The 9 megabit problem (please read)
Monday, November 25, 2002 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Since we moved to the subscription system we've been able to directly see how much bandwidth is used by subscribers/customers versus non-customers/non-subscribers.
Specifically:
Anyone who has purchased Object Desktop or any Stardock product or a WinCustomize subscription or is an apprentice or higher goes to a different high speed server than those who have not.
The problem is, the people who have not bought anything at all are now consuming about 9 megabits per second.
That's 6 T1's being used by people who are essentially non-contributing bandwidth consumers.
That's why the "Server is busy" message is coming up more and more often for these guys.
As you can imagine, 6 T1's of bandwidth is expensive. Especially when, not to use too fine a point, being used largely by free-loaders.
I'm not sure what the solution is. If we cap it, the site becomes unbearably slow and we don't want to punish people who are just trying out this stuff (i.e. legitimately seeing what this is all about versus people who just want to leech off the bandwidth).
Any suggestions?
Specifically:
Anyone who has purchased Object Desktop or any Stardock product or a WinCustomize subscription or is an apprentice or higher goes to a different high speed server than those who have not.
The problem is, the people who have not bought anything at all are now consuming about 9 megabits per second.
That's 6 T1's being used by people who are essentially non-contributing bandwidth consumers.
That's why the "Server is busy" message is coming up more and more often for these guys.
As you can imagine, 6 T1's of bandwidth is expensive. Especially when, not to use too fine a point, being used largely by free-loaders.
I'm not sure what the solution is. If we cap it, the site becomes unbearably slow and we don't want to punish people who are just trying out this stuff (i.e. legitimately seeing what this is all about versus people who just want to leech off the bandwidth).
Any suggestions?
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JamMeister33
Reply #82 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:09 AM
Reply #82 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:09 AM
I think that's very reasonable T-man. As I recall though, I WAS required to create an account before I could dl more than one item. Of course, deleting the cookie then allowed me to download one more. I did this several times before I created an account.
JamMeister33
Reply #83 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:10 AM
Reply #83 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:10 AM
Well, it was just a thought Koasati, and perhaps not such a good one 
JamMeister33
Reply #84 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:26 AM
Reply #84 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:26 AM
JamMeister33 needs massive amounts of coffee to kick brain into gear
feline
Reply #85 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:43 AM
Reply #85 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:43 AM
KarmaGirl - Yep, I meant all that to sound cynical. I don't say much that is negative on this site, but this type of "discussion" really gets my undies in a bunch.
feline
very well said!
Lecrayon - I don't think this *test* is useful..there must be other ways to tackle traffic jam.
remember, this is only for 24 hours, and this *has* happened before, when the bandwidth was maxed out.
also, without trying things, how are the admins to work out what is using the most bandwidth?
feline
very well said!Lecrayon - I don't think this *test* is useful..there must be other ways to tackle traffic jam.
remember, this is only for 24 hours, and this *has* happened before, when the bandwidth was maxed out.
also, without trying things, how are the admins to work out what is using the most bandwidth?
Dangeruss
Reply #86 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:46 AM
Reply #86 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:46 AM
I have no idea if this would help opr hinder, but as long as it's free discussion...
How about turning WinCustomize into a monthly webzine for non-subscribers. Feature only 30 days worth of submissions, much like some of the art groups do. Have a submission deadline, and hold the submissions until the 'publication' date. New visitors likely won't care since it's all new to them. Subscribers get immediate access to skins.
Feature only the current issue skins for non-subs. "Back-issue" access requires a subscription or CD archive purchase. Newspapers do this regularly, limiting the archive to fee paying subscribers. CNN limits video feeds to subscribers...
Just ideas - shoot 'em fulla holes now
How about turning WinCustomize into a monthly webzine for non-subscribers. Feature only 30 days worth of submissions, much like some of the art groups do. Have a submission deadline, and hold the submissions until the 'publication' date. New visitors likely won't care since it's all new to them. Subscribers get immediate access to skins.
Feature only the current issue skins for non-subs. "Back-issue" access requires a subscription or CD archive purchase. Newspapers do this regularly, limiting the archive to fee paying subscribers. CNN limits video feeds to subscribers...
Just ideas - shoot 'em fulla holes now
Dangeruss
Reply #88 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:48 AM
Reply #88 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:48 AM
Hmmph... "opr" = "or" Who put hose keys so close together anyway ?
Kinrik
Reply #89 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:50 AM
Reply #89 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:50 AM
just out of curiosity...why are we limiting what the freeloaders see to the best of the best? (this may only be wp related, as i don't know if they have limitations on seeing ratings of 8 or higher on all skins as well).
Why don't we go the other way and limit what htey see to sevens and below. If they want the best, they can prove it is worth it to them by doing whatever the steps are to see those skins/walls.
Are the high graded items the ones with the most d/l's or not? Just wondering...
Why don't we go the other way and limit what htey see to sevens and below. If they want the best, they can prove it is worth it to them by doing whatever the steps are to see those skins/walls.
Are the high graded items the ones with the most d/l's or not? Just wondering...
KarmaGirl
Reply #90 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:53 AM
Reply #90 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:53 AM
Jafo, 'undies in a bunch' (when it happens to you) is not a good thing (the vision of 'undies in a bunch' may be, though 
)
(the vision of 'undies in a bunch' may be, though 
)
feline
Reply #91 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 11:05 AM
Reply #91 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 11:05 AM
Dangeruss - How about turning WinCustomize into a monthly webzine for non-subscribers. Feature only 30 days worth of submissions, much like some of the art groups do.
interesting idea.
one possible problem is:
is the bulk of the downloading of new skins, or is it spread out across new and old?
obviously if it is mainly focused on the latest updates, this will have only limited effect.
feline decides to give up thinking about bandwidth
instead, i am going to construct mental images of "undies in a bunch", far more fun!
interesting idea.
one possible problem is:
is the bulk of the downloading of new skins, or is it spread out across new and old?
obviously if it is mainly focused on the latest updates, this will have only limited effect.
feline decides to give up thinking about bandwidth
instead, i am going to construct mental images of "undies in a bunch", far more fun!
pjpowell
Reply #92 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 11:27 AM
Reply #92 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 11:27 AM
JM: The crying reference was not aimed at you. Only the first bit about not using a wall was. I just got a bit irked by your statement that skins would be nothing without a wall. It's true that a wallpaper can certainly complement a skin but most good skins can stand without a wallpaper.
Kinrik
Reply #93 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 11:31 AM
Reply #93 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 11:31 AM
i guess it depends on your personal preferences. my walls are usually covered with games running at home, but i still like a good wall. and i don't have many skinned apps running, anywhere. but i still like the occassional one, like sysmetrix and such.
mormegil
Reply #94 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:05 PM
Reply #94 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:05 PM
Humm, here is one thing I have been thinking of for a while, though I don’t think it would help to much, as far as the freeloaders go. I am in agreement that to download you should have to sign up for an account. (it is free after all)
Why don’t we create a subscriber only section of the site. That way those of us, like myself, could post their work for other subscribers. I would be willing to do this more often then not, since I am a big supporter of the site.
This would have two side effects.
1) It would make a way for some of us to help the site build subscribers. (this could help pay for the bandwidth)
2) it would make sure the people who are paying for the bandwidth are the ones using it.
One last thought, I could live without the wallpaper section, but I think that there should be a way for wallpapers to be included in suites, think of Copperplate II with no wall. It would be sad.
This would have two side effects.
1) It would make a way for some of us to help the site build subscribers. (this could help pay for the bandwidth)
2) it would make sure the people who are paying for the bandwidth are the ones using it.
One last thought, I could live without the walpaper section, but I think that there should be a way for walpapers to be inclused in suites, think of Copperplate II with no wall. It would be sad.
Why don’t we create a subscriber only section of the site. That way those of us, like myself, could post their work for other subscribers. I would be willing to do this more often then not, since I am a big supporter of the site.
This would have two side effects.
1) It would make a way for some of us to help the site build subscribers. (this could help pay for the bandwidth)
2) it would make sure the people who are paying for the bandwidth are the ones using it.
One last thought, I could live without the wallpaper section, but I think that there should be a way for wallpapers to be included in suites, think of Copperplate II with no wall. It would be sad.
This would have two side effects.
1) It would make a way for some of us to help the site build subscribers. (this could help pay for the bandwidth)
2) it would make sure the people who are paying for the bandwidth are the ones using it.
One last thought, I could live without the walpaper section, but I think that there should be a way for walpapers to be inclused in suites, think of Copperplate II with no wall. It would be sad.
Chef Garry
Reply #95 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:05 PM
Reply #95 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:05 PM
Some incredibly bright people here! So many thoughts, it's hard to keep it all straight but here goes.
I agree with BakerStreet's original post for the most part. WinAmp and WMP don't need the space. Granted the low level of downloads make it a minor issue but perhaps here there could be simply a link to refer to other sites?
I do agree with Boxxi et al as regards removing the wallpaper section - too important. Yeah there are lots of places to get walls but not of the high quality we enjoy here. Only showing the top 20 or so to non-registered users might help, pretty much as Jobeleca suggests.
I found the discussion that BakerStreet raised about the restaurant give-aways and LeCrayon's comments about business principles particularly interesting. On the one hand, as LeCrayon states, you never want to chase business (especially established customers) away. On the other hand, someone who only comes for the freebies isn't a customer, only a drain on resources. In any restaurant, if a customer only wants the freebies without spending any money, they will be asked to leave. You'll get a rash of "how dare you limit/cut off my ability to download" posts. The appropriate response IMO is "register or piss-off".
Karmagirl - any discussion of this nature will have a certain amount of passionate discussion but I'd like to believe for the most part it is simply a matter of stating how important these issues are - not attacks. Brad shows a great deal of confidence in the community (skinmunity?) here and I think the serious users appreciate his attitude.
No suggestions unfortunately, just supporting the views I find most relevant.
I agree with BakerStreet's original post for the most part. WinAmp and WMP don't need the space. Granted the low level of downloads make it a minor issue but perhaps here there could be simply a link to refer to other sites?
I do agree with Boxxi et al as regards removing the wallpaper section - too important. Yeah there are lots of places to get walls but not of the high quality we enjoy here. Only showing the top 20 or so to non-registered users might help, pretty much as Jobeleca suggests.
I found the discussion that BakerStreet raised about the restaurant give-aways and LeCrayon's comments about business principles particularly interesting. On the one hand, as LeCrayon states, you never want to chase business (especially established customers) away. On the other hand, someone who only comes for the freebies isn't a customer, only a drain on resources. In any restaurant, if a customer only wants the freebies without spending any money, they will be asked to leave. You'll get a rash of "how dare you limit/cut off my ability to download" posts. The appropriate response IMO is "register or piss-off".
Karmagirl - any discussion of this nature will have a certain amount of passionate discussion but I'd like to believe for the most part it is simply a matter of stating how important these issues are - not attacks. Brad shows a great deal of confidence in the community (skinmunity?) here and I think the serious users appreciate his attitude.
No suggestions unfortunately, just supporting the views I find most relevant.
Chef Garry
Reply #97 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:10 PM
Reply #97 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:10 PM
Paul, I like the suscribers' only section. Possibly it could be visible to all users but only suscribers can download? That might encourage the new visitor to subscribe.
mormegil
Reply #98 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:12 PM
Reply #98 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:12 PM
Good Idea, I dont know how many of us would contibute to it, but it would be nice to have it a option.
Aqua.
Reply #99 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:15 PM
Reply #99 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:15 PM
Dangeruss, sorry, but I think that wincustomize as a webzine is a loser of an idea. I like how it is now.
Aqua.
Reply #100 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:20 PM
Reply #100 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:20 PM
Chef Garry - I agree with BakerStreet's original post for the most part. WinAmp and WMP don't need the space. Granted the low level of downloads make it a minor issue but perhaps here there could be simply a link to refer to other sites?
Sorry, but think this is also a loser of an idea. It would remove valuable content that isn't taking up much space or bandwidth. There's absolutely no need to remove any of the sections that receive low traffic, because it would not affect the problems we're experiencing simply because they're such a small portion of the site.
Sorry, but think this is also a loser of an idea. It would remove valuable content that isn't taking up much space or bandwidth. There's absolutely no need to remove any of the sections that receive low traffic, because it would not affect the problems we're experiencing simply because they're such a small portion of the site.
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Reply #81 Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:08 AM
Koasati goes to delete them anyway.
Or should I delete everything that doesn't get many downloads (all of my stuff)?