War?
Monday, January 27, 2003 by joetheblow | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Ok. I hope this doesn't become a "lets blow them up" or a "give peace a chance" thread but I was wondering something stratigic (spell?)
What if the US attacks Iraq and since Iran is also part of the "axil of evil", maybe it too will feel threatened and attack the US troops as well. I actually think they will attack them and that is what Hussien means by "many body bags".
Does anyone think the US has thought of this?
What if the US attacks Iraq and since Iran is also part of the "axil of evil", maybe it too will feel threatened and attack the US troops as well. I actually think they will attack them and that is what Hussien means by "many body bags".
Does anyone think the US has thought of this?
 |
|
Page 7 of 8 | |
|
|---|
craeonics
Reply #122 Friday, January 31, 2003 9:47 AM
Reply #122 Friday, January 31, 2003 9:47 AM
Weaksid need not fear. Topic's shifted to the US's oh so miserable healthcare system and Canada's oh so superior one.
Speaking of idiocy, over here in craeland they can be stupid as well. Fixed limit of medicine students and a shortage of doctors. 1 + 1 = 2. Doh!
And by the way, the thought of "oh, I bumped my toe, but I live in Canada where healthcare if free so let's go bug the hospital" is idiocy too. People may be dumb, but they're not that dumb. And if they are, they'd go to the hospital, get yelled at and sod off home again, never pulling that stunt again.
Speaking of idiocy, over here in craeland they can be stupid as well. Fixed limit of medicine students and a shortage of doctors. 1 + 1 = 2. Doh!
And by the way, the thought of "oh, I bumped my toe, but I live in Canada where healthcare if free so let's go bug the hospital" is idiocy too. People may be dumb, but they're not that dumb. And if they are, they'd go to the hospital, get yelled at and sod off home again, never pulling that stunt again.
Weaksid
Reply #123 Friday, January 31, 2003 9:51 AM
Reply #123 Friday, January 31, 2003 9:51 AM
If they cut off something I don't think they'll go back 
I stoved my finger... Well son, it has to come off now.
I stoved my finger... Well son, it has to come off now.
Bangkokboy
Reply #124 Friday, January 31, 2003 2:23 PM
Reply #124 Friday, January 31, 2003 2:23 PM
werewolf - my comment was definitely not directed at your post, and i'm sorry if i ruffled any feathers. my comment was mainly aimed at an assertion that i thought was flowing thru the thread: that having no health insurance = not seeing a doctor if you're sick in stone-hearted America. The emergency room at the county hospital near me is filled with poor people every evening. they get seen, and get the same care i would although they often have a sizeable wait. They often get their meds free as "samples", while i go to the drugstore and pay because i have the money to do so. people with an immediate problem in my neck of the woods usually get to see a doctor when necessary, and pay, either with money if they have it, or with the inconvenience of waiting if they have no money to pay. for preventive care such as prenatal checks, people with no insurance do indeed have a problem.
SLOWTYPER
Reply #125 Friday, January 31, 2003 2:25 PM
Reply #125 Friday, January 31, 2003 2:25 PM
Me again PAX, I spent some quality time in the P. of Quebec many years ago, the people all over Canada treated us wonderfully, great Country as far as I'm concerned. I know a lot of US types are buying there medicine from Canidian firms, people that smoke are also trying to beat the stupid Taxes and mark ups involved in that. I understood your meaning on the hobo and anyone who gets sick here gets medical help, may not be premium but there is only so many Drs. to go around. 
Frogboy
Reply #126 Friday, January 31, 2003 2:28 PM
, considered "the best in the world" by whom? Take a poll of Americans who are familiar with medical treatment in Canada and the typical American will stay here for medical coverage.
Canada's medical system is good in the sense that it is "free". But it's not really free, you pay for it in much higher taxes.
Most Americans have health insurance and get it as part of their jobs. We have 2 Canadians who work here and we've discussed health care a great deal and what Canadians have to go through to get any kind of complex treatment versus the very streamlined (but more expensive) health care here in the states makes me glad of our system.
Reply #126 Friday, January 31, 2003 2:28 PM
, considered "the best in the world" by whom? Take a poll of Americans who are familiar with medical treatment in Canada and the typical American will stay here for medical coverage.Canada's medical system is good in the sense that it is "free". But it's not really free, you pay for it in much higher taxes.
Most Americans have health insurance and get it as part of their jobs. We have 2 Canadians who work here and we've discussed health care a great deal and what Canadians have to go through to get any kind of complex treatment versus the very streamlined (but more expensive) health care here in the states makes me glad of our system.
Weaksid
Reply #127 Friday, January 31, 2003 2:33 PM
Reply #127 Friday, January 31, 2003 2:33 PM
Yea, at the moment I pay $243 a month for health insurance. But I don't work yet either.
But I got to say. They paid alot of my bills. Paid my whole $18,000 hospital bill at Pittsburgh. And all my meds which I have a $10 co-pay. And a bunch of other hospital and doc bills. So, I got to say mine is pretty good for what it is. I just wish I was only paying what I was when I was working.
But I got to say. They paid alot of my bills. Paid my whole $18,000 hospital bill at Pittsburgh. And all my meds which I have a $10 co-pay. And a bunch of other hospital and doc bills. So, I got to say mine is pretty good for what it is. I just wish I was only paying what I was when I was working.
Frogboy
Reply #128 Friday, January 31, 2003 2:37 PM
Reply #128 Friday, January 31, 2003 2:37 PM
Just reading through these posts really brings home why non-skinning debates here don't work out very well.
I must confess I spend a lot of time on debate sites and Usenet. So I can see the difference between someone who knows what they are talking about and someone who just wants to blurt out an ill-informed opinion.
If you want to convince someone of your position, you need to start by using facts. Prejudices are not facts.
Saying things like "The US health care system is broke" or "The system doesn't work for most" is just silly. Anyone who's even remotely familiar with the statistics or just familiar with the system as a whole knows that it works and works very well for most people.
Even the demonized HMOs work pretty well for most people.
The "problem" of the US system is quite complicated. For one thing, American culture is so tied to believing that technology can solve anything that Americans will "try anything" to extend their lives regardless of the expense. Combine that attitude with out of control lawsuits and you have a "System" in which the costs are out of control.
An American is the one who will go to the doctor with the flu and demand anti-biotics. If the doctor refuses, explains that the flu is a virus and anti-biotics wouldn't do any good, the American is much more likely to threaten a lawsuit than say a Canadian or German.
That is why health care is so expensive in the US. But for most people, most meaning 70%+ of the population, it is "free" in that it is provided by their employer. Another 20% has to pay for their insurance themselves and it leaves just over 10% left without any insurance.
Now if you're in that 70%, the system works pretty good. I go to the doctor, it costs me $10. If I need a perscription, it costs another $5. That's not very much.
And because there is so much private competition in health care, they are always finding ways to try to lower costs. Sometimes that has bad results but overall it had a good result. By contrast, if the government wre in control of it, the same people who pay $700 for wrench would be the ones paying for medical coverage. The government has a very poor record of controlling costs on anything and health care would be no different.
I would prefer to keep my taxes lower and be responsible for my own health care (either by purchasing it myself or getting it via my employer). Canadians chose to have the government be in charge of it. That's fine. That's their right. But it's not something I would like.
I must confess I spend a lot of time on debate sites and Usenet. So I can see the difference between someone who knows what they are talking about and someone who just wants to blurt out an ill-informed opinion.
If you want to convince someone of your position, you need to start by using facts. Prejudices are not facts.
Saying things like "The US health care system is broke" or "The system doesn't work for most" is just silly. Anyone who's even remotely familiar with the statistics or just familiar with the system as a whole knows that it works and works very well for most people.
Even the demonized HMOs work pretty well for most people.
The "problem" of the US system is quite complicated. For one thing, American culture is so tied to believing that technology can solve anything that Americans will "try anything" to extend their lives regardless of the expense. Combine that attitude with out of control lawsuits and you have a "System" in which the costs are out of control.
An American is the one who will go to the doctor with the flu and demand anti-biotics. If the doctor refuses, explains that the flu is a virus and anti-biotics wouldn't do any good, the American is much more likely to threaten a lawsuit than say a Canadian or German.
That is why health care is so expensive in the US. But for most people, most meaning 70%+ of the population, it is "free" in that it is provided by their employer. Another 20% has to pay for their insurance themselves and it leaves just over 10% left without any insurance.
Now if you're in that 70%, the system works pretty good. I go to the doctor, it costs me $10. If I need a perscription, it costs another $5. That's not very much.
And because there is so much private competition in health care, they are always finding ways to try to lower costs. Sometimes that has bad results but overall it had a good result. By contrast, if the government wre in control of it, the same people who pay $700 for wrench would be the ones paying for medical coverage. The government has a very poor record of controlling costs on anything and health care would be no different.
I would prefer to keep my taxes lower and be responsible for my own health care (either by purchasing it myself or getting it via my employer). Canadians chose to have the government be in charge of it. That's fine. That's their right. But it's not something I would like.
paxx
Reply #129 Friday, January 31, 2003 3:15 PM
Reply #129 Friday, January 31, 2003 3:15 PM
We just don't have the same values, that's all.
I believe social services should be provided by the comunity for the community. I think the private sector has no business messing up with people's health. I think that my healt is not something that should be a way of getting rich. We're not talking about a car or a computer here, but about something vitally essential to every humain being. Nobody, ever, should have to worry about if he ca affort being sick.
No, Brad, it's not just about facts. It's about values. I value health before money. Certain things just can't be applied to capitalism. Call me a communist if you want.
I believe social services should be provided by the comunity for the community. I think the private sector has no business messing up with people's health. I think that my healt is not something that should be a way of getting rich. We're not talking about a car or a computer here, but about something vitally essential to every humain being. Nobody, ever, should have to worry about if he ca affort being sick.
No, Brad, it's not just about facts. It's about values. I value health before money. Certain things just can't be applied to capitalism. Call me a communist if you want.
IPlural
Reply #131 Friday, January 31, 2003 3:39 PM
Reply #131 Friday, January 31, 2003 3:39 PM
FERRET is a tool developed and supported by the U.S. Bureau of the Census in collaboration with the Bureau of Labor Statistics and other statistical agencies. The beta release of the Java version of this tool is now available.
A Note about this site. The FERRET application will ask you to register your E-mail address. This is used for two purposes:
Large data requests may be processed in batch. We use e-mail to notify users where they may pick up their results.
FERRET is continuously updated. We use e-mail to notify users of new data releases and software releases.
Please, keep in mind that your E-mail name will not be used in any way to target you as anything more than our user.
http://ferret.bls.census.gov/cgi-bin/ferret?&sel_sponsor=NCHS
A Note about this site. The FERRET application will ask you to register your E-mail address. This is used for two purposes:
Large data requests may be processed in batch. We use e-mail to notify users where they may pick up their results.
FERRET is continuously updated. We use e-mail to notify users of new data releases and software releases.
Please, keep in mind that your E-mail name will not be used in any way to target you as anything more than our user.
http://ferret.bls.census.gov/cgi-bin/ferret?&sel_sponsor=NCHS
IPlural
Reply #132 Friday, January 31, 2003 3:40 PM
Reply #132 Friday, January 31, 2003 3:40 PM
CDC Data Warehouse
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/datawh/statab/pubd.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/datawh/statab/pubd.htm
IPlural
Reply #133 Friday, January 31, 2003 3:40 PM
Reply #133 Friday, January 31, 2003 3:40 PM
oops
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/datawh/ferret/ferret.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/datawh/ferret/ferret.htm
Frogboy
Reply #134 Friday, January 31, 2003 4:42 PM
Reply #134 Friday, January 31, 2003 4:42 PM
Paxx - I agree, it is about value.
But facts are still facts. When someone says that the US system doesn't work for most people, that is not a fact, that is an opinion that is demonstratably false.
But you're right, I don't see it the obligation of a citizen to be coerced into paying for the health care of strangers. If someone wants to give to a health care charity or something I would strongly encourage that. Ironcially, the peopel who want socialized medicine are the first ones to decry religious based charities. Even though statistically, most charity based health care are provided by religious institutions. (though I would argue that some people's faith in the government approaches that of a religion
).
I believe in the right of individuals to determine how best to spend their earned income. I think individuals are more efficient than governments. And I don't believe health care is an entitlement to be provided by a federal government. If state governments wanted to look into that, then that's a different thing. Then the people of that state can determine what to spend their money on.
But facts are still facts. When someone says that the US system doesn't work for most people, that is not a fact, that is an opinion that is demonstratably false.
But you're right, I don't see it the obligation of a citizen to be coerced into paying for the health care of strangers. If someone wants to give to a health care charity or something I would strongly encourage that. Ironcially, the peopel who want socialized medicine are the first ones to decry religious based charities. Even though statistically, most charity based health care are provided by religious institutions. (though I would argue that some people's faith in the government approaches that of a religion
).I believe in the right of individuals to determine how best to spend their earned income. I think individuals are more efficient than governments. And I don't believe health care is an entitlement to be provided by a federal government. If state governments wanted to look into that, then that's a different thing. Then the people of that state can determine what to spend their money on.
Jafo
Reply #135 Friday, January 31, 2003 7:35 PM
Reply #135 Friday, January 31, 2003 7:35 PM
The way I see such things as a 'Health System'...if it fails just ONE member of your society, it is a failure.
If one person dies through mis-management of social responsibility to its community then it has failed that person TERMINALLY and UTTERLY.
By their very size and complexity, any and all 'Health Systems' are a failure.
There is NO SUCH THING as a 'good Health System', only a 'less bad' one.
It is not all about facts and statistics, it's ONLY about people....life and death.
There are lies....
Damn lies....
And statistics....
If one person dies through mis-management of social responsibility to its community then it has failed that person TERMINALLY and UTTERLY.
By their very size and complexity, any and all 'Health Systems' are a failure.
There is NO SUCH THING as a 'good Health System', only a 'less bad' one.
It is not all about facts and statistics, it's ONLY about people....life and death.
There are lies....
Damn lies....
And statistics....
IPlural
Reply #136 Friday, January 31, 2003 8:40 PM
Reply #136 Friday, January 31, 2003 8:40 PM
Jafo, I could type here and quote research findings left and right, I could post statistical results until my fingers bleed. It wouldn't make a difference.
The system is broken, otherwise our fearless leader wouldn't be on TV talking about how he was going to fix it.
All it takes is a web search and you can find more proof of exactly how broken it is than anyone cares to read.
OSHA, FDA, BPH, HHS, and untold number of hearings of House subcommittees, Medical Journals, News reports, Publication Reports, Books, and the list go's on.
The information is there for anyone who wants to look at it.
it's broke, been broke, is going to only get worse until it is thrown out or dies of neglecting the issues which are pushed aside in the shuffle for votes, money and other forms of personal gain.
here is a good example of our fantastic Health system at work.
The President comes out to speak to Doctors upset with Malpractice Insurance costs, so much so they have gone on strike, Doctors mind you.
President Bush is going to push Tort reform through so the Doctors are not treated bad, yada ya ya...
One day later a woman has both breasts removed because her cancer is so advanced it is the only thing that can save her life. She has gone from the day they found the cancer, through all treatments, a number of specialists, doctors one and all, then the final bad news, they couldn't cure her, she was going to die with the double mastectomy. Well all went good and she came out of the operating room expecting to fully recover and live a normal life.
Well, as is done in almost all instances of tumor removal they too the breast material to examine it and record what they found. What they found was, she did not have Cancer, she never had cancer and from the looks of thing she probably will never have cancer. One thing is for sure, she never will have breast cancer, that is 100% positive.
Yup, got to admit, our Health system is the best one going....
anyway, as I said before...
its broke
The system is broken, otherwise our fearless leader wouldn't be on TV talking about how he was going to fix it.
All it takes is a web search and you can find more proof of exactly how broken it is than anyone cares to read.
OSHA, FDA, BPH, HHS, and untold number of hearings of House subcommittees, Medical Journals, News reports, Publication Reports, Books, and the list go's on.
The information is there for anyone who wants to look at it.
it's broke, been broke, is going to only get worse until it is thrown out or dies of neglecting the issues which are pushed aside in the shuffle for votes, money and other forms of personal gain.
here is a good example of our fantastic Health system at work.
The President comes out to speak to Doctors upset with Malpractice Insurance costs, so much so they have gone on strike, Doctors mind you.
President Bush is going to push Tort reform through so the Doctors are not treated bad, yada ya ya...
One day later a woman has both breasts removed because her cancer is so advanced it is the only thing that can save her life. She has gone from the day they found the cancer, through all treatments, a number of specialists, doctors one and all, then the final bad news, they couldn't cure her, she was going to die with the double mastectomy. Well all went good and she came out of the operating room expecting to fully recover and live a normal life.
Well, as is done in almost all instances of tumor removal they too the breast material to examine it and record what they found. What they found was, she did not have Cancer, she never had cancer and from the looks of thing she probably will never have cancer. One thing is for sure, she never will have breast cancer, that is 100% positive.
Yup, got to admit, our Health system is the best one going....
anyway, as I said before...
its broke
joetheblow
Reply #137 Friday, January 31, 2003 10:44 PM
Reply #137 Friday, January 31, 2003 10:44 PM
hmmmm.... I think having this discussions on a skin site is GREAT!!!
I like skinning as much as the other joe, but I also think that we can pull our heads out of the art world or computer world and talk about what is going on.
It is also a way to share ideas so people who are missinformed can be informed and informed people can learn about things over looked.
I also like cheese and the color pink; but not the color purple. I do not like purple.
And thos wireless, laser mouses, has anybody noticed that if you put it on your lap it starts to hurt your leg? I was on a MAC mouse and the beam from the mouse made me feel funny.
I like skinning as much as the other joe, but I also think that we can pull our heads out of the art world or computer world and talk about what is going on.
It is also a way to share ideas so people who are missinformed can be informed and informed people can learn about things over looked.
I also like cheese and the color pink; but not the color purple. I do not like purple.
And thos wireless, laser mouses, has anybody noticed that if you put it on your lap it starts to hurt your leg? I was on a MAC mouse and the beam from the mouse made me feel funny.
IPlural
Reply #138 Friday, January 31, 2003 10:57 PM
yeah, ok, back to my new found obsession skinning, or I should say learning it!
I know, in time Grasshopper
no more politics, war, from me, even in limited fashion..
Reply #138 Friday, January 31, 2003 10:57 PM
yeah, ok, back to my new found obsession
skinning, or I should say learning it!I know, in time Grasshopper
no more politics, war, from me, even in limited fashion..
kthxbye
Reply #139 Friday, January 31, 2003 10:59 PM
Reply #139 Friday, January 31, 2003 10:59 PM
Always a good plan, IPlural. There's two things always dangerous to talk about, offline or online (and seemingly mroe-so online)
Religion and politics.
Religion and politics.
cjorli
Reply #140 Friday, January 31, 2003 11:03 PM
Reply #140 Friday, January 31, 2003 11:03 PM
"If anyone is interested, the Bible predicts the downfall of the USA." -- Delicious
"Yea, the Bible goes through all the Nations. And I think we were one of the first couple to go." --Weaksid
I'd like to see were you two are getting your information from.
"Yea, the Bible goes through all the Nations. And I think we were one of the first couple to go." --Weaksid
I'd like to see were you two are getting your information from.
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!
|
|
Page 7 of 8 | |
|
|---|
Reply #121 Friday, January 31, 2003 7:54 AM
Weaksid runs away ===========>