #8 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 9:31 PM
Dark Mist - watermarks are expensive. I looked into using them for a photography exhibit and found that after you use up the free ones that come with the registration they get extremely expensive.
DarkMist
Reply #9 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 9:33 PM
Reply #9 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 9:33 PM
Oh right i didn't realise. Maybe the protection you need is sadly gonna have to be paid for, not right but thats justice for you
Peff
Reply #10 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 11:23 PM
Reply #10 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 11:23 PM
I think making a well publicized example of one 'ripper' might go a long way. Pick a rendom ripper and publically (CNN, Wired, etc....) rip them a new a$$hole, As this would need to be done through the courts, it would cost, but may have a positive effect. On the other hand, it may have the opposite effect - I'll show them, etc...
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
Ande
Reply #12 Wednesday, March 5, 2003 12:07 AM
Reply #12 Wednesday, March 5, 2003 12:07 AM
I agree with DavidK. A good start would be a visible "terms of use". There is nothing that stands out to warn there are Copyright issues involvedon this site.
BoXXi
Reply #13 Wednesday, March 5, 2003 1:09 AM
Reply #13 Wednesday, March 5, 2003 1:09 AM
I think the problem is this: Have you ever heard of anyone being sued for stealing a skin or image?, I mean actually held accountable for their actions in a court of law? I don't think I have. And how do you go about sueing some guy in Russia or china? They have different standards and different laws, and the costs would be prohibitive.
Drug dealers and rapists get away with pitiful "slap on the wrist" sentences, so where is the deterrent to ripping a few skins or walls?
If anyone knows of a ripper being caught and tried and made to compensate his victim, I would love to hear about it, if only to make me feel better!
Drug dealers and rapists get away with pitiful "slap on the wrist" sentences, so where is the deterrent to ripping a few skins or walls?
If anyone knows of a ripper being caught and tried and made to compensate his victim, I would love to hear about it, if only to make me feel better!
Styl-X Design
Reply #16 Wednesday, March 5, 2003 1:30 AM
Reply #16 Wednesday, March 5, 2003 1:30 AM
The solution looks pretty simple to me, but I don't know how hard it is to atieve. The last time we have seen 2 or 3 sites that had massed ripped stuff (about 50 skins!!!) If we, or wincustomize could put a note in the zip file like: this art belongs on wincustomize, made by...., copyright C2003.
That would make it verry hard to get evry zip unzipped, delete the note, rezip it again not?
and a watermark is a great idea too for walls.
That would make it verry hard to get evry zip unzipped, delete the note, rezip it again not?
and a watermark is a great idea too for walls.
--Gabriel
Reply #17 Wednesday, March 5, 2003 2:39 AM
Reply #17 Wednesday, March 5, 2003 2:39 AM
All the contents of skins could be placed into an encrypted file instead of just a bunch of loose bmp files... might help a little.
craeonics
Reply #18 Wednesday, March 5, 2003 4:00 AM
Reply #18 Wednesday, March 5, 2003 4:00 AM
You must realise that we are quite deep into things. A lot of people outside think "what's all the fuzz about?". To them, where bickering about insignificant details.
So the only solution is to educate people. Let them know that blood, sweat and tears go into this, that we take it serious and that by uploading it somewhere does not mean that it's "public domain" as the ignorant may claim.
So the only solution is to educate people. Let them know that blood, sweat and tears go into this, that we take it serious and that by uploading it somewhere does not mean that it's "public domain" as the ignorant may claim.
c242
Reply #19 Wednesday, March 5, 2003 4:16 AM
Reply #19 Wednesday, March 5, 2003 4:16 AM
Styl skinner : I see a problem in this method : Ports in good quality would never be possible with this...
You would have to ask the original author for the graphics before You have done anything and I doubt many authors would give their original graphics away before having seen anything...
For the whole problem of ripping : I think the attitude of the younger people reflects the society we live in nowadays. As skinning becomes more popular more problems arrise like in 'real-life' society. Skinning is no island anymore...
I hope this doesn't sound complete crappy, as english is not my origin language.
You would have to ask the original author for the graphics before You have done anything and I doubt many authors would give their original graphics away before having seen anything...
For the whole problem of ripping : I think the attitude of the younger people reflects the society we live in nowadays. As skinning becomes more popular more problems arrise like in 'real-life' society. Skinning is no island anymore...
I hope this doesn't sound complete crappy, as english is not my origin language.
@shu
Reply #20 Wednesday, March 5, 2003 4:42 AM
Reply #20 Wednesday, March 5, 2003 4:42 AM
I have a small question, if I may..
What amounts to ripping? Plagiarising? Or is unauthorised reproduction counted as ripping too?
What amounts to ripping? Plagiarising? Or is unauthorised reproduction counted as ripping too?
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Reply #1 Tuesday, March 4, 2003 9:06 PM
We feel the same way