By the time you make your phone call a gun could be produced in defense...for people here it's a no brainer.

Well again...the people not doing the shooting are the ones who are well aware of how bad the laws are...but they are in no position to change them. It's just like when the news reports how "Americans" have this big love affairs with oil...which is just a crock of shit...we have no other current choice...giver us a better choice and we'll gladly switch over. It's real easy to pick on Americans when your not getting the truth.

And I can promise you...if gun owners were the ones writing the laws things would be very different.

The bottom line though...man up all you want...stop denying all you want...nothing is going to change in regards to people getting killed...if some nut job is bent on killing a large group of people they will find another way to accomplish their goal. Your going after the wrong people as usual. Every time something like this happens the hysterics begin and everyone goes after the easy target. It's the damn gun owners...circular reasoning...yeah that's it.

And there is a huge difference between collectors and your average gun owner...anyone can buy a gun...not everyone should be sold one.

I see no reason for a person to have an automatic rifle to go hunting with.  Ya shoot a dear and what will ya have left!  The only reason for an automatic is to kill people.  So ban them.

I have a winchester 308 (7.62)rifle, glock semi-auto 45 and a glock semi-auto 9mm.  Do I want to give those up, NO.  Am I going to go shoot up a school, NO. 

Drunk drivers kill as many people as these rare shooting by idiots.  Shall we bad cars and trucks or try and ban alcohol again.

I can apply for a liciense to buy a fully automatic weapon but I don't see the need.  Like I said above, they are only good for one thing.

If there was a total ban on weapons, there would be a run on street pieces.  And there will be plenty to buy.  Would be just like drugs, sold on every corner.

And the use of the Glock semi-autos is.....?

....and they need to be self-loaders because?

5.9 in every 100,000 suicide by gun each year.  There are 300 million Americans.... that's quite a useful tool for 18000 suicides p/a.

Every home should have one....

Like a mix-master...

Ya don't need a gun to kill yourself.  And I do not feel for those people.  Ya want to kill yourself then do it.  Sure beats killing a bunch of children.  Whats the difference in a semi auto and a six shooter.  They both set up the next round.  By the way, the 308 is a semi auto also.  5 round clip.  I hate bolt action rifles.  Takes your eye and weapon off the game.  Forgot, your answer will be ya don't need a six shooter either.

Too right you are...

If you look up a bit earlier in the thread you'll see I once shot a 'possible' [that's 10 bulls] at 600 yards. [the 2 sighting shots were an inner and a bull].

This was done at the ripe old age of 16 ..... no scopes etc....just a plain peep sight ...single shot bolt action...no magazine....each bullet was removed from the box one at a time...oiled up with gluck loaded and fired...then repeat.  10 'kills' at a 1/3 of a mile.

You do NOT 'need' self-loading firearms at all.

In a war, yes....

I'am happy that the world is so concerned with how we run our country.  I'am more concerned with the mass killings thats happening in Africa and the killing in the middle east as thats an on going thing, not something that happens now and again, because americans want to keep their guns. 

As much as I wanted to be done with this thread.....here I am again. I just have a few points to make:

1: It may at one time been true that the "vast majority" of gun owners were very competent and responsible. Fear, panic, popularity of violent movies, gangs, end of days wackos, etc. has, I believe swung this in the opposite direction. I doubt the "vast majority" has even fired the weapon they own. In most cities, there isn't even a safe, legal place to practice anyway so it ends up on the nightstand or under a sofa cushion "just in case"

2: I learned to shoot with a single shot .22 cal rifle and single shot .410 shotgun. Accuracy wins over quantity every time. There has always been a restriction here in Illinois limiting shotguns to 3 rounds when hunting (called a plugged gun). If you can't hit an unarmed duck, squirrel or rabbit with 3 rounds of 12 gauge.....let the damn thing go. Bow and black powder seasons here show that you can indeed put meat on the table without an AR15 or AK47. My "Dream gun" is a Thompson/Center single shot, not a Thompson Sub Machine Gun. If I did have to shoot someone, I'd prefer to not shoot 5 of my neighbors while I'm at it.

3: Muzzle-loaders, the guns of our forefathers, and the guns of today are indeed far apart in lethality. Any Indian worth his beads could out shoot in quantity and accuracy a muzzled loaded weapon holder.........by at least 6 arrows to one round. The point here is the shear number of firearm wielding white people was their undoing, not how many lead balls were fired at them by each gun.  The repeating rifle and Gatling gun weren't really needed, we had them outnumbered, starving and on the run by the time those came along.

4: Legitimate gun collectors, or at least the few I had in my family, had historic or unique weapons... most all were rendered unable to fire in a way that did not reduce their value. You can't shoot anyone with a gun with no firing pin or a blocked chamber. That is a "responsible" way to collect them.

"5.9 in every 100,000 suicide by gun each year.  There are 300 million Americans.... that's quite a useful tool for 18000 suicides p/a."

That only takes one round, what are you going to do with the remaining 16 bullets in the gun?

Mental health issues are swept under the rug here. Did anyone read the links I provided earlier? Our good Governor is closing down the few sources left for those who need help the most. We can't afford them he says. I ask, can we afford  to NOT have them?

Peace, everyone. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, etc. etc. etc.

I don't give a *** how you run your country. I am, however, concerned about the murder of innocent kids no matter what country they are from.

Isn't that the "american way"?   Always being concerned with how others are running theirs?  I guess when the shoe is on the other foot it doesn't feel so good eh?   

OK, can someone please KILL this thread now, it serves no useful purpose anyway, it started out with idiotic and stupid comments from idiotic and stupid Twitter users who are probably also idiotic and stupid Facebook users too and has blossomed into complete uselessness.

I made my point prior on this gun stuff and I am done with it now, and I wish everyone else was too. Let us instead remember those who lost their lives and pray for their families instead.

EX-Fucking-Scuse me?

People got all hell bent when something derogatory about Aussies was said.

You owe American's an apology for that remark!

Indeed: Empathy. Compassion.

The OP.

Actually, it's quite enlightening....just how the attitudes towards gun proliferation within the US differ so profoundly between those within the US and those without.

It truly must be social conditioning over several centuries and definitely not something that can be turned around to the benefit of all, not when those who would benefit cannot see a problem, no matter how bluntly it is pointed out to them.

Those 'idiotic facebook users' from the OP are merely symptomatic of the cancer undermining modern society....perhaps they'll be the next 'generation' of child killers.... it won't be 'caused' by some satanic message in a heavy metal song when played backwards...it'll because they wake up and discover Beiber is a no-talent wanker....

Am I the only one that noticed that the_Monk's avatar appears to be holding a rifle?

I made the first post on here which I thought was related to the thread. Have read most of what has been taking place. Just realized only a small part was taken out of my post like "Things will get better in time"

Here is what it's actually related to

"I know what it feels like to lose someone that meant everything to me and it hurts. Things will get better in time but all involved will never forget and those that care about people and didn't lose a loved one in this event will never forget." This is the full part and so it's understood a bit better I would like to explain what it was meant to be taken as but really it is what it says if a small part wasn't used.

The pain of losing a loved one is great. However in time it does ease and life will continue but it never goes away. So as bad as the pain is now it will ease or get better in time but you will never forget your loved one. Hope this clears that up.

I haven't taken part in any of this crap that has been posted because my views on if you should have a gun or not is my business only and don't feel it's something that needs to be debated. Just sit back and read all that was posted again, post after post. Now there are WC or if you wish to call it internet friends going after each other. This really makes for a fine community. This thing has gone beyond a difference of opinions or debate as surely you can see some hatred in here now. In my five years I have seen a lot of threads shut down that had a lot less shit on them that is taking place here. Why do I keep reading, I will tell you. I started to see some anger building between people and continued to follow this in hopes it would calm down but actually it keeps getting worst.

This was posted under the Twitter listing       "If you see people laughing and acting happy, ask them "Have you heard what happened in Newtown, Connecticut?". Odds on the answer will be, "Huh?". If after you tell them, they respond blithely: Run!"

I went to an event last night and must have talked to 40 people or more. Was there some laughing going on, sure. however just mention the tragic situstion that just took place and anyone you talked to said things like "so sad" "what the families must be going through has to ab so bad" Many, many more things along those lines. Did life stop, no but believe when you or people mentioned it to you it was sincere. So I'm not on Twitter but this is part of what the World is made of and if you look at the profile pictures looks like most are young people or kids. But I expect that the percentage is so very, very small that aren't affected this and other tragic events. If someone asks me who I voted for I don't tell them for fear of a fight. when I don't say there is no problem but if I were to say and they voted for the other guy something will be said as to why I voted for who I did than a verbal war breaks out. Really nothing wrong with saying "I don't think people should have guns" or "I think there is nothing wrong with people having guns" Conversation over but we all know it isn't because at least one and sometimes both think they have to have the last word. That is what this thread has become, hatred to be honest and not a debate.

Dave, no it hasn't.

No-one is antagonistic towards another individual ....only the ideology of gun ownership and/or control.

I'm stating the [general] views held by possibly 95% of the planet who own 50% of the guns whilst fellowmembers here are stating the [general] views held by 5% of the planet who own 50% of the guns.

The views are quite different as are the stats re ownership.

************************

If the thread went south I'd be the first to close it, but it hasn't [yet].  Considering the apparently diametrically-opposed opinions held/expressed it's akin to the extremities of a Right-to-life debate, yet it's still cordial.

Will a discussion change anything? No.  Debates about anything seldom do more than fan the wind.

10 pages ago I said....'just one less gun in the world is one less gun that can do this' and the footage of people making use of the buy-back schemes is heartening...but more than countered by the rush by others to arm themselves MORE.

It's a culture of self-destruction..... but that's their choice.

OK, if you say so. I would just hate it if WC members decided not to talk to one another over something like this.

However I will take your experience in these matters and trust it.

95% of the published views in western countries maybe. 

the people of the only direct democracy on this planet think different. link

also i don't think anybody in this thread did enough research to speak about the views of people in South America, Africa, Eastern Europe and Asia. just think about how widespread celebratory gunfire is in many regions of the world.

I have a daughter about to start school in January so this event affected me and my wife quite a lot even though we live safe and sound in the UK. I simply cannot contemplate how anyone could harm small children at such an innocent age under any circumstances.

Anyway. That's not why I've decided to add to this lengthy thread.

In spite of the fact that I'm not at all keen on gun ownership I am also not very much against it, it seems to me that the rush to ban personal weapons is actually a non sequitur.

I am old enough to remember a time when events like this just didn't happen in the US and just about everyone had guns then too so it seems to me that it's something else that has changed to make people commit these awful crimes. If so the American political establishment needs to stop trying to score points off the opposing factions and get to the bottom of why. I have my own theories and what worries me so deeply is that the possible causes have taken root here too; may God protect my daughter.

I'm old enough [almost] to remember when even world wars were fought predominantly with single shot bolt action rifles....

It is still incongruous why modern military standard weapons are even available to the general population.

Why does ANY American citizen allow any OTHER American citizen to have an M4 carbine?