Again...
Tuesday, July 2, 2002 by adni18 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Someone who thinks that he is a God or Art master or I don’t know what, he just visit the wallpaper section and he has put to almost all wallpapers the lowest rates! I think he have done it to WindowBlinds section too!
I don't know if this action is for laugh or cry, but someone (maybe you Pat
), must have a look at this phenomenon 
The intentions for the rating system are good, but some people are not! I am sorry to say that, but it is a fact.
So many kind and interesting people in WinCustomize, I wonder why they are permitting some brainless minority, (maybe 5 people at most), to spoil the image of the site.
I don't know if this action is for laugh or cry, but someone (maybe you Pat
), must have a look at this phenomenon 
The intentions for the rating system are good, but some people are not! I am sorry to say that, but it is a fact.
So many kind and interesting people in WinCustomize, I wonder why they are permitting some brainless minority, (maybe 5 people at most), to spoil the image of the site.
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adni18
Reply #62 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 3:38 PM
Reply #62 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 3:38 PM
Thank you Lecrayon 
I appreciate any comment, criticism or hint, but I don't appreciate at all the anonymous and without any comment bad rattings.
Even the dull and ignorant, they too have something to teach us!
I appreciate any comment, criticism or hint, but I don't appreciate at all the anonymous and without any comment bad rattings.
Even the dull and ignorant, they too have something to teach us!
T-Man
Reply #63 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 4:10 PM
Reply #63 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 4:10 PM
T-Man wonders if everyone that advocates 'forced comments with a rating' if they actually comment every time they give a rating?
Chef Garry
Reply #64 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 5:27 PM
Reply #64 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 5:27 PM
Well T-Man, there is a good point about forced comments, particularly poor ratings. If someone doesn't like a wall or skin and wants to rate it poorly, surely it's reasonable for the author to have some idea why. OTH, forced comments doesn't stop someone from rating a skin as 1 and commenting "it sucks", does it? 
Aside - I cannot figure out how y'all get the coloured print. Is there an icon for pouting?
Aside - I cannot figure out how y'all get the coloured print. Is there an icon for pouting?
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #65 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 5:35 PM
Reply #65 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 5:35 PM
Fuzzy Logic still thinks this thread will never reach a satifactory conclusion - too many opinions
snarph
Reply #66 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 5:42 PM
Reply #66 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 5:42 PM
the joy of produceing art alone should surfice. but being creative people recongnition seems to carry a heavy weight!
I like every thing at this site some a whole lot more the others. to bad some one or some thing is makeing every one so un happy. any time people are createing its a good thing to be nutured not played with dont let the situation bring you down
I like every thing at this site some a whole lot more the others. to bad some one or some thing is makeing every one so un happy. any time people are createing its a good thing to be nutured not played with dont let the situation bring you down
Lecrayon
Reply #67 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 6:13 PM
Reply #67 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 6:13 PM
Objectively speaking T-man, what is the true idea behind ratings..Is it the popularity? I understand popular skins attract visitors and that's where you can commercialize other peoples work. I wouldn't mind if I were a payed skinner. But since I like to share what I create it is a bit sour getting a 3 so that it will not be displayed (or was that a bug too). ROFL
I have to agree with Paxx's thought about criteria for rating. In galleries you are able (if you are qualified) to see whether a work is done poorly or with good technique. You will know, even if it's not your own taste. You will still give it a good mark because you know. If it is bad you will be able to tell why. The same goes for WC, I hope. If it's poor, you tell how to make it better. If it is good, you say it is good, but maybe improve here and there..That's how I see it. That's how people can grow. Just rating doesn't say a thing, and again, to me it is about popularity. Can this community get better? Yes, I think so, but it can't if people just push buttons, download and delete.
I have to agree with Paxx's thought about criteria for rating. In galleries you are able (if you are qualified) to see whether a work is done poorly or with good technique. You will know, even if it's not your own taste. You will still give it a good mark because you know. If it is bad you will be able to tell why. The same goes for WC, I hope. If it's poor, you tell how to make it better. If it is good, you say it is good, but maybe improve here and there..That's how I see it. That's how people can grow. Just rating doesn't say a thing, and again, to me it is about popularity. Can this community get better? Yes, I think so, but it can't if people just push buttons, download and delete.
Lecrayon
Reply #69 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 6:38 PM
Reply #69 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 6:38 PM
Aaaah, I have to correct myself about the displaying. You can edit your account and choose displaying ratings with 1 and higher...
BoXXi
Reply #70 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 6:41 PM
Reply #70 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 6:41 PM
"I think the worst thing, someone can do, is to put a rate 1-3 to some author's work."
by Master adni18 - 7/3/2002 2:24:17 PM
Adni, are you saying that you never rated anyone's work this low?
by Master adni18 - 7/3/2002 2:24:17 PM
Adni, are you saying that you never rated anyone's work this low?
Jafo
Reply #71 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 8:19 PM
Reply #71 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 8:19 PM
I once rated one of treetog's WB skins a '2'....not because it 'derserved' a '2', but because, to treetog's standards of skinning prowess it didn't 'deserve' a '10', which was where it was at. The '10' appeared in this case to be more of a 'it's treetog's...it's gotta be a 10, then'.....my input pushed him down to a '8' or '9', which was more 'appropriate' as, in treetog's high standards, it wasn't his 'best'.
This sort of thing can be a legitimate reason for 'strangely' odd ratings being applied by an individual.
However, if it were possible to actually 'know' who rated what to whom.....I'm willing to bet that there'd be a lot of back-stepping to justify ratings of others' works....
I've also kicked in a fair few '10's to 'repair' some decidedly odd scores obviously done with a degree of malicious intent.
It is specifically our direct responsibility to NOT abuse the system for nefarious reasons. We pride ourselves on being mature and responsible, and I hope we all can sleep well in the knowledge that we in no way are being hypocritical.....you can fool some of the people some of the time....etc....
This sort of thing can be a legitimate reason for 'strangely' odd ratings being applied by an individual.
However, if it were possible to actually 'know' who rated what to whom.....I'm willing to bet that there'd be a lot of back-stepping to justify ratings of others' works....
I've also kicked in a fair few '10's to 'repair' some decidedly odd scores obviously done with a degree of malicious intent.
It is specifically our direct responsibility to NOT abuse the system for nefarious reasons. We pride ourselves on being mature and responsible, and I hope we all can sleep well in the knowledge that we in no way are being hypocritical.....you can fool some of the people some of the time....etc....
migellito
Reply #72 Thursday, July 4, 2002 1:02 AM
Reply #72 Thursday, July 4, 2002 1:02 AM
ok.. above i asked 'do you feel it's empirically wrong to give low ratings?'
most said no, only if it's done maliciously. i think this is far rarer than most may think. i'd bet the vast majority of ratings are given honestly. see a skin you thought was neat, but it was rated low? maybe so. somebody found something wrong with it, that perhaps you overlooked. it happens
some said yes, low ratings should never be given. i see this as blatently dishonest. as jafo says above, it is our responsibility to not abuse the system. i feel this includes lying about your true evaluation of a piece, merely to avoid denting someone's ego. an artist must.. must be able to handle criticism. and yes, even without a comment, it's a valid criticism. this all brings me to several points:
:: ratings are not for the authors' benefit. comments are.
:: many are taking ratings waaaay too personally.
:: the 'tweaking' jafo speaks of above is his responsibility as an admin. don't try this at home
some pieces of mine that i feel represent my best work got some of my worst grades. they're hanging in my home, and the homes of others right now. but i didn't go back to the class and complain about the bad grade
on ratings in general:: accept it, it's most likely a completely fair and accurate assessment. don't worry about it. if you like, read the comments and use them to help you grow in your art. best advice? grow in your art the same way other artists do.. experience the world, and practice
most said no, only if it's done maliciously. i think this is far rarer than most may think. i'd bet the vast majority of ratings are given honestly. see a skin you thought was neat, but it was rated low? maybe so. somebody found something wrong with it, that perhaps you overlooked. it happens
some said yes, low ratings should never be given. i see this as blatently dishonest. as jafo says above, it is our responsibility to not abuse the system. i feel this includes lying about your true evaluation of a piece, merely to avoid denting someone's ego. an artist must.. must be able to handle criticism. and yes, even without a comment, it's a valid criticism. this all brings me to several points:
:: ratings are not for the authors' benefit. comments are.
:: many are taking ratings waaaay too personally.
:: the 'tweaking' jafo speaks of above is his responsibility as an admin. don't try this at home
some pieces of mine that i feel represent my best work got some of my worst grades. they're hanging in my home, and the homes of others right now. but i didn't go back to the class and complain about the bad grade
on ratings in general:: accept it, it's most likely a completely fair and accurate assessment. don't worry about it. if you like, read the comments and use them to help you grow in your art. best advice? grow in your art the same way other artists do.. experience the world, and practice
Lecrayon
Reply #74 Thursday, July 4, 2002 4:09 AM
Reply #74 Thursday, July 4, 2002 4:09 AM
Criticism without saying why isn't a valid one...It's just because of the consequences, because there will likely a debate about it. When I exhibit work and someone says : "It sucks" I shrug my shoulders...If someone says "wow brilliant" I do the same.
paxx
Reply #75 Thursday, July 4, 2002 6:55 AM
Reply #75 Thursday, July 4, 2002 6:55 AM
It's certainly neither fair nor accurate, but I accept it. I'll never like them and will never lose a chance to say it every time the opportunity will be given.
So accept that too, although you may not like it either.
So accept that too, although you may not like it either.
migellito
Reply #76 Thursday, July 4, 2002 1:47 PM
Reply #76 Thursday, July 4, 2002 1:47 PM
i think it is valid lecrayon.. if a movie bombs at the box office, the studio may not know why, but it's still a valid criticism by the audience. in a judged olympic event, they don't have to explain why they give an athlete a 2.5 or a 9.9, but it's still completely valid.
i think everyone 'wants' comments, and often when we want something but aren't getting it, we find a way to label it as unfair. of course, this isn't necessarily the case.
not accurate? perhaps not perfectly, but the more ratings something gets the more accurate it'll get. and looking through the sections, they're pretty 'on.'
not fair? i don't understand.. everyone has an equal chance. the only way it could be 'unfair' is if some people's ratings counted more than others, or if ratings couldn't be given to some people's work. go rate my work. give it a 1 if you like.. it'll count just like everbody else's.
people 'want' comments. when we want something but aren't getting it, it's very common to find a way to label it as unfair. i have to explain this to my son a lot he says it's 'no fair' when i say no to more candy. i explain to him that he might not like it, but it's completely fair.. his sister didn't get any more candy than he did.
the bottom line, as i said above, is that people shouldn't take the ratings so personally. they're not there for the benefit of the artist.. the comments are, and you just have to take those as you can get them. if i had a show in a gallery, and constantly went up to people asking for their detailed opinion of my work, i'll bet their detailed opinion of me would drop pretty drastically
i think everyone 'wants' comments, and often when we want something but aren't getting it, we find a way to label it as unfair. of course, this isn't necessarily the case.
not accurate? perhaps not perfectly, but the more ratings something gets the more accurate it'll get. and looking through the sections, they're pretty 'on.'
not fair? i don't understand.. everyone has an equal chance. the only way it could be 'unfair' is if some people's ratings counted more than others, or if ratings couldn't be given to some people's work. go rate my work. give it a 1 if you like.. it'll count just like everbody else's.
people 'want' comments. when we want something but aren't getting it, it's very common to find a way to label it as unfair. i have to explain this to my son a lot
he says it's 'no fair' when i say no to more candy. i explain to him that he might not like it, but it's completely fair.. his sister didn't get any more candy than he did.the bottom line, as i said above, is that people shouldn't take the ratings so personally. they're not there for the benefit of the artist.. the comments are, and you just have to take those as you can get them. if i had a show in a gallery, and constantly went up to people asking for their detailed opinion of my work, i'll bet their detailed opinion of me would drop pretty drastically
Lecrayon
Reply #77 Thursday, July 4, 2002 1:49 PM
Reply #77 Thursday, July 4, 2002 1:49 PM
paxx, words right out of my mouth.. I too have said what I think about these systems...and I think also Davad70 is right.
I too have said what I think about these systems...and I think also Davad70 is right.
paxx
Reply #80 Thursday, July 4, 2002 3:49 PM
Reply #80 Thursday, July 4, 2002 3:49 PM
migellito, this is just a friendly discussion, and my comments here have no intention than simply get my view accross. I do not mean to convince you, but to explain how I feel.
Why I think it's not fair: because every person rates according to different standards, criterias. What you look for in a good skin may be different than what somebody else looks for. I have explained this before.
Why I think it's not accurate: many reasons, first because of the same reason I gave above, and second because there are not enough ratings. Most skins get between 2 and 4 rates. Some rare ones get 5 or 6.
But there is something I don't understand. How do you, or other people decide on the rating a skin gets? I know for myself that without a grid, I find it completely impossible to make any difference between two ratings. Really, without a grid, I can only give 3 ratings: "I don't like", "I don't care", or "I like". I could never even begin to see if I should give a 6 or a 7 to a skin. Or an 8 or a 9... How i can you do it and be consistant? Are you sure that a skin you rated 7 today is less good than a skin you rated 8 last week or last month?
You mentioned the Oympics. What sport do judges not have to follow specific criterias to judge? Most sport have a list of things to look for, every "fault" gets a deduction.
Why I think it's not fair: because every person rates according to different standards, criterias. What you look for in a good skin may be different than what somebody else looks for. I have explained this before.
Why I think it's not accurate: many reasons, first because of the same reason I gave above, and second because there are not enough ratings. Most skins get between 2 and 4 rates. Some rare ones get 5 or 6.
But there is something I don't understand. How do you, or other people decide on the rating a skin gets? I know for myself that without a grid, I find it completely impossible to make any difference between two ratings. Really, without a grid, I can only give 3 ratings: "I don't like", "I don't care", or "I like". I could never even begin to see if I should give a 6 or a 7 to a skin. Or an 8 or a 9... How i can you do it and be consistant? Are you sure that a skin you rated 7 today is less good than a skin you rated 8 last week or last month?
You mentioned the Oympics. What sport do judges not have to follow specific criterias to judge? Most sport have a list of things to look for, every "fault" gets a deduction.
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Reply #61 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 2:53 PM