I don't think that would prevent abuses of the 'currying favor' sort, though.

Voting is anonymous in democracies...they have to be. After all, they are a sort of pm.

What honestly should be imo (which doesn't count for all that much) is that the rating should be disabled until the skin is downloaded, and the same for comments. That would somewhat (but not completely) discourage 'drive bys'. In the end, while it's true that disabling anonymity would decrease negative ratings, it wouldn't disable friendly 'high' ratings...in fact, it would overly favor them.

The only real thing people should keep in mind is that they should be fair, constructive and honest...whether you like the work or not, give an honest criticism and hopefully one that can lead to improvement.

If you can't do that, then remember that Moderation sees the voting/ratings...and both Jafo and I.D. see them as well (they are Moderators as well as Admins), and abusers will be making enemies among the wrong people.

Good thought. Keep it up!

I agree 99 percent with the download first, rate second, but, I do like to cast a visual vote based on screeny of Master skins, because I do not purchase(sorry skinners) masters skins, but like to show my support to others skinning by tagging some stars for them, that would stop that. I guess the trade would be fair though, look first, rate later.

Why  is that still scary, even though it is just a thought he is going to have,Have a feeling it still might hurt!

None of that Amazon stuff, I wait long enough to load pages now, don't need more,lol.

On the above post I made I mentioned master skins and ratings.

Elaboration begins.

I said support, but yes, at times may be lack of support depending on the skin screen capture. I try to base it on what is visible, is it creative, unusual, clean, color coordinated, all the key things you are able to get from an image.

With out paying for the skin, I have no other option other than to stay silent, yeah right!

Sometimes I may forgo a vote, because I see nothing that looks new or interesting in the screeny, and rather than be mean, just accept the fact that any skin took effort, any skin took time, and deserves fair judgement, and because I see nothing that looks fantastic or new, does not mean once downloaded it would not impress me as a great skin, so best to not vote or cast a upper star rating( 4 stars),because deep down I as a skinner know how much one puts into a skin, and that is worth something.Something else I utilize for master skins is, most describe the skin well and what os it is for and such, and in my opinion, doing any substyles or multi os is worth a bunch, so much extra work .

Okay, so this is the jist of my involvement with rating or trolling. If i have gone wrong, apologies to all affected.I can't pay five bucks to vote though,lol.

Lastly, I have no clue how any person knows who casts what, but I remember when I started skinning(trying), Ace Matrix gave me a good rating on a skin(vines), and after I pissed everyone off, because I was a know it all, he said in response, You see I gave you a good rating, now that is gone!I never knew how I was supposed to see what he rated and still do not, someone clue me in! Thanks for listening,DT1.

Sorry, but Screenshot rating shouldn't be.  How can one be fair if one doesn't download(in this case buy) the skin and test it before its rated?

That's like me telling someone to buy something that I don't own or have ever used.  Kind of like fraud.

There are times that I've seen a skin uploaded with 1 download and 3 ratings.

A lot of things happen that should not.

Oh that's just poppycock. People download based on the preview. If they don't like the preview, well....

That's like saying you can't tell if a car is good looking or not unless you buy it.

As a skinner (just speaking for myself here), why would I buy a master skin when I'm happy with my own creations. I've only purchased one master skin way back when because it was so ahead of it's time. https://www.wincustomize.com/explore/windowblinds/6336/

As far as tying comments to ratings, I can see a lot of hard feelings over something like that. And when we do we would get jumped upon by the PC police for being insensitive.

gmc, your right, people download based on the preview. I didn't say they shouldn't, how else would they know if they might like it.  After they download and try it they rate.  So how is that poppycock?

Do you buy a car from just looking at it?  Think not, you test drive it.  I think you need to read and understand before you type.

Rating from just looking at the PREVIEW is not a fair rating.  You don't know how it works as you haven't tried it.  So how does one give it a 1, 4, 6,8 or 10?

Absolutely agree. That's why I think that rating and commenting should be enabled only for those who download the skin.

It's just a windowblind. for the most part they all do  the same thing, what sets them apart is the graphics. Well, there are some that add animation to them but they are few and not graphically challenged (such as myself). The preview should represent the graphic overview so the casual observer can determine their interest.

You don't have to test drive a car you think is ugly to be sure it's ugly, c'mon.

Agree, but, that doesn't give you the right to rate it and critique it. It might work just fine, and be technically perfect.

You wouldn't know those things w/o dl and applying it. Those are qualities which deserve attention and critiquing as well. Therefore, w/o dl and applying it, your critique devolves to "I don't like the hue/tone/shade and the buttons." Many skins can be recolored...so, what is your critique worth then?

Hence my comment re enabling rating and commenting/critiquing only after dl. Not perfect, but better than the existing, imo.

and you say this in what capacity again?

I believe that Wincustomize says that I can.

I am glad GMC2 sees my side.

I do not , under normal circumstances , down rate, but try to give some type of opinion in the form of a rating. I usually comment when I vote, so no secret to my opinion.

But, as far as master skins, I am on board with gmc2, why would I pay when I can create. So, being a skinner , with experience, to what level is beside the point, I create decent work, and can tell if someone put extra effort in a skin by a preview for the most part. Is it the same as trying it, of course not, but one who struggles to advance in this site, assumes a master skinner has conquered margins, and settings, and visibility already and so I need not see that. On that note, learning to skin is hard, but thousands do it, so just to replace some images and not try to be different is a big deal to me, anyone can learn the settings part, creative is skinning.

So, I still want to vote without downloading, but not my call.

Lastly, who says a down loader even uses a skin, a friend could just click download, wait a few and then rate or over rate, or down rate if it is not a friend or happy user. Who says every user know a good skin. For most, shiny, new, that's all they need to be content. No offense meant to the users abroad, just something to consider.What good is a vote based on a screeny, about as good as a vote a downloaded skin in my opinion.

Okay, get me now,lol.

I know, shut up already. I have a curious confession.

By that I mean, in the past, and I only recall two occasions, I rated a skin with a one star, they were master skins, but  I honestly felt they looked like nothing special: does not mean not a great skin:, just not extraordinary. The reason for the one star was simple, it seems a vote does not do much to change a rating and some of the skins that just get a ten rating regardless, I felt should be less and in an effort to drive down to a fair(in my opinion) rating, I thought maybe the amount of the star rating difference might make more of an impact on the overall average rating if that is how it is done. I really do not know.

So, confession above and question here, does each star count on it's own, or is it the amount of stars, plus vote casters, to get that total, then averaged?

Last thing, I believe I was malicious, and will cease that from now on, I am sorry but believe it made no difference really, so what harm was done. Harm or not apologies still. But, an auto 10 star rating is unfair also, so we all deserve apologies from someone man. Okay, bye and happy times.

So I guess I should save time and just rate everything from the preview.  If I like the preview give is a good rating and if I don't give it a bad rating.  Hum.  Guess I've been doing it all wrong.

All the comments about the rating system are fine, but let me reiterate that this is thread is about people abusing the system as it currently stands.

What should and shouldn't be allowed is a completely separate topic to what I started.

Nah, you just be doing it the WOM way. It's a Zen thing, just is.

Back on topic...

You know what I really think? Skinning is a community, and as such we should all support each other and treat each other with respect.

Not only is downrating someone else's skin to make your own look better selfish and spiteful, it's disrespectful. Those are your fellow skinners and you treat them like dirt.

In my view anyone who treats their fellow skinners in this manner is not fit to be a part of the community. Forget demotions, I would exile them and have done with it.

This is fuzzy logic if you ask me. Over rating a skin because someone is a friend is just as harmful to other skinners.

I have often felt subject to low ratings because of things I say or because I don't have a gang at wc.I have been told to watch what I say often, and others say what they like.

Well, I say read someones whole post, take it as a whole , not just pick out a line or two, before commenting.

I have , unprompted, been nothing but honest at wc and here in this forum, not for any other reason than that is me, honest.

I honestly believe I have enough experience to judge a skin by it's graphics which need only a visual, and when I am unable to see a skin working because of cost, , this is my option and have been given the right as a member to say my piece, whether or not you all think it is an educated assessment or not.

I said apologies earlier and have no desire to give more. Karma is , get what you give, and based on my karma, I have not been treating anyone like dirt, or no more than others.

You want me to download first , give me free downloads on master skins , if not because I contribute to wc, then just because you get what you want, a download , then a rating, not paying just to opine.

No, dt1. Fuzzy is dead on. I'd only modify his statement to read, "a community of skinners and non-skinners"...the thought though is exactly the same, and it is correct.

Art has been judged on a visual basis since the first time someone said, "Ohh, that's nice".

But, can't even be honest here, so, enjoy yourselves.