To The People Who Run Wincustomize.com
Friday, August 23, 2002 by Pete Constanteas | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Dear Sirs,
I tried to download a skin from your excellent site and I was informed that I had already downloaded over 100 MB. Then, I was asked to register and become a member in order to help you run the site and everything.
Well, I wasn’t actually asked. I was TOLD. And since I have no intention to pay for services that never had a price tag to begin with, I prefer not to visit your site again. Me and some 30 others who are facing the same problem. Perhaps hundreds or even thousands more I don’t even know.
Of course, you realize there are many ways I could have overcome this little problem. I could use another name, for instance. Or another computer. I don’t want to stoop to such methods. But you know something? I thought neither would you.
We are all enthusiastic users. It’s an honor visiting a site as wonderful as yours, but it’s also an honor for you, to have people visit and upload skins that, after all, make your trade. More or less, I’m asked to pay for downloading skins (one of them could be mine, if I decided to make one) that were uploaded without any fee. Is this fair? Is this right? Is this contrary to the spirit of sharing and enjoying or not?
So, I will wait to see if your decision will be upturned. I am sure you will see the injustice and change course. Let people who want to subscribe do so. Offer more incentives. Offer a lower price. But let the rest use a site that, after all, promotes the spirit of free art and co-operation.
I remain confident in you and your concept
Pete, Citizen to you who lately was the victim of a coup d’ etat…
I tried to download a skin from your excellent site and I was informed that I had already downloaded over 100 MB. Then, I was asked to register and become a member in order to help you run the site and everything.
Well, I wasn’t actually asked. I was TOLD. And since I have no intention to pay for services that never had a price tag to begin with, I prefer not to visit your site again. Me and some 30 others who are facing the same problem. Perhaps hundreds or even thousands more I don’t even know.
Of course, you realize there are many ways I could have overcome this little problem. I could use another name, for instance. Or another computer. I don’t want to stoop to such methods. But you know something? I thought neither would you.
We are all enthusiastic users. It’s an honor visiting a site as wonderful as yours, but it’s also an honor for you, to have people visit and upload skins that, after all, make your trade. More or less, I’m asked to pay for downloading skins (one of them could be mine, if I decided to make one) that were uploaded without any fee. Is this fair? Is this right? Is this contrary to the spirit of sharing and enjoying or not?
So, I will wait to see if your decision will be upturned. I am sure you will see the injustice and change course. Let people who want to subscribe do so. Offer more incentives. Offer a lower price. But let the rest use a site that, after all, promotes the spirit of free art and co-operation.
I remain confident in you and your concept
Pete, Citizen to you who lately was the victim of a coup d’ etat…
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slinky1947
Reply #62 Saturday, August 24, 2002 10:08 PM
Reply #62 Saturday, August 24, 2002 10:08 PM
I have purchased so much software I wouldn't want to to know the total. I do so because it's the quality I'm looking for and enjoy. But like anything else, you get what you pay for. That's the way it is. Have purchased a few of these seperately and finally purchased OB and glad I did but didn't HAVE TO. I don't skin, yet but someday. I consider using the skins and all the bells and whistles, this site provides, as a hobby and something I enjoy! I can't think of too many hobbies that don't cost something. I am so glad this site is here and appreciate all the artists who contribute their talents.
Frogboy
Reply #63 Saturday, August 24, 2002 10:49 PM
Reply #63 Saturday, August 24, 2002 10:49 PM
I pretty much sum it up here:
http://draginol.stardock.com/Articles/Thereisnosuchthingsasafre.html
Users don't pay for skins. Users who are using the resources of this site (Bandwidth, CPU resources, database resources, etc.) the most are asked to contribute something back.
That something doesn't have to be money. It can come in the form of contributing skins, themes, icons, etc. It can come in the form of becoming an active participant on the message boards.
A community is supposed to be about people helping and sharing with each other. The people who thus far have complaine dthe loudest have tended to be the ones who want to take on an unlimited basis without ever contributing something back.
Heck, even if that isn't enough, there's the basic issue that to get to 100 megabytes of stuff you're probably using a warez'd or unregistered shareware version of the program you're using those things on which in itself is kind of crummy.
http://draginol.stardock.com/Articles/Thereisnosuchthingsasafre.html
Users don't pay for skins. Users who are using the resources of this site (Bandwidth, CPU resources, database resources, etc.) the most are asked to contribute something back.
That something doesn't have to be money. It can come in the form of contributing skins, themes, icons, etc. It can come in the form of becoming an active participant on the message boards.
A community is supposed to be about people helping and sharing with each other. The people who thus far have complaine dthe loudest have tended to be the ones who want to take on an unlimited basis without ever contributing something back.
Heck, even if that isn't enough, there's the basic issue that to get to 100 megabytes of stuff you're probably using a warez'd or unregistered shareware version of the program you're using those things on which in itself is kind of crummy.
joetheblow
Reply #64 Saturday, August 24, 2002 10:51 PM
Reply #64 Saturday, August 24, 2002 10:51 PM
ok I had to come back for this one... he answers one question "Neowin"... what about "Deviant art"?
what about the contributing COMMENTS?
What about maintainance of the site? What does Noewin have?? Database is quite large? true... what other problems are they facing?
did I mention if you COMMENT on skinners work you wouldn't have a cap?
Is there a reason why my questions gt ignored? am I writing to much??? What about all the other reasons why a site this large should ask for COMMENTS ON SKINS???
this is what I wrote ealier:
yes it is sad things are not just for "free". I understand the "commercilization" of skinning your talking about. That is a issue by itself, but what does that really have to do with maintaining a site< or paying for bandwidth? If your point is that your willing to deal with downtime or not being able to upload or download works, or get pop up adds, and so one... plus..PLUS not everyone would like that they are being slapped with ads or asked to "please" donate. Not all people even DONATE!! ANYTHING at all. Nada, what about those who just download and say or do nothing to help COMENT on skinners work???
I left a post in the other thread in the hopes that somebody comes up with real data as to why wincustomize should not aks people to comment on skinners work or help skinners or buy a browser that gives you more then you spend.
20 dollars??? for 2 years?? come on. they even now let you try it for freee....
I don't know about you but I want to help and I do so by COMMENTING on WORKS...
--------
I think you have a point and your trying to make it but you need more evedince. Examples, understanding of database design... something and not just a comment off the top of your head about a site who most likely had many problems that you never saw because you were to busy downloading.
what about the contributing COMMENTS?
What about maintainance of the site? What does Noewin have?? Database is quite large? true... what other problems are they facing?
did I mention if you COMMENT on skinners work you wouldn't have a cap?
Is there a reason why my questions gt ignored? am I writing to much??? What about all the other reasons why a site this large should ask for COMMENTS ON SKINS???
this is what I wrote ealier:
yes it is sad things are not just for "free". I understand the "commercilization" of skinning your talking about. That is a issue by itself, but what does that really have to do with maintaining a site< or paying for bandwidth? If your point is that your willing to deal with downtime or not being able to upload or download works, or get pop up adds, and so one... plus..PLUS not everyone would like that they are being slapped with ads or asked to "please" donate. Not all people even DONATE!! ANYTHING at all. Nada, what about those who just download and say or do nothing to help COMENT on skinners work???
I left a post in the other thread in the hopes that somebody comes up with real data as to why wincustomize should not aks people to comment on skinners work or help skinners or buy a browser that gives you more then you spend.
20 dollars??? for 2 years?? come on. they even now let you try it for freee....
I don't know about you but I want to help and I do so by COMMENTING on WORKS...
--------
I think you have a point and your trying to make it but you need more evedince. Examples, understanding of database design... something and not just a comment off the top of your head about a site who most likely had many problems that you never saw because you were to busy downloading.
joetheblow
Reply #65 Saturday, August 24, 2002 11:04 PM
Reply #65 Saturday, August 24, 2002 11:04 PM
I just also want to say that I appreiciate you actuall coming back to say something in responce to why your commenting they way you are Sir mgorbach, because most people who comment like this just leave without really discussing the merrit of there argument
I might just stop by and see if you can answer any of the questions I posted. By the way, if you thought I just believed wincust when they wanted money, I didn't. I wanted to start my own ite and found out what it costs. My advise is to start there for some of your answers to the statement you posed. And try to get some info on data managent or see how hard it is to skin something and not get any COMMENTS.. sorry for shouting... just wanted your attention.
----------------------
BTW
Don't know if I should mention this but as a person who loves this site and somewhat addicted to skins and skinning myself I have been to most of the popular sites many times. I'll just say the downloads I have far surpass 100mb!!! but I bought OD and for other sites.... here it comes
I COMMENT ON WORK!!!
take a look at some responces I got back just for commenting
http:/joetheblow.deviantart.com
It's ok to disagree, but it is better to come with some information to back up the argument. I look forward to your repsonce on the message board.
P.S.
I think by commenting so many time here tecnically you should be eligable for unlimited downloads... isn't that ironic???
I might just stop by and see if you can answer any of the questions I posted. By the way, if you thought I just believed wincust when they wanted money, I didn't. I wanted to start my own ite and found out what it costs. My advise is to start there for some of your answers to the statement you posed. And try to get some info on data managent or see how hard it is to skin something and not get any COMMENTS.. sorry for shouting... just wanted your attention.
----------------------
BTW
Don't know if I should mention this but as a person who loves this site and somewhat addicted to skins and skinning myself I have been to most of the popular sites many times. I'll just say the downloads I have far surpass 100mb!!! but I bought OD and for other sites.... here it comes
I COMMENT ON WORK!!!
take a look at some responces I got back just for commenting
http:/joetheblow.deviantart.com
It's ok to disagree, but it is better to come with some information to back up the argument. I look forward to your repsonce on the message board.
P.S.
I think by commenting so many time here tecnically you should be eligable for unlimited downloads... isn't that ironic???
Frogboy
Reply #66 Saturday, August 24, 2002 11:14 PM
Reply #66 Saturday, August 24, 2002 11:14 PM
The real question in my mind boils down to this:
Why should the people who have contributed to the community (whether it be registering software, creating skins, helping out users and skinners, etc.) have to subsidize users who are usually using warez copies of software on an indefinite basis?
I am a bit surprised that someone would use Neowin as an example of a site that is running "fine". I think Neobond would disagree (and if we could run WC on a 1.5 megabit connection instead of a 20 megabit connection then we wouldn't be having this discussion).
Why should the people who have contributed to the community (whether it be registering software, creating skins, helping out users and skinners, etc.) have to subsidize users who are usually using warez copies of software on an indefinite basis?
I am a bit surprised that someone would use Neowin as an example of a site that is running "fine". I think Neobond would disagree (and if we could run WC on a 1.5 megabit connection instead of a 20 megabit connection then we wouldn't be having this discussion).
Kinrik
Reply #67 Monday, August 26, 2002 12:08 AM
Reply #67 Monday, August 26, 2002 12:08 AM
you know...you could follow in microsoft's footsteps (with a twist) and have a strict activation code, where you monitor all activation accounts and serial numbers (I don't know what you use now, never bought any software from ya'll, sorry to admit that)...anyways, when they go for the upgrade, have it verify the old serial number and have a database query who the number was issued to and when, among other things (ip address, os, etc...there is a ton of data you can pull from a standard install, even online during d/l from an active html page, even with the cookies and java off)...
well, maybe I shouldn't have brought this back to the top again, but I wanted to give the "legitimates" some ideas...maybe there is a fresh one in there somewhere...
well, maybe I shouldn't have brought this back to the top again, but I wanted to give the "legitimates" some ideas...maybe there is a fresh one in there somewhere...
Frogboy
Reply #68 Monday, August 26, 2002 12:27 AM
Reply #68 Monday, August 26, 2002 12:27 AM
Seems like the current way is pretty easy as it does't affect many people.
If we're taking heat over something as benign as a 100 meg download limit on people who haven't registered their software, you can imagine the reaction to anything else.
If we're taking heat over something as benign as a 100 meg download limit on people who haven't registered their software, you can imagine the reaction to anything else.
mormegil
Reply #70 Monday, August 26, 2002 1:08 AM
Reply #70 Monday, August 26, 2002 1:08 AM
I am so tired of this, I am just going to skip any further threads on this subject. If you don’t like the way this site is run, then go, and stop burning up bandwidth.....
PS. I Post quite a bit of work here, and I am proud of the way it is represented buy this site. That is my vote on the mater.
Good night, Good by, or good riddance. Which ever is appropriate?
PS. I Post quite a bit of work here, and I am proud of the way it is represented buy this site. That is my vote on the mater.
Good night, Good by, or good riddance. Which ever is appropriate?
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Reply #61 Saturday, August 24, 2002 9:22 PM