The Rating System
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 by JamMeister33 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Now, don't get me wrong, I am for the rating system; however, I think that once a person who has the privilege of being able to rate a skin has made a choice, they should not be able to go back and change it.
The rating system is being abused by malicious minded people who either have a grudge, or just get a twisted
pleasure out of having the power to negatively influence other people's hard work.
The rating system is being abused by malicious minded people who either have a grudge, or just get a twisted
pleasure out of having the power to negatively influence other people's hard work.
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Lecrayon
Reply #22 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:04 AM
Reply #22 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:04 AM
But there is a certain similarity between downloads and rates. Why favour one and crush the other while actually the meaning is the same?
paxx
Reply #23 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:06 AM
Reply #23 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:06 AM
Are you being sarcastic, Pat?
I do believe the top download list and the top author list should be removed, but I think the download number should still be shown. It's nice to know how many time your stuff was downloaded, good or bad.
I do believe the top download list and the top author list should be removed, but I think the download number should still be shown. It's nice to know how many time your stuff was downloaded, good or bad.
JamMeister33
Reply #24 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:20 AM
Reply #24 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:20 AM
Well, I didn't mean to start a battle raging in here, I only want to point out how the abuse of the rating privilege can damage a person's work. If the general public sees that a skin has a low rating, would they not assume that there is something wrong with it and not DL it? As Lecrayon points out, most skins only have a couple or a small few of actual people rating it and the caprice of one person abusing that privilege can have a large impact on the rating of that skin.
feline
Reply #25 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:27 AM
Reply #25 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:27 AM
there is a rumour that only members with a status of Apprentice or above can rate skins.
i believe level 4 users (have subscribed) can also rate.
the original logic to apprentice or above rating is that only those who have contributed in a positive way (so hopefully mature and sensible people) can rate.
of course, there is the risk my "facts" are out of date, or just wrong
i believe level 4 users (have subscribed) can also rate.
the original logic to apprentice or above rating is that only those who have contributed in a positive way (so hopefully mature and sensible people) can rate.
of course, there is the risk my "facts" are out of date, or just wrong
JamMeister33
Reply #26 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:31 AM
Reply #26 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:31 AM
The expectation of maturity is sadly overestimated I'm afraid.....
bakerstreet
Reply #27 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:50 AM
Reply #27 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:50 AM
lmao... you guys...
look back to the root cause of the thread and ask yourselves if this really, really merits discussion. I think we know these two well enough now to take them with a huge grain of salt. Well, more of a boulder of salt. I mean come on; the outrage is over the fact that padding one another's rating isn't 'sticky'. This is not the perspective on which to base change at any level.
look back to the root cause of the thread and ask yourselves if this really, really merits discussion. I think we know these two well enough now to take them with a huge grain of salt. Well, more of a boulder of salt. I mean come on; the outrage is over the fact that padding one another's rating isn't 'sticky'. This is not the perspective on which to base change at any level.
feline
Reply #28 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:52 AM
Reply #28 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:52 AM
well, the idea is that if you are totaly imature you wont get promoted by the powers that be
however, that logic doesnt apply to subscribers. on the other hand, i wouldnt expect people who are only here to pass insulting comments wouldnt want to subscribe.
however, that logic doesnt apply to subscribers. on the other hand, i wouldnt expect people who are only here to pass insulting comments wouldnt want to subscribe.
paxx
Reply #29 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:56 AM
Reply #29 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:56 AM
They subscribe to get unlimited downloads. Which is not incompatible with not being capable of objectivity.
JamMeister33
Reply #30 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:58 AM
Reply #30 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:58 AM
Hmmmmm, cut and paste, cut and paste......where's my scissors?....hee, hee
T-Man
Reply #31 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:03 AM
Reply #31 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:03 AM
"Are you being sarcastic, Pat?"
Yes, Extremely!
"I do believe the top download list and the top author list should be removed, but I think the download number should still be shown. It's nice to know how many time your stuff was downloaded, good or bad. "
Thats my point! Ratings is a "different" way to measure the status of a skin.
Downloads is not a perfect system.
Comments is not a perfect system.
Ratings is not a perfect system.
THERE IS NO PERFECT SYSTEM. BECAUSE EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT AND HAS DIFFERENT TASTES.
So because everyone is different we have different ways of looking at the skins to help you sort through them.
So for all those people who say we should get rid of the Rating system because its not perfect or because they do not agree with it please step back a bit and apply those same rules to everything else around you. If you did I bet you would be getting rid of Everything. Why is this such a hard concept to understand.
Yes, Extremely!
"I do believe the top download list and the top author list should be removed, but I think the download number should still be shown. It's nice to know how many time your stuff was downloaded, good or bad. "
Thats my point! Ratings is a "different" way to measure the status of a skin.
Downloads is not a perfect system.
Comments is not a perfect system.
Ratings is not a perfect system.
THERE IS NO PERFECT SYSTEM. BECAUSE EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT AND HAS DIFFERENT TASTES.
So because everyone is different we have different ways of looking at the skins to help you sort through them.
So for all those people who say we should get rid of the Rating system because its not perfect or because they do not agree with it please step back a bit and apply those same rules to everything else around you. If you did I bet you would be getting rid of Everything. Why is this such a hard concept to understand.
JamMeister33
Reply #32 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:10 AM
Reply #32 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:10 AM
by JamMeister33 - 12/11/2002 1:50:57 AM
Now, don't get me wrong, I am for the rating system; however, I think that once a person who has the privilege of being able to rate a skin has made a choice, they should not be able to go back and change it.
The rating system is being abused by malicious minded people who either have a grudge, or just get a twisted
pleasure out of having the power to negatively influence other people's hard work.
Now, don't get me wrong, I am for the rating system; however, I think that once a person who has the privilege of being able to rate a skin has made a choice, they should not be able to go back and change it.
The rating system is being abused by malicious minded people who either have a grudge, or just get a twisted
pleasure out of having the power to negatively influence other people's hard work.
Lecrayon
Reply #33 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:10 AM
Reply #33 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:10 AM
Because the rating is connected to display skins to visitors for controlling bandwidth. It shouldn't be. Rate and download all you want, but if you start to use it as a means of exclusion I think it's not fair.
T-Man
Reply #34 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:12 AM
Reply #34 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:12 AM
Just to add more. Then we should get rid of sorting by alaphabetic order because that in bias towards peoples names. Or sorting by date because those who recently uploaded have an advantage over a skin that was published two months ago.
How many times have you seen a list somewhere where you see people put A or AAA or AAAAA or _AAA in the begining of their name just so they get to be first in the sorting list. That is obvoiusly not a good system. But you never hear of people yelling about the alphabetical system and suggesting that it be abolished. The Rating system is just as good. Its not perfect. It can be done many different ways so it will also be controversial. But none the less its a system that does work. Just learn to accept it. Its here to stay.
(sorry, didn't mean to go on a rant but this is really starting to grind my ax)
How many times have you seen a list somewhere where you see people put A or AAA or AAAAA or _AAA in the begining of their name just so they get to be first in the sorting list. That is obvoiusly not a good system. But you never hear of people yelling about the alphabetical system and suggesting that it be abolished. The Rating system is just as good. Its not perfect. It can be done many different ways so it will also be controversial. But none the less its a system that does work. Just learn to accept it. Its here to stay.
(sorry, didn't mean to go on a rant but this is really starting to grind my ax)
JamMeister33
Reply #35 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:13 AM
Reply #35 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:13 AM
This is the only point I am trying to make here.........not abolishment of ratings, or comments, or download counts. I am merely pointing out how one person abusing the privilege can have negative repercussions.
paxx
Reply #36 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:37 AM
Reply #36 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:37 AM
Pat, I think Lecrayon is refering to the fact that visitors only have access to skins and themes that have a certain rate and above, not to the fact that you can sort skins and themes by rate. To follow your example, it's as if we'd give access to skins and themes from author's who's name start with P to Z.
Frogboy
Reply #37 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:42 AM
Reply #37 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:42 AM
Pretty compelling arguments, T-man. I agree.
No one hates rating systems more than me. Our software at download.com gets maliciously trashed every time and they allow anyone to vote.
But at a macro level, they work pretty well. They don't exist for the benefit of the skin author. They exist so that casual users can sort by rating and get a rough guestimate of the nicer skins. It's not perfect but it works "good enough".
No one hates rating systems more than me. Our software at download.com gets maliciously trashed every time and they allow anyone to vote.
But at a macro level, they work pretty well. They don't exist for the benefit of the skin author. They exist so that casual users can sort by rating and get a rough guestimate of the nicer skins. It's not perfect but it works "good enough".
Aqua.
Reply #38 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:17 PM
Reply #38 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:17 PM
Yes, it's annoying when some creep goes through and decides to have fun trashing peoples' ratings. But this is only the annoying exception, not the rule. I say keep the ratings system, it's nice to see what people think of a certain skin, even if it's only the opinions of 2.5 people. As for when people have trashed my ratings, in the past I've had some friends go through and artificially restore the rating back to where it was. One thing I would like to see on the ratings, is how many people have rated the skin.
Likewise, keep the download numbers, it's nice to see that enough people like my stuff to get 20,000 downloads in a month. Even if feedback systems aren't perfect, and they never will be, they're still useful and often brighten someone's day.
I also say keep the top authors section as it is for two reasons. One, it's nice to go into the detailed secion of the top authors and see where you personally rank. Second, it's a good way for newbies to see some really great skins without having to wade through everything. Yes, it artificially inflates their downloads, but I don't really consider that to be a problem.
Same with the top downloads section, yeah sure, some don't really "deserve" to be there, but most do. When I'm just doing a quick pass through the site I'll often visit the top downloads section to see the best stuff of the week. One complaint I do have about the (short list) top downloads section is when more than one element of a suite is on there at a time.
Likewise, keep the download numbers, it's nice to see that enough people like my stuff to get 20,000 downloads in a month. Even if feedback systems aren't perfect, and they never will be, they're still useful and often brighten someone's day.
I also say keep the top authors section as it is for two reasons. One, it's nice to go into the detailed secion of the top authors and see where you personally rank. Second, it's a good way for newbies to see some really great skins without having to wade through everything. Yes, it artificially inflates their downloads, but I don't really consider that to be a problem.
Same with the top downloads section, yeah sure, some don't really "deserve" to be there, but most do. When I'm just doing a quick pass through the site I'll often visit the top downloads section to see the best stuff of the week. One complaint I do have about the (short list) top downloads section is when more than one element of a suite is on there at a time.
Angel_Wings
Reply #39 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:32 PM
Reply #39 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:32 PM
by JamMeister33 - 12/11/2002 1:50:57 AM
Now, don't get me wrong, I am for the rating system; however, I think that once a person who has the privilege of being able to rate a skin has made a choice, they should not be able to go back and change it.
The rating system is being abused by malicious minded people who either have a grudge, or just get a twisted
pleasure out of having the power to negatively influence other people's hard work.
Hmmm. I didn't want to "GO THERE" BUT...This whole stupid thread started from someone who gleefully wrote me that he'd down-rated Bakerstreet's wallpaper out of "revenge"...
Oh the hypocrisy! Rich!
'Tis the Season for folly
Now, don't get me wrong, I am for the rating system; however, I think that once a person who has the privilege of being able to rate a skin has made a choice, they should not be able to go back and change it.
The rating system is being abused by malicious minded people who either have a grudge, or just get a twisted
pleasure out of having the power to negatively influence other people's hard work.
Hmmm. I didn't want to "GO THERE" BUT...This whole stupid thread started from someone who gleefully wrote me that he'd down-rated Bakerstreet's wallpaper out of "revenge"...
Oh the hypocrisy! Rich!
'Tis the Season for folly
Aqua.
Reply #40 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:52 PM
Reply #40 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:52 PM
Jammy, I agree that once a piece has been rated by someone, they shouldn't be able to rate it again. They've done this for the polls, they should be able to do this for ratings as well.
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Reply #21 Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:01 AM