A formal complaint against WinCustomize.
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 by UBoB | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
The recent rating scandal surrounding my skin "BrassLine" prompted me to conduct a test. I noticed that the download totals seemed to sit a certain number (50) for a dispropotionate length of time. So, I therefore contacted 15 of my personal friends and asked them to visit WinCustomize and download the "BrassLine" skin at a predetermined time. 10 minutes after that predetermined time my friends had all sent emails indicating they had downloaded the skin. I went to WinCustomize to read my download totals. It still read 50.
I then conducted the test on one of my other skins, "Spander"
The result of that test was that the download total for spander rose by 15.
I am assuming this is a technical glitch, since I have repeatedly been told that this sort of thing would never be done on purpose by the good people at WinCustomize.
Please look into this technical problem.
Thank you.
I then conducted the test on one of my other skins, "Spander"
The result of that test was that the download total for spander rose by 15.
I am assuming this is a technical glitch, since I have repeatedly been told that this sort of thing would never be done on purpose by the good people at WinCustomize.
Please look into this technical problem.
Thank you.
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Jafo
Reply #2 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:01 AM
Reply #2 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:01 AM
Just checked, myself...it's reading '54' at the moment....maybe it is a glitch...
Lecrayon
Reply #3 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:05 AM
Reply #3 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:05 AM
Hmmmmmm...Have these friends bought subscriptions Motion?
Jafo
Reply #4 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:20 AM
Reply #4 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:20 AM
One thing to clarify. Admin's skins are not moderated so therefore are not 'automatically rated 10'. As with any person who has direct upload privilege, scripting automatically chucks a '6' on it...[which is why I'm hoping some of mine are still just a '6'....no-one hardly notices boring old grey].
Now, considering that 'accepted masters' of the craft such as treetog have their skins presented publicly at a rating of '6', then is a '5' or whatever yours had all that ghastly?
I didn't 'moderate' your WB skin...I don't do many WB skins....simply because I'm a LiteSTEP person who has never skinned an XP start menu. I leave them to those that 'know' WB more intimately....which is fair, n'est pas?
Seriously.....when MikeB's 'Colony' WB skin is currently about a '9'.....where exactly would you be putting yours?
Mine in comparison would be lucky to be a positive number....but then I've never really had a burning need to have big numbers.
If someone likes 'em...that's good enough for me...
Now, considering that 'accepted masters' of the craft such as treetog have their skins presented publicly at a rating of '6', then is a '5' or whatever yours had all that ghastly?
I didn't 'moderate' your WB skin...I don't do many WB skins....simply because I'm a LiteSTEP person who has never skinned an XP start menu. I leave them to those that 'know' WB more intimately....which is fair, n'est pas?
Seriously.....when MikeB's 'Colony' WB skin is currently about a '9'.....where exactly would you be putting yours?
Mine in comparison would be lucky to be a positive number....but then I've never really had a burning need to have big numbers.
If someone likes 'em...that's good enough for me...
Lecrayon
Reply #5 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:25 AM
Reply #5 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:25 AM
I downgraded Mike's WB, if you want to know. It is not innovative enough to get a 10. I gave BorgX WB a 10. THAT was brilliant. In comparison with BorgX Colony is less. But the rating wasn't the point here was it? It was about download stats.
feline
Reply #6 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:30 AM
Reply #6 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:30 AM
SlowNeasy - No offense to any of the skinners but I propose the downloads and rating system be abolished.
from what i understand, the rating system is unlikely to be removed.
one simple reason for this is that it is used as part of the efforts to control the ever growing bandwidth requirements of the site.
i think everyone would agree that the rating system isn't perfect. however, it has been pointed out that the more people who rate, the more "accurate" the numbers should be.
as for the download system, i really don't know there, but from what i know of this site i find it hard to believe any specific problems could possibly be deliberate acts.
from what i understand, the rating system is unlikely to be removed.
one simple reason for this is that it is used as part of the efforts to control the ever growing bandwidth requirements of the site.
i think everyone would agree that the rating system isn't perfect. however, it has been pointed out that the more people who rate, the more "accurate" the numbers should be.
as for the download system, i really don't know there, but from what i know of this site i find it hard to believe any specific problems could possibly be deliberate acts.
Jafo
Reply #7 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:44 AM
Reply #7 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:44 AM
Just to clarify...'I don't do the moderations of' many WB skins....I do, however skin WB...just without the start menu bits because they do not show in LiteSTEP.
One of my LS themes includes a WB skin for that reason, rather than upping it as a stand-alone skin.
Were I to rate a WB skin, my practical experience with them would well qualify me to do so....more-so than a casual or even avid user, since I understand its entrails. Not only that, but I do it without SkinStudio...the old way....adaptation, modification, trial-error and editing in notepad...
One of my LS themes includes a WB skin for that reason, rather than upping it as a stand-alone skin.
Were I to rate a WB skin, my practical experience with them would well qualify me to do so....more-so than a casual or even avid user, since I understand its entrails. Not only that, but I do it without SkinStudio...the old way....adaptation, modification, trial-error and editing in notepad...
T-Man
Reply #8 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 9:44 AM
Reply #8 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 9:44 AM
Motion,
There is no conspiracy behind the download numbers. The download count will only be incremented the first time you download a skin. Subsequent downloads will not increment the download count. This is determined by a value set in your cookie.
So if your friends had already downloaded your skin then the number would not increase on their second and third attempts.
There is no conspiracy behind the download numbers. The download count will only be incremented the first time you download a skin. Subsequent downloads will not increment the download count. This is determined by a value set in your cookie.
So if your friends had already downloaded your skin then the number would not increase on their second and third attempts.
T-Man
Reply #9 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 9:44 AM
Reply #9 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 9:44 AM
Oh, and the Rating System will not be removed. It is here to stay.
da_zman20
Reply #11 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:19 PM
Reply #11 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:19 PM
I don't get it what's the big deal??? I download all the time based the screen shot of the skin, and what the authors say... a picture says a thousand words... Look at the screen shot for Lunar Base by treetog, perfect looking skin, works just as good as it looks... that's why I downloaded it... people don't download skins because they are rated... they download them because they look interesting to them...
bakerstreet
Reply #12 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:58 PM
Reply #12 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:58 PM
quoted from a post I made on another string:
"Downloads are meaningless as well. People can't judge a piece until they have used it. I would rather have ten downloads that stayed on the desktop for a month than a million that went straight to the recycle bin. Sure, I want people to use what I offer, but I would be silly to think that a tenth of the people who download what I make ever actually do.
Anyone who thinks about their work, spends time on it, and is proud enough to upload it really isn't gonna be helped or harmed by an anonymous number. If you upload stuff in order to find out if something is good you are doing everyone a disservice. End-users who need numbers to decide if a piece is good enough to download have no meaningful opinion, so how much worse is it when the artists themselves need to see that number to decide if their own work is of quality? You made it, did you do a quality job?
To sum up, if you are plagued by doubt because of your ratings, then it probably *isn't* because of your ratings."
"Downloads are meaningless as well. People can't judge a piece until they have used it. I would rather have ten downloads that stayed on the desktop for a month than a million that went straight to the recycle bin. Sure, I want people to use what I offer, but I would be silly to think that a tenth of the people who download what I make ever actually do.
Anyone who thinks about their work, spends time on it, and is proud enough to upload it really isn't gonna be helped or harmed by an anonymous number. If you upload stuff in order to find out if something is good you are doing everyone a disservice. End-users who need numbers to decide if a piece is good enough to download have no meaningful opinion, so how much worse is it when the artists themselves need to see that number to decide if their own work is of quality? You made it, did you do a quality job?
To sum up, if you are plagued by doubt because of your ratings, then it probably *isn't* because of your ratings."
UBoB
Reply #14 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 5:35 PM
Reply #14 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 5:35 PM
I'm cool.
As far as the "cookie" thing T-man, I checked and they all say they delete their cookies using a program called WindowWasher, daily, which I guess would remove the cookie and the count.
I would never again suggest a conspiracy, I've learned a lesson a long time ago regarding that.
It really was just a strange inconsitancy in the total. I thought it should be updated faster. The control that I inserted in the test, using my other skin "Spander", updated to the new total almost immediately, and, in fact showed the new 15 downloads while the "BrassLine" skin still didn't.
It is a puzzle that I guess will not be solved.
All is fine then. No technical problems. That is good.
Thanks to all who responded, especially Jafo and T-Man for their behind the scenes information.
As far as the "cookie" thing T-man, I checked and they all say they delete their cookies using a program called WindowWasher, daily, which I guess would remove the cookie and the count.
I would never again suggest a conspiracy, I've learned a lesson a long time ago regarding that.
It really was just a strange inconsitancy in the total. I thought it should be updated faster. The control that I inserted in the test, using my other skin "Spander", updated to the new total almost immediately, and, in fact showed the new 15 downloads while the "BrassLine" skin still didn't.
It is a puzzle that I guess will not be solved.
All is fine then. No technical problems. That is good.
Thanks to all who responded, especially Jafo and T-Man for their behind the scenes information.
Jafo
Reply #15 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:04 PM
Reply #15 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:04 PM
motion...I think the cookie number count thingie is actually handled by the Site, and not the ones on your machines...so deleting them does not alter the original record of your having downloaded the skin already.
Is it possible that your 15 friends had already downloaded the first one but had not as yet dl'd the second?
That would solve the riddle, I think...
Is it possible that your 15 friends had already downloaded the first one but had not as yet dl'd the second?
That would solve the riddle, I think...
joetheblow
Reply #16 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:05 PM
Reply #16 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:05 PM
I like cheese.
and downloads numbers sometimes does brighten a skinners day (the like me they really like me!!!!!!)
At first you don't care, then you notice something..... am I being mistreated? How come that happens to him but this happens to me? What is that over there?
then it goes away; naaah it is just a coincidence.... then you think, you know you see it again!!
so I will admit, at first I didn't care, but now I like the "cheese" I get when I do something good. I don't count on it, but I still like cheese.
and downloads numbers sometimes does brighten a skinners day (the like me they really like me!!!!!!)
At first you don't care, then you notice something..... am I being mistreated? How come that happens to him but this happens to me? What is that over there?
then it goes away; naaah it is just a coincidence.... then you think, you know you see it again!!
so I will admit, at first I didn't care, but now I like the "cheese" I get when I do something good. I don't count on it, but I still like cheese.
Jafo
Reply #17 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:06 PM
Reply #17 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:06 PM
motion...I think the cookie number count thingie is actually handled by the Site, and not the ones on your machines...so deleting them does not alter the original record of your having downloaded the skin already.
Is it possible that your 15 friends had already downloaded the first one but had not as yet dl'd the second?
That would solve the riddle, I think...
Is it possible that your 15 friends had already downloaded the first one but had not as yet dl'd the second?
That would solve the riddle, I think...
Jafo
Reply #18 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:07 PM
Reply #18 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:07 PM
Now, THAT's class...a double post with one in the middle...I'm truly brilliant....
joetheblow
Reply #19 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:10 PM
Reply #19 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:10 PM
cheese = # of downloads
BTW
and what Jafo says is true from what I know. when I lost all of my files and redownloaded stuff, it did not increase the count on some of the skins. there were no cookies on my computer cause my computer was re-imaged.
BTW
and what Jafo says is true from what I know. when I lost all of my files and redownloaded stuff, it did not increase the count on some of the skins. there were no cookies on my computer cause my computer was re-imaged.
MikeB314
Reply #20 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:18 PM
Reply #20 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:18 PM
Well done, Jafo. You've been practicing haven't you?
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Reply #1 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 7:54 AM
Chances are that that one set of DLs coincided with a refresh.
Anyway...there is certainly no 'weird, wacko' things happening....no conspiracy theories, etc...