The Skin Patch Debate
Monday, February 24, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Each year, thousands of skins are created and released. Skins take many many hours to create. But often times, once released, they are never updated. As the software for these skins gains in function, these skins come to look outdated and are no longer used. The proposed answer: Skin patching.
Please read this next part carefully: What Skin patching does is allow third parties to submit updates to an existing skin. But these updates do not contain any parts from the original skins. Instead, they only contain the pieces that have been updated. Or in other words, patches are completely seperate files in themselves. The actual "patching" takes place in software. It would download the original skin and then the updates would be provided as additional sub-styles. If the user applies one of those sub-styles, the program the original skin and then includes the updates when it applies.
For example, let's say someone created a really nice WindowBlinds skin in 2001. But this skin doesn't support Windows XP Start bars, doesn't support the task panel (shellstyle), doesn't support the slider control nor does it support the logon/logoff dialog skinning.
Five different users could submit "patches" to this skin.
Patch 1 would just have the task panel (shellstyle).
Patch 2 would just be the logon/logoff dialog skinning
Patch 3 would have the have the XP Start bar
Patch 4 would have the slider control
Patch 5 would be another rendition of the task panel and it would have the XP Start bar and the logon/logoff skinning.
On a site like WinCustomize (or any other site that supported this technology), when the user chose to download the skin, it would bring up a dialog asking which patches (if any) a user would like to also download.
Once downloaded, when the user went to apply the skin it would bring up a dialog asking which patches they would like to apply. The updates would be displayed to user by widget (so patch 5 contains 3 widgets whereas the others are 1 widget each) to choose which pieces to use.
In this way, older skins could be updated by fans and the original effort to create the skin would be rewarded by keeping the skin fresh and new over the long term.
So where is the debate? How much say should the skin author have? WinCustomize is known for being very protective of skin author rights. But there is the conflict in wanting skin authors work to be kept useful and worthwhile over the long run. Obviously any skin patch that used the original author's graphics would need express written consent. But what about skin patches that don't use any of the graphics from the original skin? I.e. a Shellstyle wouldn't need graphics from the original skin and neither would an XP Start bar. Additionally, what policies should be by default?
Stardock's view is to make it so that the original skin author has the right to deny any skin patches be made for their skin (or at least displayed as part of the skin). Additionally, it believes that original author should have the right to reject individual skin patches from being displayed. But there is also the matter on what the default is. By default, should skin patches be allowed on skins where the author is long gone? Stardock's view is presently that skin patches on those skins would be allowed based on the discretion of the moderator and if the original author returns they can then change the setting if they so choose. This way, the thousands of existing skins can gain a second life and it is Stardock's view that the vast majority of MIA skin authors would prefer that. Moderators would still reject any skin patch that used artwork from the original skin without express written consent however.
What's your view?
Reply #162 Sunday, March 2, 2003 5:16 PM
! The word "prima donna" comes to mind...
Especially considering the "skinning" environment is a sort of "free", "open source" environment for the most part. What if Windows itself had sported reciprocal levels of 'tude about being skinned in the first place? We wouldn't even be having this discussion because there would be no changing, modifying, patching or enhancing of the graphical user interface!
Maybe a so called "open source" library can be created and maintained entirely of skins that are to be freely shared and are allowed to be enhanced, mixed, modified and incorporated into the emerging new gui technologies and innovations.

Reply #163 Sunday, March 2, 2003 5:50 PM
No big deal here, but I do hate to see such good skins fade into oblivion. I know there are a lot of other people that have updated the "oldies" for their own use just as I have. Guess it's just one of those things.And, before I get flamed, I do not mean that there are not good skins being produced now, just that I still like a lot of the old ones.
Reply #164 Sunday, March 2, 2003 5:53 PM
Reply #165 Sunday, March 2, 2003 6:39 PM
I see that you have no skin to your name, so it seems you only benefit from what we create totally for free, us Primadonnas.
And you're wrong. Skinning is NOT open source. Stardock's products are not open source, and neither are the skins we make for it.
As a user, you are free to use them as you please, but you cannot modify them, nor can you distribute them. Not for free, not for a fee.
What can I say? Us Primadonnas are have this annoying attitude.
If you don't like it, you can make your skins yourself.
Reply #166 Sunday, March 2, 2003 7:05 PM
Let's say for example, that the users will have a widget-patch for Essorant's skin with a glassy and fancy buttons and you think that will be a choice for his skin?
I am sorry that I have to say this, but it looks to me like a bad joke, unless I didn't understand well what Frogboy said..
Please don't forget that there are more than 2.000 WindowBlinds skins, I think that the users are having too many choices. Do you thing that users are needing other 1.000 choices to choose from widget-patches? Do you think that they will not be confused with all these choices?
"Why fix something thats not broke. Why create a potential mess".
Reply #167 Sunday, March 2, 2003 7:17 PM

Moderation would be for acceptable content, following consent from skinner.
[short answer...lost one was longer...frustration sets in]...

Reply #168 Monday, March 3, 2003 3:21 AM
Skins are no different than software or works of art. We do not force programmers or sculpters or poets to accept outside updates to their respective works, THEY are the ones responsible for maintaining their product. We should not be forcing skinners to surrender their ownership rights for the sake of future updates created by someone else.
It seems to me the sensible compromise would be to allow the original skinners to opt into the update pool. There would be updatable "open source" skins and there would be proprietary skins. Let the skinners decide which group they choose to associate themselves with when they release their work.
Reply #169 Monday, March 3, 2003 4:42 AM
Add to that that just about every skinner in here things this should be opt-in (I read selectively), and I think we all agree on things.
But my first thoughts were these questions: 1) how is this 'patching' going to work technically? Are going to download ips files and patch old skins or what?
2) plus it all seems to rotate around WindowBlinds and the like, how about skins for other apps, or isn't that an issue?
Reply #170 Monday, March 3, 2003 4:56 AM
It's to add the new XP features to skins made previous to WB4.
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Reply #161 Sunday, March 2, 2003 4:38 PM
When you find skins that work, and work well with all the functionallity that you expect that makes me want to come back for more.
Let the author of the art make a determination on weather to allow the patch or not and for in-active authors the desision being made by wincustomze lets there be control in the in-active area without pushing there skins into oblivian.
I vote yes for the patches.