The 9 megabit problem (please read)
Monday, November 25, 2002 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Since we moved to the subscription system we've been able to directly see how much bandwidth is used by subscribers/customers versus non-customers/non-subscribers.
Specifically:
Anyone who has purchased Object Desktop or any Stardock product or a WinCustomize subscription or is an apprentice or higher goes to a different high speed server than those who have not.
The problem is, the people who have not bought anything at all are now consuming about 9 megabits per second.
That's 6 T1's being used by people who are essentially non-contributing bandwidth consumers.
That's why the "Server is busy" message is coming up more and more often for these guys.
As you can imagine, 6 T1's of bandwidth is expensive. Especially when, not to use too fine a point, being used largely by free-loaders.
I'm not sure what the solution is. If we cap it, the site becomes unbearably slow and we don't want to punish people who are just trying out this stuff (i.e. legitimately seeing what this is all about versus people who just want to leech off the bandwidth).
Any suggestions?
Specifically:
Anyone who has purchased Object Desktop or any Stardock product or a WinCustomize subscription or is an apprentice or higher goes to a different high speed server than those who have not.
The problem is, the people who have not bought anything at all are now consuming about 9 megabits per second.
That's 6 T1's being used by people who are essentially non-contributing bandwidth consumers.
That's why the "Server is busy" message is coming up more and more often for these guys.
As you can imagine, 6 T1's of bandwidth is expensive. Especially when, not to use too fine a point, being used largely by free-loaders.
I'm not sure what the solution is. If we cap it, the site becomes unbearably slow and we don't want to punish people who are just trying out this stuff (i.e. legitimately seeing what this is all about versus people who just want to leech off the bandwidth).
Any suggestions?
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Frogboy
Reply #122 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:41 PM
Reply #122 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:41 PM
The wallpaper section isn't going anywhere.
We looked at bandwidth usage and while the wallpaper section does us around 10% of the bandwidth, it's not enough to target specifically.
I think what we'll probably do is something like this:
Users without accounts will only be able to download 2 megabytes before they have to create an account.
Once they create an account, they can only download 5 things per day after they've downloaded 10 megabytes of content unless they're a subscriber, apprenctice or higher, or have purchased something.
We looked at bandwidth usage and while the wallpaper section does us around 10% of the bandwidth, it's not enough to target specifically.
I think what we'll probably do is something like this:
Users without accounts will only be able to download 2 megabytes before they have to create an account.
Once they create an account, they can only download 5 things per day after they've downloaded 10 megabytes of content unless they're a subscriber, apprenctice or higher, or have purchased something.
Aqua.
Reply #123 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:44 PM
Reply #123 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:44 PM
Somewhat (but only partially) off topic. http://news.com.com/2100-1023-975320.html?tag=fd_lede1_hed
moshi
Reply #124 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:59 PM
Reply #124 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:59 PM
sounds reasonable to me Frogboy.
as long as i´m still allowed to rant on the messageboard i won´t complain anyways
as long as i´m still allowed to rant on the messageboard i won´t complain anyways
joetheblow
Reply #125 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 3:03 PM
Reply #125 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 3:03 PM
I agree with Lecrayon on the point that you want people to browse and try out parts of the site. That is just good business sence as far as I am conserned.
Wallpapers seem to be the issue here. So why not let it be viewed but not downloaded? People have to sign in to download. Also I think the "freloader" are people who would sign in anyway and suck the life out of the site AND still go to deviant art and deskmod. So a cap would still be in play anyway.
Can't download wallpapers until you sign up and when you do sign up you can only have 5 per day unless your a sunsciber to the site or bought something.
THEN politly ask them to:
Go to DeviantArt!
Go to DeskMod for more!!
Join the Wincutomize Community for more!!!!!!
Or Buy the full version of "whatever_program"
And tell them how they can get all the downloads they want of off this site.
I also think that the Wincustomize store could be beefed up with more stuff. Also with the subscriptions, show all the features they would get for 20 dollars.
Then for the "buggers" who post I HATE THIS SITE or IT USE TO BE FREE!! have a post that always stays on top of the message board or something explaining the situation. I think that is as far as we can go to be polite, after that it is up to them to be apart of the site or not.
Wallpapers seem to be the issue here. So why not let it be viewed but not downloaded? People have to sign in to download. Also I think the "freloader" are people who would sign in anyway and suck the life out of the site AND still go to deviant art and deskmod. So a cap would still be in play anyway.
Can't download wallpapers until you sign up and when you do sign up you can only have 5 per day unless your a sunsciber to the site or bought something.
THEN politly ask them to:
Go to DeviantArt!
Go to DeskMod for more!!
Join the Wincutomize Community for more!!!!!!
Or Buy the full version of "whatever_program"
And tell them how they can get all the downloads they want of off this site.
I also think that the Wincustomize store could be beefed up with more stuff. Also with the subscriptions, show all the features they would get for 20 dollars.
Then for the "buggers" who post I HATE THIS SITE or IT USE TO BE FREE!! have a post that always stays on top of the message board or something explaining the situation. I think that is as far as we can go to be polite, after that it is up to them to be apart of the site or not.
Aqua.
Reply #126 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 3:09 PM
Reply #126 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 3:09 PM
Aqua. to joe
one problem with wallpaper previews, I often use the previews as my wallpaper instead of taking the time to download the zip file. Most people put what is in the zip file into the preview anyway at full size and resolution.
one problem with wallpaper previews, I often use the previews as my wallpaper instead of taking the time to download the zip file. Most people put what is in the zip file into the preview anyway at full size and resolution.
bakerstreet
Reply #127 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 4:20 PM
Reply #127 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 4:20 PM
joetheblow:
Also I think the "freloader" are people who would sign in anyway and suck the life out of the site AND still go to deviant art and deskmod.
wtf are you talking about? I am beginning to see the problem with a lot of the adamant opinions here. WC is a nice place, I like it. In the last few days I have also commented on about 50 peices at devart, and posted a couple of dozen times on their message board. I have commented on stuff at Art Uproar. I visit the other sites more than daily.
That is part of being in a community. It offends me to the core that taking part in other sites is considered to be a betrayal in some way. It is utterly silly that people are acting like there would be no place to get wallpapers or Winamp skins if WC didn't host them.
Get out a little more. There are hundreds of skinnable apps, and there are only a few here. If you "rather like the 'one stop shopping' aspect of WC" then you have a limited shopping list. There are a lot more products out there.
Frogboy: Sounds like a plan to me. Whatever works for WC works for me.
Also I think the "freloader" are people who would sign in anyway and suck the life out of the site AND still go to deviant art and deskmod.
wtf are you talking about? I am beginning to see the problem with a lot of the adamant opinions here. WC is a nice place, I like it. In the last few days I have also commented on about 50 peices at devart, and posted a couple of dozen times on their message board. I have commented on stuff at Art Uproar. I visit the other sites more than daily.
That is part of being in a community. It offends me to the core that taking part in other sites is considered to be a betrayal in some way. It is utterly silly that people are acting like there would be no place to get wallpapers or Winamp skins if WC didn't host them.
Get out a little more. There are hundreds of skinnable apps, and there are only a few here. If you "rather like the 'one stop shopping' aspect of WC" then you have a limited shopping list. There are a lot more products out there.
Frogboy: Sounds like a plan to me. Whatever works for WC works for me.
joetheblow
Reply #128 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 5:00 PM
Reply #128 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 5:00 PM
bakerstreet:
I know there are allot of places to go but I like to roost here.
And I do feel that the people who are downloading the most are the ones who make 3 or 4 accounts just to get as many as they want. Other wise why would this bandwidth thing still be a problem? There are already caps for downloads, why isn't it working?
And I didn't mean to portray my words as "this is the only site in the world" I felt that if people came here and they get a cap tell them about the subscription or tell them about the community and how to help and tell them about other sites like Deviant art to get wallpapers.
When they get the message saying that they reached their limit for the day, tell them and show them that there are other wonderful sites to go to. You can come back tomorrow for more if you want.
Something like that.
Jobeleca:
yeah I noticed the preview sometimes is the wallpaper. Suppossedly the artist should have made a smaller jpg file for the preview instead of the large screensize file.
At any rate, I hope it can be worked out so that people can browse freely while the ones who just want to download bandwidth hoggin stuff all day long without contibuting something to the site can be weeded out.
I know there are allot of places to go but I like to roost here.
And I do feel that the people who are downloading the most are the ones who make 3 or 4 accounts just to get as many as they want. Other wise why would this bandwidth thing still be a problem? There are already caps for downloads, why isn't it working?
And I didn't mean to portray my words as "this is the only site in the world" I felt that if people came here and they get a cap tell them about the subscription or tell them about the community and how to help and tell them about other sites like Deviant art to get wallpapers.
When they get the message saying that they reached their limit for the day, tell them and show them that there are other wonderful sites to go to. You can come back tomorrow for more if you want.
Something like that.
Jobeleca:
yeah I noticed the preview sometimes is the wallpaper. Suppossedly the artist should have made a smaller jpg file for the preview instead of the large screensize file.
At any rate, I hope it can be worked out so that people can browse freely while the ones who just want to download bandwidth hoggin stuff all day long without contibuting something to the site can be weeded out.
Jafo
Reply #129 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 5:11 PM
Reply #129 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 5:11 PM
baker...there IS the thought that WC is the largest 'skinning' site in terms of hits, so perhaps a lot of the visitors don't actually make it to the other sites.
We do, because we are 'within' the community.
It'd be interesting to know how many visitors are 'unique' to Wincustomize alone...
We do, because we are 'within' the community.
It'd be interesting to know how many visitors are 'unique' to Wincustomize alone...
bakerstreet
Reply #130 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 5:17 PM
Reply #130 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 5:17 PM
Jafo:
You know, the other day when Peff and D_S and the rest were nagging me about how I was acting all 'artisty' when I hadn't done anything I thought it was really strange. I have stuff all over the place... I keep finding my old work all over the internet, as a matter of fact, places I never put it
... I'm only starting to put stuff here.
I guess you're right. Shame they don't see what a huge community this is.
You know, the other day when Peff and D_S and the rest were nagging me about how I was acting all 'artisty' when I hadn't done anything I thought it was really strange. I have stuff all over the place... I keep finding my old work all over the internet, as a matter of fact, places I never put it
... I'm only starting to put stuff here.I guess you're right. Shame they don't see what a huge community this is.
Jafo
Reply #131 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:05 PM
Reply #131 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:05 PM
One of the things I'd always be doing when I got some 'know it all' comment on an artwork at Devart was to tootle over and check the bonafides of the commenter...and they'd have a 'finger painting in drool' as their 'piece de resistance' and I'd make some comment like I could do that, too, before his parents were born...
When people only see 'baker, the bloke with 'tude', and don't have a 'history'/portfolio to see to show competence/authority/experience, then you'll get feisty retorts...
When people only see 'baker, the bloke with 'tude', and don't have a 'history'/portfolio to see to show competence/authority/experience, then you'll get feisty retorts...
mickboni
Reply #132 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:05 PM
Reply #132 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:05 PM
I have been reading through this thread and I felt that I wanted to contribute. I am an avid wincustomize user and willing to go to the expense of subscribing simply for one reason: QUALITY! I am a no-good at producing your artwork, yet I have to recognize that skins make PC work more exciting and pleasurable: "giving credit where credit is due." This is the attitude that all users have to adopt. Many artists have given up a lot of their time and work to make some great skins. In a way, evryone has to realize that if the skinning community is to develop and grow, everyone has to contribute. Perhaps I am an optimist, but wincustomize should enhance and offer features that no other sites have even thought of. The question to put into peoples mind is: What am I missing? Perhaps I'm talking a lot of garble, but I want only the best for this site.
Lecrayon
Reply #133 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:14 PM
Reply #133 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:14 PM
Bakerstreet, I understand what you say I was merely talking from WC point of view, that is, try not to have the server busy thing and as a result being confronted with those yelling threads on the message board. This is a thread I have enjoyed giving my 2 cents and what Frogboy came up with sounds good.
I was merely talking from WC point of view, that is, try not to have the server busy thing and as a result being confronted with those yelling threads on the message board. This is a thread I have enjoyed giving my 2 cents and what Frogboy came up with sounds good.
Angel_Wings
Reply #135 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 7:05 PM
Reply #135 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 7:05 PM
Mommmmmmmm! Bakerstreet started it! *kidding*
Honestly, I try not to upload too much work and I try to just keep it at the average res size (1024 x 768) and a jpeg only as to not hog up too many resources (which I wouldn't mind having an "upload" cap for wallpaper submissions).
Ho hum...
Bakerstreet, I'm not the greatest digital artist and it would take years for me to master it with my humble lil' mouse. I still am a much better sculptor with real live clay than I am a painter in real live paint etc. but again... ho hum.
So, I'm just going to smile and say, "I never did mind about the little things."
Dang, I missed the heat of the drama!
TTFN
Honestly, I try not to upload too much work and I try to just keep it at the average res size (1024 x 768) and a jpeg only as to not hog up too many resources (which I wouldn't mind having an "upload" cap for wallpaper submissions).
Ho hum...
Bakerstreet, I'm not the greatest digital artist and it would take years for me to master it with my humble lil' mouse.
I still am a much better sculptor with real live clay than I am a painter in real live paint etc. but again... ho hum.So, I'm just going to smile and say, "I never did mind about the little things."
Dang, I missed the heat of the drama!
TTFN
SkinneRyan
Reply #137 Wednesday, November 27, 2002 5:57 AM
Reply #137 Wednesday, November 27, 2002 5:57 AM
(Firstly, I would like to say that I have only read a quarter of the way down the page, so someone might've already suggested these)
That said, here are my suggestions of what to do
1. Call MS and tell them to make windows use jpg files as backgrounds without turning active desktop on (who seriously thinks they can't do that?). Or maybe they have in XP, I don't know.
2. Do a survey on the site, asking what resolution we use and make people include wallpapers for the 1 or 2 most popular.
I had some more ideas, but I forgot them
That said, here are my suggestions of what to do
1. Call MS and tell them to make windows use jpg files as backgrounds without turning active desktop on (who seriously thinks they can't do that?). Or maybe they have in XP, I don't know.
2. Do a survey on the site, asking what resolution we use and make people include wallpapers for the 1 or 2 most popular.
I had some more ideas, but I forgot them
moshi
Reply #138 Wednesday, November 27, 2002 8:27 AM
Reply #138 Wednesday, November 27, 2002 8:27 AM
Ryan, if you don´t want ActiveDesktop but JPEG wallpapers try one of the wallpaper changing programs.
am excellent freeware is this one: http://www.wallpaperchanger.de/
it supports BMP, JPEG, GIF and PNG, is skinnable and also can make your desktop icon caption background transparent
am excellent freeware is this one: http://www.wallpaperchanger.de/
it supports BMP, JPEG, GIF and PNG, is skinnable and also can make your desktop icon caption background transparent
feline
Reply #139 Wednesday, November 27, 2002 11:12 AM
Reply #139 Wednesday, November 27, 2002 11:12 AM
Jobeleca to feline
Jobeleca - With regards to the argument you mentioned... The solution is for WinCustomize admins to post monthly how much money was taken in via sales and how much was spent on bandwidth, servers, basically on the cost of running the site. As long as the site doesn't show a profit that would kill that argument.
reasonable idea, if the site admins want to publish the money numbers.
the only potential problem with is getting people to read the relevant page
Jobeleca - With regards to the argument you mentioned... The solution is for WinCustomize admins to post monthly how much money was taken in via sales and how much was spent on bandwidth, servers, basically on the cost of running the site. As long as the site doesn't show a profit that would kill that argument.
reasonable idea, if the site admins want to publish the money numbers.
the only potential problem with is getting people to read the relevant page
Frogboy
Reply #140 Wednesday, November 27, 2002 2:03 PM
Reply #140 Wednesday, November 27, 2002 2:03 PM
Wallpapers aren't the issue. There's no magic bullet really. We'll just have to put some cap on how much non-contributors can download per day.
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Reply #121 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:34 PM
Your monthly contest sounds like an excellent idea to me!