The 9 megabit problem (please read)
Monday, November 25, 2002 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Since we moved to the subscription system we've been able to directly see how much bandwidth is used by subscribers/customers versus non-customers/non-subscribers.
Specifically:
Anyone who has purchased Object Desktop or any Stardock product or a WinCustomize subscription or is an apprentice or higher goes to a different high speed server than those who have not.
The problem is, the people who have not bought anything at all are now consuming about 9 megabits per second.
That's 6 T1's being used by people who are essentially non-contributing bandwidth consumers.
That's why the "Server is busy" message is coming up more and more often for these guys.
As you can imagine, 6 T1's of bandwidth is expensive. Especially when, not to use too fine a point, being used largely by free-loaders.
I'm not sure what the solution is. If we cap it, the site becomes unbearably slow and we don't want to punish people who are just trying out this stuff (i.e. legitimately seeing what this is all about versus people who just want to leech off the bandwidth).
Any suggestions?
Specifically:
Anyone who has purchased Object Desktop or any Stardock product or a WinCustomize subscription or is an apprentice or higher goes to a different high speed server than those who have not.
The problem is, the people who have not bought anything at all are now consuming about 9 megabits per second.
That's 6 T1's being used by people who are essentially non-contributing bandwidth consumers.
That's why the "Server is busy" message is coming up more and more often for these guys.
As you can imagine, 6 T1's of bandwidth is expensive. Especially when, not to use too fine a point, being used largely by free-loaders.
I'm not sure what the solution is. If we cap it, the site becomes unbearably slow and we don't want to punish people who are just trying out this stuff (i.e. legitimately seeing what this is all about versus people who just want to leech off the bandwidth).
Any suggestions?
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Aqua.
Reply #102 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:26 PM
Reply #102 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:26 PM
Alternative to limiting non-subscribes to skins and stuff rated above 8, limit them to skins and stuff 5 or under, so when they subscribe they really are receiving better content.
Aqua.
Reply #103 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:27 PM
Reply #103 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:27 PM
Amendment to previous idea, have the top download from each catagory available to everyone as a featured skin. This'll show non-subscribers what kind of stuff is available to subscribers.
feline
Reply #104 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:59 PM
Reply #104 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:59 PM
as soon as you use skin rating to limit access to skins, you can get the "wincustomize is selling my free work for profit" argument all over again 
remember how many times we had this when the subscription was first introduced?
remember how many times we had this when the subscription was first introduced?
Kinrik
Reply #105 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:01 PM
Reply #105 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:01 PM
uh oh, doreenosis has set in...where's the morphine?
no, put the Morpheus back...I said morphINE...
no, put the Morpheus back...I said morphINE...
Kinrik
Reply #106 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:03 PM
Reply #106 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:03 PM
hmm...i forgot about that old point...good one feline... 
Lecrayon
Reply #107 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:06 PM
Reply #107 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:06 PM
I still stand up for all new visitors and potential customers. I like the idea of a free site, and support free access to everything that is available here. Nobody should be sort of forced to buy a subscription, especially when they browse through the wallpaper section. If so many visitors slurp up the bandwidth what would happen if you make them subscribe? There are lots of other sites that have skins to grab from. They turn away...and perhaps the ones that subscribe will be unsatisfied and I bet you get some crazy threads. The only thing that I can think of is limit the number of downloads per person per section. Don't let the majority of visitors bleed for "heavy users".
paxx
Reply #108 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:08 PM
Reply #108 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:08 PM
Jobeleca: "Alternative to limiting non-subscribes to skins and stuff rated above 8, limit them to skins and stuff 5 or under, so when they subscribe they really are receiving better content."
Sorry but I think this is a loser of an idea. Even with your addendum, i would lead people to believe most skins here are crap.
Sorry but I think this is a loser of an idea. Even with your addendum, i would lead people to believe most skins here are crap.
Aqua.
Reply #109 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:10 PM
Reply #109 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:10 PM
Aqua. to feline
With regards to the argument you mentioned... The solution is for WinCustomize admins to post monthly how much money was taken in via sales and how much was spent on bandwidth, servers, basically on the cost of running the site. As long as the site doesn't show a profit
that would kill that argument.
With regards to the argument you mentioned... The solution is for WinCustomize admins to post monthly how much money was taken in via sales and how much was spent on bandwidth, servers, basically on the cost of running the site. As long as the site doesn't show a profit
that would kill that argument.
Aqua.
Reply #110 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:12 PM
Reply #110 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:12 PM
Aqua. to paxx
Good point, an alternative is to let them see all the previews, but only download the skins below a certain rating.
BTW, do you really mean: "i would lead people to believe most skins here are crap."?
Good point, an alternative is to let them see all the previews, but only download the skins below a certain rating.
BTW, do you really mean: "i would lead people to believe most skins here are crap."?
mormegil
Reply #111 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:28 PM
Reply #111 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:28 PM
With a subscriber only section, we could make it optional, if you post in that section, yo won't have the your selling my work argument, becuse we will have agreed to it when we posted.
bakerstreet
Reply #112 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:33 PM
Reply #112 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:33 PM
If you want to fix something that has weakened, look at what it was originally designed to do and compare it to what it's trying to do.
If every site has to be 'everything to everyone', then this isn't much of a community. I don't think anyone can outdo the big bitbuckets at hosting wallpapers and the mega apps. Be better at what they aren't being better at.
The problem isn't that people aren't paying, it is that some non-paying sections are costing too much. Why not use the site as a incubator for smaller skinnables, and therefore skinning, with the main SD apps as it's cashflow? If a non-SD section is too big of a drain, replace it; the app doesn't *need* promotion any longer.
If Stardock apps alone are too big of a drain, then WC isn't necesarily the problem. Stardock was hosting them before WC.
My post is up there, and I stand by it. Considering I was the first one to espouse removing the wallpaper section, I'm the cause for all the ashes and sackcloth. My advice would be to get over it.
Oh, and get rid of the wallpaper section.
(the preceding statement was made to give the weepy something to do while I am taking a nap.)
If every site has to be 'everything to everyone', then this isn't much of a community. I don't think anyone can outdo the big bitbuckets at hosting wallpapers and the mega apps. Be better at what they aren't being better at.
The problem isn't that people aren't paying, it is that some non-paying sections are costing too much. Why not use the site as a incubator for smaller skinnables, and therefore skinning, with the main SD apps as it's cashflow? If a non-SD section is too big of a drain, replace it; the app doesn't *need* promotion any longer.
If Stardock apps alone are too big of a drain, then WC isn't necesarily the problem. Stardock was hosting them before WC.
My post is up there, and I stand by it. Considering I was the first one to espouse removing the wallpaper section, I'm the cause for all the ashes and sackcloth. My advice would be to get over it.
Oh, and get rid of the wallpaper section.
(the preceding statement was made to give the weepy something to do while I am taking a nap.)
bakerstreet
Reply #114 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:38 PM
Reply #114 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:38 PM
Lecrayon: "They turn away..." to who? Enemies? I hate the idea that somehow someone going to Devart or Deskmod is a defeat for WC. If you guys aren't comfortable going to other sites, I feel for ya, but most of use go to all of them anyway.
Aqua.
Reply #115 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:47 PM
Reply #115 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:47 PM
Aqua. to mormegil
Isn't that what the little box is for you can check whether or not stardock can your your skins on CD's? That box is basically asking whether or not you want them to sell your stuff.
Aqua. to bakerstreet
I say keep the wallpaper section. The wallpapers are much much better than I've been able to find elsewhere, and consistantly so. That alone is a strong argument for keeping the section. Also, without the wallpaper section the number of logon and wb themes will decrease as the wallpapers are often an ispiration and much to the work.
Isn't that what the little box is for you can check whether or not stardock can your your skins on CD's? That box is basically asking whether or not you want them to sell your stuff.
Aqua. to bakerstreet
I say keep the wallpaper section. The wallpapers are much much better than I've been able to find elsewhere, and consistantly so. That alone is a strong argument for keeping the section. Also, without the wallpaper section the number of logon and wb themes will decrease as the wallpapers are often an ispiration and much to the work.
Chef Garry
Reply #116 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:48 PM
Reply #116 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:48 PM
Lecrayon - sure, it would be great to leave it as it is but that is no longer viable. In a perfect world and all that. To say that it should all be free to whomever wants it ignores the problem Brad identified in the beginning.
Lecrayon
Reply #117 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:00 PM
Reply #117 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:00 PM
To chef Gary...I didn't say to leave it as it is..I gave some thoughts how to possibly handle overloads somewhere in the thread..
To Bakerstreet: not enemies, they (visitors) will most likely not want to browse to this site anymore...
To Bakerstreet: not enemies, they (visitors) will most likely not want to browse to this site anymore...
bakerstreet
Reply #118 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:16 PM
Reply #118 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:16 PM
Lecrayon: That's an odd conclusion. Why exactly are they browsing here now? There is no Talisman section, and yet here I am. Assuming that people will just refuse to come here if they can't get everything they need isn't logical. They can't get everything they need now. As a matter of fact it is a pain to upload skins to 5 or 6 duplicate sections on different sites.
I'll say it again. If this is a community, and not a competition, then there would be no defeat in people going to other sites to get some things.
I'll say it again. If this is a community, and not a competition, then there would be no defeat in people going to other sites to get some things.
Carlitus
Reply #119 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:30 PM
Reply #119 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:30 PM
My first upload in Wincustomize (and on any skinsite) was a wallpaper. It was not the best, but encouraged me to make my first zoomer.
Ok, ok, the walpapers aren't allways the first works of a customizer, and.... i recognize that i never created a zoomer if i not visited the mormegil website and readed their tutorials.
I guess Wincustomize is a site of Stardock products. Is a good idea to have a section for mediaplayers, but maybe only for WMP (winamp have their skin site at deskmod i guess).
It will be a Wallpaper section. The actual section is highly 'modered'. I don't know how to limit this section. Maybe the 'Monthly contest' will be good: just adding the best wallpapers! Sometimes i wish to search a good wallpaper, and i stop because this section is very big!
It will be a good point to limit the downloads to free visitors, but the free visitors will only download the featured/most downloaded skins. A best idea will be the 'Credits': it will be needed a free account to download, then you get a credit (for example 10000 'wincusters'), any time you make a download, the credit amount decreases (400 for fetaured skins/40 for non featured skins). Of course, the Stardock/Wincustomize buyers have unlimited credit.
Ok, ok, the walpapers aren't allways the first works of a customizer, and.... i recognize that i never created a zoomer if i not visited the mormegil website and readed their tutorials.
I guess Wincustomize is a site of Stardock products. Is a good idea to have a section for mediaplayers, but maybe only for WMP (winamp have their skin site at deskmod i guess).
It will be a Wallpaper section. The actual section is highly 'modered'. I don't know how to limit this section. Maybe the 'Monthly contest' will be good: just adding the best wallpapers! Sometimes i wish to search a good wallpaper, and i stop because this section is very big!
It will be a good point to limit the downloads to free visitors, but the free visitors will only download the featured/most downloaded skins. A best idea will be the 'Credits': it will be needed a free account to download, then you get a credit (for example 10000 'wincusters'), any time you make a download, the credit amount decreases (400 for fetaured skins/40 for non featured skins). Of course, the Stardock/Wincustomize buyers have unlimited credit.
JamMeister33
Reply #120 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:31 PM
Reply #120 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:31 PM
by JourneyMan pjpowell - 11/26/2002 11:27:16 AM
JM: The crying reference was not aimed at you. Only the first bit about not using a wall was. I just got a bit irked by your statement that skins would be nothing without a wall. It's true that a wallpaper can certainly complement a skin but most good skins can stand without a wallpaper.
Okay, my mistake then... maybe I'm a little too thin skinned (small pun there)
JM: The crying reference was not aimed at you. Only the first bit about not using a wall was. I just got a bit irked by your statement that skins would be nothing without a wall. It's true that a wallpaper can certainly complement a skin but most good skins can stand without a wallpaper.
Okay, my mistake then... maybe I'm a little too thin skinned (small pun there)
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Reply #101 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:24 PM
Yeah, there might be benefits, but they can be achieved much more easily and effectively via other methods discussed.