Aside from the mandatory updating bullshit, my only problem with Win10 so far(aside from that ass browser it shipped with) is that I had to use third party software to unfuck it's start menu.

It's nice for SD that they get a guaranteed sale of Start10 any time someone marginally intelligent switches to 10, but it's not so nice for those of us having to use the OS...

The security nonsense, I configured on install because I bought a copy of the OS instead of upgrading or running a pre-installed OS filled with bloatware.  It's mostly nonsense though, I may not be remotely interested in anything it brings, but if you want cloud functions, you have to actually connect to a cloud, there's nothing particularly malevolent in having an OS do such things.  It may be pointless and retarded for anyone serious, but Microsoft isn't just spying on you and using Cortana as a pretense.  The advertisements, I would never have tolerated, but disabling them is really, really easy.

Edge is truly broken though, freezes and crashes galore in that POS browser, but the OS isn't nearly as bad as 8.  If they'd just shipped it with a working browser, it would be close to 7's release quality.  Of course, it also lacks any real reason to upgrade outside of DX12.  8 was actually significantly faster than 7, resulting in noticeable real world performance gains in application responsiveness, of course, you had to modify it to get rid of that stupid metro before you could enjoy them, but they were there.  10 is not.

psychoak's pretty much on the button.

It seems movement's afoot re mandatory updates as there's already history of issues with it.

I've just downloaded the 'ideal' driver...and a specific KB to deal with the updating...and shall see how I go with those.

It's apparently not every GPU that has the issue...but the 590 sure does.

This machine won't be going anywhere near 10 until I KNOW that the 980 is totally OK ...

The free Windows 10 complicates things. In the Windows XP/Vista x64 time I just ran a dualboot and only started Vista for a few DX10 titles (World in Conflict and Crysis). Now you need to upgrade first which basically means you need to create an image and restore it if you want a chance at a dual boot. Takes a lot of time... Even then I heard that upgrading to Win10 will consume your Windows 7 key.

Nothing is free.  Win 10 comes with the hassle and bloat of upgrading an OS instead of a clean install, unless you buy it.

Hmm no you can. First upgrade. Then your hardware GUID will be stored on the microsoft servers.  Then download the Windows Media Creation tool and create an USB installer (or DVD). https://www.microsoft.com/nl-nl/software-download/windows10 . Run that and skip the serial when asked. As soon as you go online your Windows 10 will be activated based on the hardware GUID.

That's not a hassle?  Your GUID will change as soon as you switch out some hardware, making you repeat the process when you up reinstall most likely, hassling you again.

Vista worked for me right out of the box.  Most drivers were updated automatically, and those that weren't were easily done via the device websites.  I know that a lot of people hated Vista, but for me it was better than XP and so much more stable.  I had quite a few BSODs in XP, but rarely, if ever, in Vista.

Again, Win 8/8.1 has been trouble free for me from day one.  At first I did find the Metro start panel useful to access apps and other stuff on my PC, but I very rarely see it these days... meaning I use the OS exactly as I did Win 7.  In using it that way there is no "dog" about it, just fast and reliable usage that beats 7 for speed and stability, etc.

As for being "somewhere between gullible and biased" regarding Win 10, I'd say I'm exercising caution and using common sense in not trusting a 'free' OS that's essentially MS' version of a walled garden and comes with snooping abilities that send bucketloads of personal data and usage back to Redmond.  Nope, that is not for me.  My sister used the program I linked to in another thread and still she gets ads in the start menu.  Like WTF? 

With all those 'transparent' spy items disabled, ads are not supposed to appear, yet there they are.  Like I said, those things were intended to be 'transparent', but MS has not really transparent and hasn't given users real control because there are data mining elements within the OS core that cannot be turned off.... and that I can not, will not trust.  But if you like Win 10, go ahead and use it.

Cortana is actually useful to those users who avail themselves of its services, so it isn't exactly 'spying', well not in the true sense.  Users input whatever queries and Cortana searches for relevant answers, meaning that Cortana is not data mining.... unlike the core elements that cannot be turned off.  Now those DO collect personal information and hone home.

Anyway, it's not a bother for me, and those 'telemetry' updates for Win 8.1, well they were uninstalled and hidden from future downloads... though I do expect MS to try push them through in other ways, like piggyback them with important patches, etc.

Sorry, starkers...but yesterday I was in an SF 'costume' for Halloween  [don't ask] ...so I made a tinfoil hat....

Your comments regarding Win 10 [combined with apparent myopia re 8 / 8.1] ....you can have it.

One size fits all.

The Modern OS requires [by many users] cloud/data/convenience [targeting] more so than "the good old days" [blame idiot users of mobile phones/twitter/facebook et al] so the OS gets the functionality.

As with ALL OS's people find/release work-arounds for 'unwanted' features.  10 already has many. [probably more and better researched than those missed on 8].

You are a product of your own paranoia.

When I said [many times] that 8 was/is a dog it was because the GUI was TOO DIFFERENT for people to be comfortable with and made millions of dollars for Stardock when they FIXED IT.  And the bottom line is that the OS should NOT have been released whilst still requiring fixing.  That is why heads rolled.  That is why there is an 8.1.  That is why 10 is free.

It's not some fascist evil plan by 'The Man' to fuck over its customers.

It's an admission of just how badly they lost the plot, whether you are the only person who likes 8 or whether you can find someone else to keep you company the reality is 8 was a mistake and MS knows it.

Too many people simply FORGET OS History and just how bad some of the changes [updates] really were, and what drove skinners/tweakers/coders to try to reinvent them.

I don't know how many systems you need to own/manage/make before your opinion is taken seriously, but every system here is home-built [excluding laptops] and currently, not counting the dozen or so VM's and VB's all but 2 are now on 10.

One had a minor glitch....took a few minutes to correct....2 were utterly painless and one...this last one has an NVidia issue.  In all, 4 different original OS vers done as upgrades complete with installed proggies, etc.

7 Pro, 7 Ult, 8.1 Pro, and 10 preview.

I'd like to think I'm getting experienced with 10, and given a few more years I might almost like it more than 7.

But no matter what, I'm glad to see the arse-end of 8....

And besides....when I end up agreeing with psychoak you KNOW we must be right...

You should totally ban me again, having things so certain is disturbing, it takes all the mystery out of living!

I've been avoiding it like the plague because it's on a laptop(I'm going to have to travel shortly so I bit the bullet and bought one of the infernal things...) but it shouldn't take much more work for me to neuter their stupid security nonsense, and aside from Edge, that's the only thing giving me grief since I can get around those stupid mandatory updates now...

Edge is pretty hilariously bad, haven't had a browser that glitchy since an IE update bricked around 4 or 5.  Lockups that prevent you from interacting with it are downright frequent.

Fear not....we're bound to disagree on something again eventually...

Edge for me wasn't all that much of a drama...probably because I've concentrated on keeping IE instead.

'Bad' was when both IE10 and 11 crashed MS's own game/sim aka FSX.

But they worked it out eventually.

You never know....they might even work out Edge one day...

Jafo

reply 170

You never know....they might even work out Edge one day...

harpo, the ghost NON-subscriber

I must admit that I never even considered Windows 8 for my gaming pc. However I needed a new laptop and I purchased a Microsoft Surface Pro 2. That machine is amazing! It has 6-8 hours battery (Can be extended by 40% with the power cover), i5, 8 gb ram, 512 GB ssd. But it came with Windows 8 (aargh!). But it is so flexible. I have been using it as a laptop, htpc (dock connected to TV) and tablet (continue watching in bed ) for about 8 months now and I love it. You could even use it as a (non gaming) pc while docked. I honestly don't notice a difference in browsing/office compared to my gaming machine.

It did take a while to get used to Windows 8. But now I have realized that Windows 8 is perfect for that device. In fact I have not upgraded it to Windows 10 because Windows 10 lacks some essential functions such as gradual brightness control (Win8 has per 1%, Win10 per 25%) and a lot of the touch gestures that came with Windows 8.

Windows 8 itself came with some nice features such as reduced ram usage (Win7 always idles at 3 GB+ for me, Win8 at 1.9), they upgraded task manager with disk usage (including latencies!) and a neat network traffic monitor, and last but not least they added the ability to pause (network) transfers. Which was something I needed for over 10 years! Oh and for tablets the new sceen split functionality was awesome.

As far as I know the primary thing they added in Win10 is a new skin and a new WDDM (Windows Display Driver Model). So all other devices should work perfectly. This update is definitely not as big was Windows 3.x, Win95, Win XP and Windows Vista were. I also have a feeling MS was sort of ready for another "Vista". Pretty much all big OS changes have been met with distrust and anger (remember Windows XP missing divers and online activation? Remember Vista? Win7 was basically the same OS). With 2 years Win10 is here quite fast. Maybe because it is basically Windows 8 with a different skin and some minor changes. Win8 wasn't that bad jut like Vista wasn't. I am confident that if you install Vista today you will like it just as much as Win7. But yes the Windows8 tablet interface made no sense for regular pc's! Of course you could just use Stardock's Start 8 to get back the Win7 feeling . In 20+ years have learned that you just need to work with the new OS releases in hindsight they are often not so bad .

Yes, except for Win ME.

That should have been drowned at birth...

Working with an OS to get used to it isn't the problem with Microsoft's recent releases...

I was copying winamp playlist files over to duplicate my music environment on the laptop yesterday.  A simple thing, yes?

First I had to unhide the folders so I could actually move things into them, which is yet again, located in a different menu than previously.  Microsoft has gotten progressively more paranoid about attempting to keep users from actually using their computers, in a misguided effort to make things safe for people who are really just too stupid to own one.  Many settings files for programs are going to be inside folders hidden by default, obscured behind menu layers that seemingly change without cause in each new iteration.  In this case, frankly, it's superior in 10, having them all beneath File instead of under the superfluous Organize, but half the folders on the computer are hidden by default now.

Then I do the copy action, and I'm informed that I can't.  It doesn't even throw an authorization popup, because apparently they forgot to do it for cut/past maneuvers.  If you drag the files into the folder, you get the UAC prompt, but cut and paste is a no go.  This same security measure breaks many older programs that weren't designed with it's anal behavior in mind, and it does nothing to prevent the primary method people get their computers infected, by willingly installing the malware themselves.

In the case of Windows 7, disabling UAC was a minor detail, in the case of Vista, disabling UAC simply left you locked out of things, and needed a third party workaround to fix.  Hopefully, when I disable UAC on 10, I wont need to expend any more effort than I did to unhide all system files and folders, show known extensions, etc.

Half of Microsoft's releases in the last decade have required third party help to make them equally functional in comparison to their predecessor.  ME was simply broken and inferior to it's predecessor in every way, Vista had crippling security issues, along with performance problems in Aero, and 8 had a GUI designed for ease with touch pads, and useless for the precision interfaces nearly everyone was attempting to use it for.  The only real difference between them was that other people couldn't really fix Windows ME with something you could download and install inside an hour.

And I'll keep it, too!   As I said, Win 8.1 works exactly like Win 7 with Start8 installed... no Metro, no glitches, no pain.  It just works... faster and better than 7 ever did.  Oh, and I'm not the only one who like Win 8.1. RND is one who comes to mind, but I recall Phoon and the-Monk as being others.

As for Win 10, it wouldn't exist without Win 8 being created first.... 10 is just a 'dressed up' version of 8.1, but with a fugly UI and nasty looking icons, that are nauseating at best.  Given than my other issues with 10 were fixed, which is most unlikely,  Stardock would have to remedy both the UI and icon replacement issue before I'd consider installing it on any machine of mine.

As for MS "Not" mining personal usage and data?????  Can you categorically 100% say that its not?   Put it this way, I wouldn't be betting my 'lefty' on it. 

When several tech writers/experts say they've discovered data mining elements deep within the core, and that they're not able to be turned off without rendering the whole OS useless, I tend to 'prick my ears up'... and without a denial from Microsoft, I tend to believe it to be so.  What does MS do with all that data [same question could be asked about Google], feched if I know, but it is being gathered and I'm not comfortable with that. 

Then there's the 'walled garden' aspect of Win 10.  Apple has been making bucket loads from that very concept, and with MS constantly losing market share to Apple, a similar business model was enabled to compete in today's market.  The Win 10 'service' is MS' answer to the 'walled garden, and while it may not be so obvious yet, eventually it will become more and more a closed system... where some of our favourite software titles could disappear because certain developers lost favour with MS and other 'more pleasing' ones who 'toed the MS line' were found.

Sorry, no offense is intended here, but this is purely business for Microsoft, and anyone who thinks Win 10 is customer/user driven is either naive or deluded.  Given it is a 'free' OS, MS has to recoup the capital invested in 10's development, so it built in features beneficial to itself.... ie, data mining; OS based advertising; core components that cannot be deactivated.

And the 'Cloud' [storage and etc], they can shove it!  I don't care who or what created the concept, I neither want or need it, so why would I want an OS [I neither like or trust] that'll largely depend on it as time goes on.... after all, it has become a 'service', right?

There, I've said all I'm going to about 'piggy' Win 10 here.  It started off as a hardware based thread and I hope to see it continue more along those lines.

OK...I need to send you the tinfoil hat then....

Nah, best you hang on to it... you wouldn't want 'that OS' reading your mind, now would ya?

Besides, I already have a variety of tin foil hats of varying thicknesses and sizes... for various kinds of intrusion.  One is about 15 layers thick to stop government  probing my thoughts.  

Then I have one that's 12 layers thick.  That one's to keep out alien mind probes when they're about, but is painted a dull black... so the beam isn't reflected off various surfaces and in through the..... yeah!   Let's just say a reflected mind beam is far worse than an alien anal probe.

Okay, so it's not exactly the kind of hardware I had in mind, but it's a start.

Well, it's been a busy weekend so I haven't had a chance to get back onto Terry's recalcitrant machine....with a new go at resolving the driver issue...and disabling the update service for it.

I'll do that tomorrow ...and if that's fine then I'll delve deeper into compatibilities that might still be iffy compared to Win 7 which is a heck of a lot older.

As I said, this install is half a dozen years old...and comes with more unwanted dross [now] than I can remember pointing a stick at...

But it's the ultimate mule for my prime machine all the same...

The current OSX has less market share in the PC environment than Windows 8 does.  Microsoft isn't losing market share to Apple, they're losing new markets to Apple.  They're a footnote in the smart phone market, and getting creamed in tablets even after Surface.

What they're losing market share to in desktop computing is Windows 7, even 8.1 has a bigger market than Apple does in it's entirety.  Windows 7 is the plurality still, and combined with XP, the second most popular OS, "old" operating systems account for well over two thirds of the market.

Business PC's are similarly Microsoft dominated, and similarly aged.

Well, that's what I meant.... that to compete in those phone and tablet markets, MS had to create it's own walled garden with a cross platform OS that could sync and share more easily, similarly to how iPad and iPhone does.